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Has Feminism lost its relevance? watch

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    Before you go ''omg its another one of these threads''. Hear me out, I support gender equality for males and females, I acknowledge that in terms of some positions women are unequal in society, i.e. majority a lot of pm's/political positions being held by men. However one thing that bothers me is the term ''Feminism'' itself, why would modern so called ''equality seekers'' brand themselves under one idea and one concept that was intended to improve the rights of women to a point where they were pretty much able to do what men are able to do. Which I certainly think so, moreso in Britain than abroad that males and females are fairly equal in society (notice I didn't say totally equal). I try to understand feminism but it just doesn't work for me, when I see videos like this:


    posted on the internet, it makes me think why is feminism still around?
    What is the true purpose of modern-day feminism?
    If your really ''for'' equality, then why not being a humanist or something that promotes equality for both groups regardless of what they were born with and their biological nature?
    Lets face it, in Britain females aren't as oppressed as feminazi's say they are, A lot of women good to universities, play a role in top executive positions as managers, politicians and general workers alike.
    I can understand the relevance of feminism for countries where women are oppressed, but not here it just does not make sense to me.

    Can anyone give me a logical reason to support feminism? I just see it as a lost cause right now, that has not really achieved much at all in the modern age.

    tl;dr whats the point in modern-age feminism, has it lost its relevance, why not abandon feminism and let the radicals die (not literally), every time I see videos like this it just upsets me that the nature of feminism has brought upon some radicalism which oppresses men from their rights and interests.
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    The men in that video proved their class tenfold, I have to say. To remain calm in the face of such abhorrent abuse is exceptionally difficult.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    The men in that video proved their class tenfold, I have to say. To remain calm in the face of such abhorrent abuse is exceptionally difficult.
    Exactly. Their patience with these women is outstanding, I'd be infuriated if my lecture/talk was ruined by feminazi's coming in, but these men remain so calm.
    It's also funny how women are also there but somehow its one sided, I really don't understand the minds of these people, but feel very sorry for the people going to these talks
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    (Original post by Robbie242)
    Before you go ''omg its another one of these threads''.
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2314838
    This was posted 2 hours ago. It's the 7th post down right now in this very section. Come the **** on.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2314838
    This was posted 2 hours ago. It's the 7th post down right now in this very section. Come the **** on.
    Sorry I wanted to offer my own perspective on it on my own thread for people to convince me that feminism is a cause worth fighting for. I thought of an exam question that thought of did the angel of the house lose its relevance in the second half of the nineteenth century, so I thought relevance was an appropriate word. Sorry if you think I'm stealing a thread, but I really am not, I am offering my own perspective and trying to find something slightly different and more direct than the other thread
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    (Original post by Robbie242)
    Sorry I wanted to offer my own perspective on it on my own thread for people to convince me that feminism is a cause worth fighting for. I thought of an exam question that thought of did the angel of the house lose its relevance in the second half of the nineteenth century, so I thought relevance was an appropriate word. Sorry if you think I'm stealing a thread, but I really am not, I am offering my own perspective and trying to find something slightly different and more direct than the other thread
    It's not about stealing threads. This section has been languishing in its feminist bashing phase for like 2 months now. We're well overdue for a Muslim bashing phase, or a drug legalisation phase, or a gay marriage phase but here we still are with identical threads everyday.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    It's not about stealing threads. This section has been languishing in its feminist bashing phase for like 2 months now. We're well overdue for a Muslim bashing phase, or a drug legalisation phase, or a gay marriage phase but here we still are with identical threads everyday.
    I see what you mean, I'll take that into consideration next time
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    It's not about stealing threads. This section has been languishing in its feminist bashing phase for like 2 months now. We're well overdue for a Muslim bashing phase, or a drug legalisation phase, or a gay marriage phase but here we still are with identical threads everyday.
    Within the forum rules, people are entitled to post whatever they want. Being consistent with the frame set by the video title; why do you feminists oppose freedom of speech so much?
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    Within the forum rules, people are entitled to post whatever they want. Being consistent with the frame set by the video title; why do you feminists oppose freedom of speech so much?
    Get a grip.
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    (Original post by Captain Haddock)
    Get a grip.
    Wow. :lol:
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    I think feminism retains a great deal of relevance today, because the values it seeks to uphold and protect remain under threat in society.

    Yeah, those women in that video are bonkers, but it's a bit like listening to Anjem Choudhury and deciding that all Muslims are stone-age knuckle-draggers, intent on poisoning our judicial system with archaic, homophobic, misogynistic claptrap.

    You've said yourself that equality of opportunity does not exist in Britain. Women suffer considerable disadvantages in the job market, and there is a strong argument that the judicial system is biased, in some respects, against women, where they are judged not as people, but assessed by motherly and wifely capacity, and are blamed for being raped. Something coming to the fore a lot recently has been the flagrant misogyny of 'Lad culture', where women are objectified, derided and mocked, and this is passed off as 'banter', when in reality, it continually reaffirms damaging and misogynistic stereotypes about women, supporting their subordination.

    It's hugely underreported by the media, but sexual harassment remains incredibly high in universities. I think the York SU conducted a study recently and found that over half of respondents to their survey had been sexually harassed, abused or groped during their time in university, and I expect this to be endemic across Britain.

    Considering the fact that women are disadvantaged, underrepresented, bullied, harassed and abused in virtually every significant aspect of British society, I would say that feminism is still relevant, and has a lot of work to do to create a more egalitarian society.

    Saying that, the role of women has improved a great deal in the last few decades alone, and that can't be ignored, but it has to be viewed as an incomplete march of progress. Moreover, humanism is certainly a worthwhile pursuit, but it does not perform the same function as feminist movements do, in targeting gender inequality. Also, to be fair, feminism isn't a coherent, homogenous or organised movement in the way it was in the past, so it stands to reason that some offshoots of sincere and legitimate organisations are a bit cray - the same can be said for virtually any movement.
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    (Original post by JollyGreenAtheist)
    I think feminism retains a great deal of relevance today, because the values it seeks to uphold and protect remain under threat in society.

    Yeah, those women in that video are bonkers, but it's a bit like listening to Anjem Choudhury and deciding that all Muslims are stone-age knuckle-draggers, intent on poisoning our judicial system with archaic, homophobic, misogynistic claptrap.

    You've said yourself that equality of opportunity does not exist in Britain. Women suffer considerable disadvantages in the job market, and there is a strong argument that the judicial system is biased, in some respects, against women, where they are judged not as people, but assessed by motherly and wifely capacity, and are blamed for being raped.Something coming to the fore a lot recently has been the flagrant misogyny of 'Lad culture', where women are objectified, derided and mocked, and this is passed off as 'banter', when in reality, it continually reaffirms damaging and misogynistic stereotypes about women, supporting their subordination.

    It's hugely underreported by the media, but sexual harassment remains incredibly high in universities. I think the York SU conducted a study recently and found that over half of respondents to their survey had been sexually harassed, abused or groped during their time in university, and I expect this to be endemic across Britain.

    Considering the fact that women are disadvantaged, underrepresented, bullied, harassed and abused in virtually every significant aspect of British society, I would say that feminism is still relevant, and has a lot of work to do to create a more egalitarian society.

    Saying that, the role of women has improved a great deal in the last few decades alone, and that can't be ignored, but it has to be viewed as an incomplete march of progress. Moreover, humanism is certainly a worthwhile pursuit, but it does not perform the same function as feminist movements do, in targeting gender inequality. Also, to be fair, feminism isn't a coherent, homogenous or organised movement in the way it was in the past, so it stands to reason that some offshoots of sincere and legitimate organisations are a bit cray - the same can be said for virtually any movement.
    How are they at a disadvantage?

    And what are these "strong arguments" you speak of?
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    I think the word "feminism" is the start of the problem. It provides a gateway to extreme feminism and 'feminazis', that try to say women are better than men, which is all wrong. What really needs promotion is equality - what the feminist cause initially was, was that men and women were to be equal and that's what needs to be pioneered.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    How are they at a disadvantage?

    And what are these "strong arguments" you speak of?
    Job market: There are demonstrably less women in many powerful jobs. Men are hugely over-represented in the sphere of politics, head teachers, barristers, engineers, management, business leaders and consultants, etc. There is a glass ceiling for women's achievement based on narrow stereotypes held by superiors, that perpetuates itself, because they hire men with the same stereotypes. It's harder for women to get jobs because employers discriminate on the basis that they will ask for maternity leave, and employers can't afford it. There's flagrant sexism in a lot of male-dominated industries like mechanics, carpentry, building, labour-intensive public service (fire services, for example).

    Judicial system: Victim blaming and positivist victimology is used to tar women in sexual abuse and assault cases a great deal.
    Judge Wylde said [paraphrased, but just as crude:] "Women don't always mean no when they say no to sex. In the end, they just have to keep their legs shut. They show that they really want sex in the way they dress and their consumption of alcohol".
    Women sometimes face double abuse at the hands of the judicial system: there's getting raped, then there's "proving respectability" for evidence at a hearing to carry any worth.
    There are also studies supporting the view that women who abandon their ascribed gender role of heterosexual monogamy are punished much more harshly for offenses than men that do that. Moreover, there's the eternal double-standard of sexuality, where promiscuity is viewed as a negative characteristic in women, but a positive characteristic in men, which tarnishes the reliability of evidence and hinders character believability.
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    (Original post by JollyGreenAtheist)
    Job market: There are demonstrably less women in many powerful jobs. Men are hugely over-represented in the sphere of politics, head teachers, barristers, engineers, management, business leaders and consultants, etc. There is a glass ceiling for women's achievement based on narrow stereotypes held by superiors, that perpetuates itself, because they hire men with the same stereotypes. It's harder for women to get jobs because employers discriminate on the basis that they will ask for maternity leave, and employers can't afford it. There's flagrant sexism in a lot of male-dominated industries like mechanics, carpentry, building, labour-intensive public service (fire services, for example).
    I've heard this argument many times and it's nothing more than one interpretation of things. For example, is it even known how many women actually attempt to have careers in such sectors? Is there actual application data?

    I've also heard retorts along the lines of "oh well they don't bother applying because they feel that they would be wasting their time because of the stereotyping against them". It's immensely difficult to prove such things, tbh.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    I've heard this argument many times and it's nothing more than one interpretation of things. For example, is it even known how many women actually attempt to have careers in such sectors? Is there actual application data?

    I've also heard retorts along the lines of "oh well they don't bother applying because they feel that they would be wasting their time because of the stereotyping against them". It's immensely difficult to prove such things, tbh.
    I take your point, but are you really suggesting that the job market is entirely equal, and the reason for such vast disparity in earnings is because women, all over the West, have a gigantic chip on their shoulder? Is that not just victim blaming?

    Taken from: http://www.wrc.org.uk/resources/fact...in_the_uk.aspx

    • In 2006 it was reported that the gender pay gap in the UK is one of the highest in Europe: women who work full-time earned 17% less per hour than men. Women working part-time earned 39% less per hour than men working full-time.
    • In 2007, median weekly earnings of full-time employees for women of £394 were 21% less than those for men (£498).
    • It was reported in 2005 that minority ethnic women earn the least with a total income of £118 per week, or 59% of minority ethnic men’s earnings and just 32% of white men’s earnings.

    You also don't appear to have anything to say about my argument re: judicial inequality. I take it you agree?
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    (Original post by JollyGreenAtheist)
    I take your point, but are you really suggesting that the job market is entirely equal, and the reason for such vast disparity in earnings is because women, all over the West, have a gigantic chip on their shoulder? Is that not just victim blaming?

    Taken from: http://www.wrc.org.uk/resources/fact...in_the_uk.aspx

    • In 2006 it was reported that the gender pay gap in the UK is one of the highest in Europe: women who work full-time earned 17% less per hour than men. Women working part-time earned 39% less per hour than men working full-time.
    • In 2007, median weekly earnings of full-time employees for women of £394 were 21% less than those for men (£498).
    • It was reported in 2005 that minority ethnic women earn the least with a total income of £118 per week, or 59% of minority ethnic men’s earnings and just 32% of white men’s earnings.

    You also don't appear to have anything to say about my argument re: judicial inequality. I take it you agree?
    I actually found an interesting article regarding the "gender wage gap" in the USA. The article can be found in this thread: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2308817

    Unfortunately, the thread did not receive any replies. This was strange, considering it's supposedly one of the issues that feminists are interested in resolving.

    It's worthy of nothing that the author is a well-published feminist, also.

    As for the judicial system - I am reserved on this issue, at the moment. I will say, though, that rape is not really an equality issue. It is a massive issue, sure, but one that I feel is in an ilk of it's own. Feminists bringing it into the whole "gender equality" arena are just borrowing from a much bigger issue to justify their movement, tbh.

    FYI, men don't have the "right" to rape women. That the courts are unable to justify conviction is not an indication that women are being wronged, per se. It's an indication that the court was unable to convict, nothing more.
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    (Original post by Dark Horse)
    I actually found an interesting article regarding the "gender wage gap" in the USA. The article can be found in this thread: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=2308817

    Unfortunately, the thread did not receive any replies. This was strange, considering it's supposedly one of the issues that feminists are interested in resolving.

    It's worthy of nothing that the author is a well-published feminist, also.

    As for the judicial system - I am reserved on this issue, at the moment. I will say, though, that rape is not really an equality issue. It is a massive issue, sure, but one that I feel is in an ilk of it's own. Feminists bringing it into the whole "gender equality" arena are just borrowing from a much bigger issue to justify their movement, tbh.

    FYI, men don't have the "right" to rape women. That the courts are unable to justify conviction is not an indication that women are being wronged, per se. It's an indication that the court was unable to convict, nothing more.
    That was a really interesting article, thanks for posting it . However, I would be interpreted to know the sample size used in the research, and would question how applicable that study of college graduates in America is to all women in the UK. Not necessarily disagreeing with what you're saying, but it does pose some more questions.

    To be honest, I didn't understand your last paragraph. I don't remember saying anything about a men having a "right" to rape women...
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    Whatever you are going to call us feminists, humanists, equality-seekers, whatever - sooner or later the radicals are going to ruin the case and we will be looking for a new name.
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    That isn't feminism. Those women do not represent us. They are man-hating idiots.
 
 
 
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