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Western Imperialism: The reason for growth of radical islam and poor muslim lands watch

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    Many non-muslims have a misconception of why muslim lands are in such bad conditions, constantly engaging in extreme violence, and their hatred towards the West. Many blame the islamic texts for the reason.

    The evidence appears to disagree with this notion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojC0uY5cW8

    Is the West and its imperialism the blame for the growth of radical islam and the establishment of poor and conflicting muslim states?

    Let's have a dialogue.
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    Not being able to watch the video, I can't really comment on it.

    But to blame a lack of progress on singular factors is missing a more complex issue at hand. Be that factor Islam, western influences or what have you.

    Radical Islam and it's growth is exasperated by past and current imperialism, but likewise the structure and basis of Islam itself provides the foundations for this. It medieval europe, the structure of the church allowed christianity to be used as a method of control in the way it was. The reformation fractured the way christianity was seen by it's adherents and forever reduced the power the clergy had over the populous. This did not happen to such a degree in the Islamic world however, in part due to previous problems of instability and natural climate.
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    It may well be, though it hardly excuses some of the deplorable acts I had the pleasure to witness.

    Though what was Islams excuse when the Caliphates murdered, raped and conquered for hundreds of years?
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    (Original post by Syrokal)
    It may well be, though it hardly excuses some of the deplorable acts I had the pleasure to witness.

    Though what was Islams excuse when the Caliphates murdered, raped and conquered for hundreds of years?
    Where the hell did you get that Islamic Caliphates murdered and raped? The Islamic Caliphate was ruled by Shariah Law which is against rape and murder and both had the death penalty. When you are talking about conquering land, when the state expanded the people themselves accepted it and wanted Islam to rule them because they saw how just the ruling was, the Jews of Southern Europe wanted the Muslims to come there and get rid of the oppression from the Christians which we did. Crime and Poverty were virtually eradicated because the state knew it had a duty upon its people to serve them and not to control them which is the complete opposite today. When the muslims conquered new land it wasn't to take its resources and suck it dry like our modern states do (e.g. go into Iraq take all the oil) but instead it was to fairly distribute and give resources to the poor places they conquered.

    So please, learn history before making false judgments about what the caliphate was all about.
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    I would imagine that "Western imperialism" is partly to blame, most certainly. It defines the discourse that surrounds the entire debate, forcing our thoughts down certain lines and allows us to accept certain actions whilst damning others. The process of abusing the East for its resources has deep roots in Western society and I don't really see that changing any time soon, unfortunately.
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    Doubtless radical Islam does flourish in highly adverse coniditions, just as we see more fundamentalist versions of Christianity flourishing in various African states.

    However to simply blame Imperialism is a very superficial view to take, the massive failures of many such states are down to a complex set of issues with no single issue as the distinguishing feature.
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    Western influences may be one of the causes but influences of Islam probably aren't helping.
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    I believe all the problems the muslim world faces today can be easily solved with the rise of the Islamic State similar to the Ottaman State. The reasons are all there in history, of how when Europe was living in the dark ages, the muslims would flourish and advance rapidly, I think it was the CEO of HP, that said that without the research the muslims did under the islamic state, we wouldnt have any of the technology we have today. The reason for this was because the base of the Islamic State is the Quran which specifically encourages the people to think and for this certain policies are put in place to allow people to think, ponder and advance, such as free education, today universities cost around 9000 pounds a year, the first universities that were set up were in Baghdad, Morroco, Southern Spain (when it was muslim) and they were all free because then it would allow the people to gain knowledge and contribute to society.

    To talk about western influence, I think this is one of the only reasons why the muslim world is failing. Lets look at Pakistan for example, a country that has one of the world largest armys, one of the worlds largest coal, oil and uranium exporters is in such dire poverty, why? Western Multinational Corporations thats why. The pakistani govt. lives in riches whilst the rest starve because of this western capitalist system. I could give more examples but the bottom line is Capitalism has failed the muslim world, its time the Muslims take on board back the system they originally had.
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    I do believe this to be correct, but I don't believe it is the only factor. I also heavily blame a lack of education in several "Muslim" countries, both religious and academic.
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    (Original post by Al-Fatihah)
    Many non-muslims have a misconception of why muslim lands are in such bad conditions, constantly engaging in extreme violence, and their hatred towards the West. Many blame the islamic texts for the reason. The evidence appears to disagree with this notion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojC0uY5cW8Is the West and its imperialism the blame for the growth of radical islam and the establishment of poor and conflicting muslim states? Let's have a dialogue.
    very rarely, if at any time, is a youtube clip empirical proof of anything. However in terms of extreme violence, poverty and gorwth of islam within the worlds poorest population - this has been going on throughout the histroy of islam long before any 'western imperialism. you aslo seem to forget that islamic imperialism was going onas little as 250 ears ago, right up to the point that it came into conflict with european borders and was defeated.
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    (Original post by malikabdullah96)
    Where the hell did you get that Islamic Caliphates murdered and raped? The Islamic Caliphate was ruled by Shariah Law which is against rape and murder and both had the death penalty. When you are talking about conquering land, when the state expanded the people themselves accepted it and wanted Islam to rule them because they saw how just the ruling was, the Jews of Southern Europe wanted the Muslims to come there and get rid of the oppression from the Christians which we did. Crime and Poverty were virtually eradicated because the state knew it had a duty upon its people to serve them and not to control them which is the complete opposite today. When the muslims conquered new land it wasn't to take its resources and suck it dry like our modern states do (e.g. go into Iraq take all the oil) but instead it was to fairly distribute and give resources to the poor places they conquered. So please, learn history before making false judgments about what the caliphate was all about.
    i think you need to read some actual historical texts, you appear to be completly brainwahsed as to the events of histroy. read up on the mughhal empire, the ottomans, the umayadd conquest of the arabian peninsla, the riddah wars- these were all signficant military confilcts, they werent people openly welcoming islamic armies into their lands and handing them over the rule. Following that i woulkd then advise reading up on the arab lsave trade, largely in central africa, which all the caliphs oversaw at some point.
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    (Original post by FCI)
    very rarely, if at any time, is a youtube clip empirical proof of anything. However in terms of extreme violence, poverty and gorwth of islam within the worlds poorest population - this has been going on throughout the histroy of islam long before any 'western imperialism. you aslo seem to forget that islamic imperialism was going onas little as 250 ears ago, right up to the point that it came into conflict with european borders and was defeated.
    Can you give me an example of poverty in the muslim world before western imperialism?

    The difference between Islamic Imperialism and Western Imperialism is that Islam does not go expand to take the places resources and leave them dry, unlike the west and I can name many examples, a current one is Mali, they found gold there and suddenly its time for them to get some democracy.
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    (Original post by malikabdullah96)
    Where the hell did you get that Islamic Caliphates murdered and raped? The Islamic Caliphate was ruled by Shariah Law which is against rape and murder and both had the death penalty. When you are talking about conquering land, when the state expanded the people themselves accepted it and wanted Islam to rule them because they saw how just the ruling was, the Jews of Southern Europe wanted the Muslims to come there and get rid of the oppression from the Christians which we did. Crime and Poverty were virtually eradicated because the state knew it had a duty upon its people to serve them and not to control them which is the complete opposite today. When the muslims conquered new land it wasn't to take its resources and suck it dry like our modern states do (e.g. go into Iraq take all the oil) but instead it was to fairly distribute and give resources to the poor places they conquered. So please, learn history before making false judgments about what the caliphate was all about.
    i think you need to read some actual historical texts, you appear to be completly brainwahsed as to the events of histroy. read up on the mughhal empire, the ottomans, the umayadd conquest of the arabian peninsla, the riddah wars- these were all signficant military confilcts, they werent people openly welcoming islamic armies into their lands and handing them over the rule. Following that i woulkd then advise reading up on the arab slave trade, largely in central africa, which all the caliphs oversaw at some point. Moslem armies and the caliphs drained all theier coquered contries of their natural resources, in asia it was gold, spices , in east africa coffee harvest and in central and subsahran africa it was the very people itself, moslem empre became rich off selling africans in the slave trade, long before the europenas got there.
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    (Original post by Al-Fatihah)
    Many non-muslims have a misconception of why muslim lands are in such bad conditions, constantly engaging in extreme violence, and their hatred towards the West. Many blame the islamic texts for the reason.

    The evidence appears to disagree with this notion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojC0uY5cW8

    Is the West and its imperialism the blame for the growth of radical islam and the establishment of poor and conflicting muslim states?

    Let's have a dialogue.
    No, absolutely not. We have no-one but ourselves to blame. If there is one thing that could set Muslim countries on the path to prosperity, it would have to be empowerment of the female population. Give them control of their bodies, unshackle barriers to education and work and watch the country thrive.
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    (Original post by malikabdullah96)
    Can you give me an example of poverty in the muslim world before western imperialism?The difference between Islamic Imperialism and Western Imperialism is that Islam does not go expand to take the places resources and leave them dry, unlike the west and I can name many examples, a current one is Mali, they found gold there and suddenly its time for them to get some democracy.
    east asia, indonesia was (and still is -relatively ) a country ith masses of poor. Ethipoai, somalia, yemen afganistan all were comapratively poor, the richest parts of the islamic empire tended to be saudi / iraq-persia / turkey(depending on who was in control of islam at the time) as thats where the taxes and spoilss of empire went. --- Ethopia was a relatively propserous kingdom in the ancient world till the arabs invaded and took over the lucrative coffee bean industry, they also started taking black africans to process through the arab slave trade, which was by far the biggest money earner in the islamic empire. Egpyt was perhaps the most propserous civilisation outside of rome - prior to islamic armies conqering alexandria and cairo. Interstingly you mention Mali- which had one of the powerful empires in all of africa and a major player in the gold trade under king Sundiata -until that is the arabs finally conquered and then arab- deccended kings took control. Even afganistan has a proud hsitroy pre-islam as one of the wordls first civilisations- what is left of that after 1000 years of islamic rule?Islamic Imperialism and Western Imperialism have lttle difference- the main one being is the west became militarily and technologically superior to the moslems and brought down the islamic empires in africa and indian subcontinent.
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    (Original post by Al-Fatihah)
    Many non-muslims have a misconception of why muslim lands are in such bad conditions, constantly engaging in extreme violence, and their hatred towards the West. Many blame the islamic texts for the reason.

    The evidence appears to disagree with this notion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojC0uY5cW8

    Is the West and its imperialism the blame for the growth of radical islam and the establishment of poor and conflicting muslim states?

    Let's have a dialogue.
    I urge anyone to read about Operation Ajax 1953 - how the US and the UK overthrew the first (and to date, only) democratically elected Iranian Prime Minister and replaced him with a dictatorship. This prime minister was a liberal, pro-human rights politician who nationalised Iranian oil and was therefore overthrown by the west, who replaced him with a brutal dictatorship(s)
    Look at Iran now.

    West=bad
    East=worse

    edit: this is no conspiracy theory btw, it's an undisputed historical event acknowledged by both west and east.
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    (Original post by amineamine2)
    I urge anyone to read about Operation Ajax 1953 - how the US and the UK overthrew the first (and to date, only) democratically elected Iranian Prime Minister and replaced him with a dictatorship. This prime minister was a liberal, pro-human rights politician who nationalised Iranian oil and was therefore overthrown by the west, who replaced him with a brutal dictatorship(s)Look at Iran now.West=bad East=worseedit: this is no conspiracy theory btw, it's an undisputed historical event acknowledged by both west and east.
    there are far better exapes of western meddling in the middle east - nasserism, sadats assasination, installing of mubarak? If you odnt understand the bogger picture of the cold war etc, you will not inderstand the politics of this era.
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    Taliban did offer to hand over Bin Laden to America if they recieved evidence of crimes. Saddam Hussein never had never had nuclear weapons, the world's most sophisticated spying agency I think would know whether a country had wmd's or not.


    Osama bin laden was simply a person who was angry at the American deployment of troops in Saudi Arabia, He wasn't the only one..


    So in otherwords there would be no problem in the middle east if there were no American boots there from the start.

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    (Original post by FCI)
    there are far better exapes of western meddling in the middle east - nasserism, sadats assasination, installing of mubarak? If you odnt understand the bogger picture of the cold war etc, you will not inderstand the politics of this era.
    I'm studying the cold war in one of my A-levels, thank you very much.
    And it's not about understanding the bigger picture, each one of these event is an unjust move, a move with a lot of human blood on its hands.
    Even if the coup was a part of something bigger, it still wouldn't make it right.
    The coup was about oil more than anything, the communist card was played to convince the US to join the coup. It's still irrelevant, we are discussing immoral and unjustified western interference, not whether it was the best move for the west in the cold war. I am not too bothered about that.

    And no, Sadat's assassination does not compare, nor do any other of your examples. The 1953 coup is one of the most significant events in Middle Eastern 20th century.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    I would imagine that "Western imperialism" is partly to blame, most certainly. It defines the discourse that surrounds the entire debate, forcing our thoughts down certain lines and allows us to accept certain actions whilst damning others. The process of abusing the East for its resources has deep roots in Western society and I don't really see that changing any time soon, unfortunately.
    Funnily enough, imperialism has *always* been the driving force for terrorism. Ever since the first documented suicide terrorists. I mean the very first people to use suicide terrorism were Jews, when the Romans controlled Jerusalem
    We don't really hear of that...

 
 
 
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