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The right, the welfare system and its propaganda Watch

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    At a time where the benefits are rising 1 percent, which is a decrease if you take into account inflation those on benefits are portrayed in an almost cartoon character sense; as all lazy scroungers who spend all their money on smoking and having kiddies for a house and benefits. The reality is very different. Now we are all going to agree that 'scroungers' shouldn't be 'living a life of luxury' as the media portays. As we identify us, our family or friends as not scroungers. After all they're not talking about us??

    The tory idea that to solve unemployment is that they just need to get a job; when there is not enough jobs to go round, many jobs get taken up by immigrants, and some do not have affordable or suitable childcare (most childcare has limited working hours). The tories and the DM fuel hate towards those on benefits looking for work.
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    Is it not tiresome peddling the same old left wing ****?

    NO-ONE deserves a free ride who can work. It is a good thing the media is picking up on it. Would you rather we bury our heads in the sand for the sake of not insulting over sensitive idiots?

    As for the bit about immigrants, how do you expect to be taken seriously when failing to mention Labour in the same sentence? You can't blame the Tories for that.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    At a time where the benefits are rising 1 percent, which is a decrease if you take into account inflation those on benefits are portrayed in an almost cartoon character sense; as all lazy scroungers who spend all their money on smoking and having kiddies for a house and benefits. The reality is very different. Now we are all going to agree that 'scroungers' shouldn't be 'living a life of luxury' as the media portays. As we identify us, our family or friends as not scroungers. After all they're not talking about us??

    The tory idea that to solve unemployment is that they just need to get a job; when there is not enough jobs to go round, many jobs get taken up by immigrants, and some do not have affordable or suitable childcare (most childcare has limited working hours). The tories and the DM fuel hate towards those on benefits looking for work.
    Briefly what is your question?
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    Is it not tiresome peddling the same old left wing ****?

    NO-ONE deserves a free ride who can work. It is a good thing the media is picking up on it. Would you rather we bury our heads in the sand for the sake of not insulting over sensitive idiots?

    As for the bit about immigrants, how do you expect to be taken seriously when failing to mention Labour in the same sentence? You can't blame the Tories for that.
    That's not what he is saying. He is saying that at a time when jobs are scarce (and they are), that the unemployed should not be scapegoated (which they are) for the failures of the capitalist system by the likes of Tory politicians (which they do). The "no-one deserves a free ride who can work" is typical Tory mantra for blaming and demonising the unemployed for their lot.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    That's not what he is saying. He is saying that at a time when jobs are scarce (and they are), that the unemployed should not be scapegoated (which they are) for the failures of the capitalist system by the likes of Tory politicians (which they do). The "no-one deserves a free ride who can work" is typical Tory mantra for blaming and demonising the unemployed for their lot.
    Capitalism generates egocentrism
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    That's not what he is saying. He is saying that at a time when jobs are scarce (and they are), that the unemployed should not be scapegoated (which they are) for the failures of the capitalist system by the likes of Tory politicians (which they do). The "no-one deserves a free ride who can work" is typical Tory mantra for blaming and demonising the unemployed for their lot.
    It isn't a failure of Capitalism now though is it? We are in a mess because of government intervention. Jobs are scarce(r) because of barriers to employing people caused by the same old culprit; government. But this is another argument.

    I don't understand how the Tories can be possibly be described as against the WORKING class? A party who (at least, used to) advocate lower taxes, take a stern line on immigration and welfare fraud is a party for the working man. Labour is the party for those employed by government and subsidised by government. It is that simple.

    Stop banging the drum of class warfare. Your biggest enemies are the scrotes who give the WORKING class a bad name, not the Tories.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    It isn't a failure of Capitalism now though is it? We are in a mess because of government intervention. Jobs are scarce(r) because of barriers to employing people caused by the same old culprit; government. But this is another argument.

    I don't understand how the Tories can be possibly be described as against the WORKING class? A party who (at least, used to) advocate lower taxes, take a stern line on immigration and welfare fraud is a party for the working man. Labour is the party for those employed by government and subsidised by government. It is that simple.

    Stop banging the drum of class warfare. Your biggest enemies are the scrotes who give the WORKING class a bad name, not the Tories.
    Government too. Lower taxes or more individual taxes? The bedroom tax; poll tax; pasty tax.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Government too. Lower taxes or more individual taxes? The bedroom tax; poll tax; pasty tax.
    I said a party that used to. I'm not too fond of the current government either. The worker's problem has always been government, not less of it.
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    (Original post by poiuy)
    At a time where the benefits are rising 1 percent, which is a decrease if you take into account inflation those on benefits are portrayed in an almost cartoon character sense; as all lazy scroungers who spend all their money on smoking and having kiddies for a house and benefits. The reality is very different. Now we are all going to agree that 'scroungers' shouldn't be 'living a life of luxury' as the media portays. As we identify us, our family or friends as not scroungers. After all they're not talking about us??

    The tory idea that to solve unemployment is that they just need to get a job; when there is not enough jobs to go round, many jobs get taken up by immigrants, and some do not have affordable or suitable childcare (most childcare has limited working hours). The tories and the DM fuel hate towards those on benefits looking for work.
    I was almost going to like your post. It's nice to see someone whose not a Tory on this fourm (not that I've spent too much time on this section so forgive me if I'm wrong ). However, you got me on the whole 'immigrants are taking our job'. This sounds like a Daily Mail headline!

    But yes, the attack on the working class by them Tory rats is disgusting
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    (Original post by Free.Help)
    I was almost going to like your post. It's nice to see someone whose not a Tory on this fourm (not that I've spent too much time on this section so forgive me if I'm wrong ). However, you got me on the whole 'immigrants are taking our job'. This sounds like a Daily Mail headline!

    But yes, the attack on the working class by them Tory rats is disgusting
    I'm not racist or one of those daily mail types, immigration is an issue which does need dealing with yet it is hard for anyone to talk about it without sounding a bit bnp. I'm all for an equal exchange of work or to fill job shortages; so with the shortages in skilled workers I'm happy for them to be filled with immigrants or if say a doctor moves to germany and a german doctor comes to the uk. I disagree with letting immigrants filling the few jobs in the country when we have so many unemployed. If there are 2 people, one immigrant and one british person, and one job. If the job goes to the immigrant that leaves the british person unemployed and having to live off benefits . If the job goes to the british person, then the immigrant can't live off benefits. I know this is a massive simplication, but I believe we should have an approach like Australia's: where the system is point bases, focusing on job shortages and expected income (and in the future what they'd contribute in tax to the country). Unlike DM readers, I don't believe immigrants come here for benefits: they come here for work, but that itself is a problem.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    Is it not tiresome peddling the same old left wing ****?

    NO-ONE deserves a free ride who can work. It is a good thing the media is picking up on it. Would you rather we bury our heads in the sand for the sake of not insulting over sensitive idiots?

    As for the bit about immigrants, how do you expect to be taken seriously when failing to mention Labour in the same sentence? You can't blame the Tories for that.
    The conservative party were responsible for joining the EU........
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    here here.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    It isn't a failure of Capitalism now though is it? We are in a mess because of government intervention. Jobs are scarce(r) because of barriers to employing people caused by the same old culprit; government. But this is another argument.

    I don't understand how the Tories can be possibly be described as against the WORKING class? A party who (at least, used to) advocate lower taxes, take a stern line on immigration and welfare fraud is a party for the working man. Labour is the party for those employed by government and subsidised by government. It is that simple.

    Stop banging the drum of class warfare. Your biggest enemies are the scrotes who give the WORKING class a bad name, not the Tories.
    People who commit benefit fraud cost the government 1.2 bn, the amount it gains in people not claiming benefits they're entitled to is 1.3bn. The percentage of the welfare budget fraudently claimed is 0.7 percent; what people belive is that it is 33 percent. Tax evasion, the middle/upper class fraud costs 15 times that at 15.2 billion. So really the government needs to get its priorities right.
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    (Original post by poiuy)
    I'm not racist or one of those daily mail types, immigration is an issue which does need dealing with yet it is hard for anyone to talk about it without sounding a bit bnp. I'm all for an equal exchange of work or to fill job shortages; so with the shortages in skilled workers I'm happy for them to be filled with immigrants or if say a doctor moves to germany and a german doctor comes to the uk. I disagree with letting immigrants filling the few jobs in the country when we have so many unemployed. If there are 2 people, one immigrant and one british person, and one job. If the job goes to the immigrant that leaves the british person unemployed and having to live off benefits . If the job goes to the british person, then the immigrant can't live off benefits. I know this is a massive simplication, but I believe we should have an approach like Australia's: where the system is point bases, focusing on job shortages and expected income (and in the future what they'd contribute in tax to the country). Unlike DM readers, I don't believe immigrants come here for benefits: they come here for work, but that itself is a problem.
    Couldn't agree more, theres not a single person working in Costa or Starbucks or Pret A Manger who isn't a first generation Eastern European/Asian with limited English.
    Sorry if it sounds racist, I just want to be understood when I speak the country's language.
    I don't really understand the percentage of immigration because all the foreigners I've spoken to say they intend to go back to their home country eventually and complain about how terrible their lives are here :confused: As though they're being forced to stay.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    It isn't a failure of Capitalism now though is it? We are in a mess because of government intervention. Jobs are scarce(r) because of barriers to employing people caused by the same old culprit; government. But this is another argument.
    Capitalism has failed - It was only because governments stepped in to bail them out. Jobs are scarce not because of barriers to employment caused by the government but by the capitalist transnational corporations. They set up shop up in a country and when they decide things can be done cheaper elsewhere, they leave making thousands of people redundant. TNC's care only for their shareholders - they do not care for their employees or society.

    That's the problem with capitalism - when it fails as it often does, it's the people who have to pay for it. Neoliberalism serves a few people and brainwashes the many.
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    (Original post by poiuy)
    At a time where the benefits are rising 1 percent, which is a decrease if you take into account inflation those on benefits are portrayed in an almost cartoon character sense; as all lazy scroungers who spend all their money on smoking and having kiddies for a house and benefits. The reality is very different. Now we are all going to agree that 'scroungers' shouldn't be 'living a life of luxury' as the media portays. As we identify us, our family or friends as not scroungers. After all they're not talking about us??

    The tory idea that to solve unemployment is that they just need to get a job; when there is not enough jobs to go round, many jobs get taken up by immigrants, and some do not have affordable or suitable childcare (most childcare has limited working hours). The tories and the DM fuel hate towards those on benefits looking for work.
    This is tough job to get a vacancy.
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    (Original post by poiuy)
    At a time where the benefits are rising 1 percent, which is a decrease if you take into account inflation those on benefits are portrayed in an almost cartoon character sense; as all lazy scroungers who spend all their money on smoking and having kiddies for a house and benefits. The reality is very different. Now we are all going to agree that 'scroungers' shouldn't be 'living a life of luxury' as the media portays. As we identify us, our family or friends as not scroungers. After all they're not talking about us??

    The tory idea that to solve unemployment is that they just need to get a job; when there is not enough jobs to go round, many jobs get taken up by immigrants, and some do not have affordable or suitable childcare (most childcare has limited working hours). The tories and the DM fuel hate towards those on benefits looking for work.
    Didn't Labour open the floodgates in terms of bringing in more people to drive down wages (and ironically displace their traditional voters)?
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    (Original post by Izzyeviel)
    Capitalism has failed - It was only because governments stepped in to bail them out. Jobs are scarce not because of barriers to employment caused by the government but by the capitalist transnational corporations. They set up shop up in a country and when they decide things can be done cheaper elsewhere, they leave making thousands of people redundant. TNC's care only for their shareholders - they do not care for their employees or society.

    That's the problem with capitalism - when it fails as it often does, it's the people who have to pay for it. Neoliberalism serves a few people and brainwashes the many.
    Capitalism hasn't failed because we haven't been performing it. The US government and the Fed inflated the housing bubble, and when that burst it hurt the financial sector and hence the plague spread. Bail-outs are not a capitalist idea; that is government intervention. Let the banks fail. Deposits shouldn't be insured (another form of intervention), because then customers would actually care what their bank was doing and so would the banks. Yes, there will be short term pain, but sometimes medicine tastes bad. The resources will be freed up for a more successful outfit to take its place at the dinner table.

    Here we go, the same old 'da korporashunz' argument. Businesses don't owe anyone anything. They are there to provide a service that meets demand and make profit. That isn't evil. That isn't exploitative. That is fact. The fact they are footloose ultimately benefits the consumer as lower costs can keep prices in check. TNCs leaving isn't as detrimental as you like to think; the bloated public sector sucking money from the actual productive sector is the problem. I guess you would like us to tax them more as well? Well that would simply drive them away even more. If workers in this country become less productive than elsewhere, they have every right to move elsewhere; would you propose we chain them here? I can tell you are some sort of socialist so it wouldn't surprise me you dictating what others can and can't do.
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    (Original post by poiuy)
    The conservative party were responsible for joining the EU........
    But it is Labour who are lax on immigration. Have you been blind for the last decade?
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    (Original post by poiuy)
    The conservative party were responsible for joining the EU........
    Incorrect. The Conservatives got us into the common Market. A huge difference.
 
 
 
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