Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by winorloose)
    I had forgottern that Patrick was welsh. I remembered that he had been born on the mainland, assumed (never a good idea) that he was english.

    I am aware of the entire Irish connection. I think that St George was adopted during the 100 years war by English soldiers: probably connected to his patronage of soldiers. I'm still not sure why England has a patron saint anyway: sainthood is a Catholic doctrine and not really supported by Protestantism (as far as I am aware).

    The paddy reference was a joke, and not intended to be derogratry.
    England was catholic until Henry VIII so England's patronage of St.George obviously dates back to a time before Henry told the pope where to get off!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    England was catholic until Henry VIII so England's patronage of St.George obviously dates back to a time before Henry told the pope where to get off!
    Actually Henry VIII was Catholic as well; he did not support protestantism. The Church of England was Catholic until his son Edward VI came to the throne and was influenced by people such as Thomas Cranmer, and his uncle Edward Seymour, who were protestant into publishing the Book of Common Prayer etc.

    Interestingly it would take another 70 years before a monarch who grew up under the Cof E would sit on the throne.

    I just found it a little surprising that some of the herdline presbyterians did not abolish St George as patron saint.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by winorloose)
    Actually Henry VIII was Catholic as well; he did not support protestantism. The Church of England was Catholic until his son Edward VI came to the throne and was influenced by people such as Thomas Cranmer, and his uncle Edward Seymour, who were protestant into publishing the Book of Common Prayer etc.

    Interestingly it would take another 70 years before a monarch who grew up under the Cof E would sit on the throne.
    OK. You're obviously a bit more up on this than me!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    OK. You're obviously a bit more up on this than me!
    Nothing more than a little google can do (OK i kinda knew the basics, and looked up Edward VI for confirmation: its amazing how little knowledge is actually needed to sound convincing )
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by winorloose)
    Actually Henry VIII was Catholic as well; he did not support protestantism. The Church of England was Catholic until his son Edward VI came to the throne and was influenced by people such as Thomas Cranmer, and his uncle Edward Seymour, who were protestant into publishing the Book of Common Prayer etc.

    Interestingly it would take another 70 years before a monarch who grew up under the Cof E would sit on the throne.

    I just found it a little surprising that some of the herdline presbyterians did not abolish St George as patron saint.
    I thought Henry made it C of E so he could marry Anne Boleyn?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gimp)
    I thought Henry made it C of E so he could marry Anne Boleyn?
    And then chop off her head.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    And then chop off her head.
    Yes then Catherine of Aragon turned it back to catholic and killed all the protestants then Elizabeth I made it protestant again and didn't mind the catholics too much.

    That's what I thought anyway
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Gimp)
    Yes then Catherine of Aragon turned it back to catholic and killed all the protestants then Elizabeth I made it protestant again and didn't mind the catholics too much.

    That's what I thought anyway
    And then Oliver Cromwell ransacked all the churches and burned everyone who's eyes he thought were too close together. Now when was that again? (God, my history stinks! :rolleyes: )
    • Very Important Poster
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Gimp)
    Yes then Catherine of Aragon turned it back to catholic and killed all the protestants then Elizabeth I made it protestant again and didn't mind the catholics too much.

    That's what I thought anyway
    Wasn't it Queen Mary who turned it catholic again (she was on the throne between Henry's little boy and Lizzy I)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    Wasn't it Queen Mary who turned it catholic again (she was on the throne between Henry's little boy and Lizzy I)
    what is st.patricks day?
    • Very Important Poster
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by visual123)
    what is st.patricks day?
    today
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    Wasn't it Queen Mary who turned it catholic again (she was on the throne between Henry's little boy and Lizzy I)
    Yes you're right, Bloody Mary, I'm getting confused Catherine was one of the wives.
    • Very Important Poster
    • PS Reviewer
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Very Important Poster
    PS Reviewer
    (Original post by Gimp)
    Yes you're right, Bloody Mary, I'm getting confused Catherine was one of the wives.
    I always got muddled between Queen Mary and Mary Queen of Scots (who ended up being the mum of the bloke who took over when lizzy died whatsisname James I (or VI of scotland)).

    :confused:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    happy paddys day :cool:
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    Are you sure he was born in Wales? I just read one article (catholic forum) that says he was born between 387-390 in Scotland (as Maewyn Succat) and died 461-464 at Saul, County Down, Ireland and another (Irish clans) that says

    ..........he was almost certainly not born in Ireland, but more likely England, or Brittany in France, about 387 AD. We get this information from his own 'Confessio' (Confession) or 'magnum opus' which tells us much about his life.

    St.George was not "some random hero" either. Though little is really known of him it seems he was actually a Roman soldier who spent some time in England.

    According to the apocryphal Acts of St George current in various versions in the Eastern Church from the fifth century, George held the rank of tribune in the Roman army and was beheaded by Diocletian for protesting against the Emperor's persecution of Christians. George rapidly became venerated throughout Christendom as an example of bravery in defence of the poor and the defenceless and of the Christian faith.

    George was probably first made well known in England by Arculpus and Adamnan in the early eighth century and the Acts of St George, recounted his visits to Caerleon and Glastonbury while on service in England.

    So, I think there's more of a real connection between England and St.George than your "random hero" idea would suggest.
    I've never read anything about George suggesting that he had visited England, hence my view. However, I accept that it is entirely possible as events this early are hard to seperate into fact and fiction.

    Likewise for Patrick - everything I've read suggested he was born in Wales. Although, where he was born is not really relevant. The point is - he spent much of his life devoted to changing our country.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    I've never read anything about George suggesting that he had visited England, hence my view. However, I accept that it is entirely possible as events this early are hard to seperate into fact and fiction.

    Likewise for Patrick - everything I've read suggested he was born in Wales. Although, where he was born is not really relevant. The point is - he spent much of his life devoted to changing our country.
    Quite so. I think actual birthplace of a country's patron Saint is a bit irrelevent to be honest.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    Quite so. I think actual birthplace of a country's patron Saint is a bit irrelevent to be honest.
    To be honest it isn't relevant that St. George didn't have strong links with England. He sounded like a good man, so be proud.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    To be honest it isn't relevant that St. George didn't have strong links with England. He sounded like a good man, so be proud.
    I am.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Howard)
    I am.
    No doubt. But there seem to be some people (not necessarily on this forum) who believe that it is stupid having someone non-English as their patron saint - which, in itself, is ridiculous.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    No doubt. But there seem to be some people (not necessarily on this forum) who believe that it is stupid having someone non-English as their patron saint - which, in itself, is ridiculous.
    Well, the patron saint of Poland is "Black Mary" don't you know. I don't think she was Polish though!
 
 
 
Poll
“Yanny” or “Laurel”
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.