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Bristol or Nottingham for Law? watch

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    Bristol
    25
    54.35%
    Nottingham
    21
    45.65%

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    Hello, I'm having some trouble deciding which university to firm. Could anyone give me some opinion on this?
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    Both are well respected universities for law. I'd say decide based on which course you prefer/campus you like best/where you'd be happiest. Don't base your decision in league tables - for practical purposes, there is little/no difference between the two.

    For your poll, I chose Nottingham. Only because I like it up North!
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    Bristol I'd say.
    I don't know much about the courses but I do know that Bristol is a much nicer city than Notts.
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    (Original post by decanto)
    Hello, I'm having some trouble deciding which university to firm. Could anyone give me some opinion on this?
    Bristol: Far more students get 2:1s or firsts. More prestigious overall. Nicer city.
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    Bristol. Nottingham has a harsh grading system and I've heard a very small minority do well; that alone would scare me away from it. Reputation wise, I'd say they are both equally seen as competitive by a lot of law firms (if that's what you are interested in).

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    Nottingham has the stronger department. Bristol appears to largely be historically excellent and prestigious. If I were in your position I'd try and seek clarity from Nottingham on the 2:1/2:2 debate. Nottingham has the more high profile academics and on average stronger students which may or may not be a positive.

    I would opt for Nottingham.
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    (Original post by Rascacielos)
    For your poll, I chose Nottingham. Only because I like it up North!
    The people of the North would be shocked and appalled to hear Nottingham referred to as being Northern, it's in the Midlands!
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    (Original post by Norton1)
    The people of the North would be shocked and appalled to hear Nottingham referred to as being Northern, it's in the Midlands!
    As self-elected official TSR representative of The North, I say that The North is entirely indifferent to Nottingham's Northernness or otherwise.

    It is, however, the nicer place. Therefore, go to Nottingham.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    As self-elected official TSR representative of The North, I say that The North is entirely indifferent to Nottingham's Northernness or otherwise.

    It is, however, the nicer place. Therefore, go to Nottingham.
    What part of the North are you from? Because if it's Lancashire *shakes fist*
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    (Original post by LoseSmallWinBig)
    Nottingham has the stronger department. Bristol appears to largely be historically excellent and prestigious. If I were in your position I'd try and seek clarity from Nottingham on the 2:1/2:2 debate. Nottingham has the more high profile academics and on average stronger students which may or may not be a positive.

    I would opt for Nottingham.
    You speak with such unbridled authority for one whom I assume (and correct me if I am wrong) has yet to start University.

    On what empirical evidence or data do you base your assertions? I am often baffled by people's sense and tone of absolutism when they espouse their opinions... I will eagerly await your reply...

    And do you think in the grand scheme of things that if OP picks one institution over the other, this will make a substantial difference in his or her prospects? More so than degree class or other ECs which will make him or her stand out?
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    (Original post by vnupe)
    You speak with such unbridled authority for one whom I assume (and correct me if I am wrong) has yet to start University.

    On what empirical evidence or data do you base your assertions? I am often baffled by people's sense and tone of absolutism when they espouse their opinions... I will eagerly await your reply...

    And do you think in the grand scheme of things that if OP picks one institution over the other, this will make a substantial difference in his or her prospects? More so than degree class or other ECs which will make him or her stand out?
    Apologies if It came across that way. However, this is a student room and it becomes slightly too wordy and contrived to insert 'I think' and 'in my opinion or 'in my eyes' into every post made. I may not have started university yet however I wish not to be lumped in with the typical sixth former. I have siblings who studied at universities of a similar ilk, parent who pursued the law years back, so I'm just relaying my experiences...

    Here is my reasoning. Nottingham has a stronger student on average, breaking the 500+ UCAS barrier along with Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Durham and King's. Yes, this doesn't mean a great deal, but on average the stronger students end up with the better grades.

    Nottingham is joint 4th for research (2.9) in comparison to Bristol with 2.6. Research might not be the most important aspect of choosing a university, but it says something about the calibre of those teaching you, whether or not they are good teachers is another story.

    Nottingham is also more selective in my opinion. Not just because of the A*AA requirement, but also because of what they'll accept on the LNAT.

    Bristol is an excellent university for Law, but moreso based on reputation and historical factors. Could you provide reasons why in 2013, Bristol is an excellent place to study Law? Most people will make some reference to its reputation or prestige if asked this question. Whilst, data doesn't tell the full story in any case, it needs to be considered else we rely on the abstract notion of prestige and reputation. It's all well and good being deemed as prestigious but if you start to falter down the rankings, it will hurt you, and Bristol may be falling victim to this judging by its declining application rates. It is surely hard to deny that Nottingham appear to be stronger for Law then Bristol on paper at least. Would you disagree?

    The answer to your final question is emphatically no. I'm not quite sure why you would have thought I'd could have answered yes to that. Nottingham and Bristol are pretty equal all things considered.
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    (Original post by LoseSmallWinBig)
    Apologies if It came across that way. However, this is a student room and it becomes slightly too wordy and contrived to insert 'I think' and 'in my opinion or 'in my eyes' into every post made. I may not have started university yet however I wish not to be lumped in with the typical sixth former. I have siblings who studied at universities of a similar ilk, parent who pursued the law years back, so I'm just relaying my experiences...

    Here is my reasoning. Nottingham has a stronger student on average, breaking the 500+ UCAS barrier along with Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Durham and King's. Yes, this doesn't mean a great deal, but on average the stronger students end up with the better grades.

    Nottingham is joint 4th for research (2.9) in comparison to Bristol with 2.6. Research might not be the most important aspect of choosing a university, but it says something about the calibre of those teaching you, whether or not they are good teachers is another story.

    Nottingham is also more selective in my opinion. Not just because of the A*AA requirement, but also because of what they'll accept on the LNAT.

    Bristol is an excellent university for Law, but moreso based on reputation and historical factors. Could you provide reasons why in 2013, Bristol is an excellent place to study Law? Most people will make some reference to its reputation or prestige if asked this question. Whilst, data doesn't tell the full story in any case, it needs to be considered else we rely on the abstract notion of prestige and reputation. It's all well and good being deemed as prestigious but if you start to falter down the rankings, it will hurt you, and Bristol may be falling victim to this judging by its declining application rates. It is surely hard to deny that Nottingham appear to be stronger for Law then Bristol on paper at least. Would you disagree?

    The answer to your final question is emphatically no. I'm not quite sure why you would have thought I'd could have answered yes to that. Nottingham and Bristol are pretty equal all things considered.
    A couple of things...
    First, Bristol looks for a certain tariff, how much below 500 is that tariff, it is significantly below, is it statistically different from 500? If not then tariff is not a definitive indicator of superiority.
    Secondly, you state that Notts asks for A*AA, and I think Bristol asks for a contextualized AAB... But generally (and correct me if I am wrong), AAA. Isn't that the same tariff asked by Oxford? So by your logic is Oxford less of a uni (whatever that means) than Notts?
    Third, you mention league tables... Methinks this is the tail waging the dog... Newspapers use specific criteria to generate these projections... The tables themselves are very volatile... So volatile that there are enormous swings from year to year... So does this mean that the unis are reeling year on year and are that volatile themselves, OR does it mean that the data upon which many of these rankings are based are actually very volatile.
    Further to this... Bristol hasn't had a declining application (as far as I am aware) pool... In fact following the mandate initiated by UCAS... Bristol has increased the amount of acceptance by 600 places... And has still filled all of those places without going into clearing, lowering their offers, and I think only a couple (literally) of people got into Bristol by adjustment.
    And finally, isn't a more stable and confident judge (if you will) about prestige/reputation... Call it what you will... What employers think about the quality of your university and more importantly degree class?
    Specifically for law the employers are very enamored with Bristol... And many of the MC and SC firms flock to Bristol and recruit and take graduates from Bristol in larger numbers for all except for Oxbridge... Interested in your reply...
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    (Original post by vnupe)
    A couple of things...
    First, Bristol looks for a certain tariff, how much below 500 is that tariff, it is significantly below, is it statistically different from 500? If not then tariff is not a definitive indicator of superiority.
    Bristol is 495 and Nottingham is 509, so not a big difference to be honest or enough to really warrant me mentioning it in the first place but it may change this year. Nottingham also makes AAB contextual offers so it evens itself out


    Secondly, you state that Notts asks for A*AA, and I think Bristol asks for a contextualized AAB... But generally (and correct me if I am wrong), AAA. Isn't that the same tariff asked by Oxford? So by your logic is Oxford less of a uni (whatever that means) than Notts?
    You're putting words into my mouth. The tariff is the same, but Oxford attracts higher calibre students than Bristol and Nottingham by some margin. The tariff is irrelevant. To support this claim,Oxford average tariff for Law is 603, compare that to Bristol at 495. Despite having a requirement of AAA, Oxford Law students attain the highest A-Levels on average.

    Third, you mention league tables... Methinks this is the tail waging the dog... Newspapers use specific criteria to generate these projections... The tables themselves are very volatile... So volatile that there are enormous swings from year to year... So does this mean that the unis are reeling year on year and are that volatile themselves, OR does it mean that the data upon which many of these rankings are based are actually very volatile.
    I'm citing the CUG, which is not volatile at all.

    http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...Research&s=Law


    Further to this... Bristol hasn't had a declining application (as far as I am aware) pool... In fact following the mandate initiated by UCAS... Bristol has increased the amount of acceptance by 600 places... And has still filled all of those places without going into clearing, lowering their offers, and I think only a couple (literally) of people got into Bristol by adjustment.

    I am just going to put a marker down here. It isn't much more than a feeling in the bowels, but I don't think
    Bristol will be handing out many rejections for law this year. I think Bristol has been caught in a popularity myth and is running out of applicants.

    The applicant numbers for Bristol for law (included related degrees) have gone:

    2007 2164
    2008 2125
    2009 1714
    2010 1583
    2011/2012 (?) 1,007+

    In that time the number of acceptances ie places filled, has increased from 175 to 236.

    A post by Nullis Tertius a year back.
    I think this answers your above point. Bristol probably fill their places, because they are no longer as selective or competitive as they once were. Going through clearing is the ultimate

    And finally, isn't a more stable and confident judge (if you will) about prestige/reputation... Call it what you will... What employers think about the quality of your university and more importantly degree class?
    Well yes. However, you see so many people on these forums arguing that Oxbridge is overrated and living of the past/and needs to be taken down a peg or two. Yet Oxbridge by large put their money where their mouth is in almost every quantifiable measure along with the notion of prestige and reputation. Places like Bristol do not come under such criticism despite faring averagely in the league tables and largely living off their reputation just like people accuse Oxford of doing . What makes Bristol any better than Sussex in 2013?

    Specifically for law the employers are very enamored with Bristol... And many of the MC and SC firms flock to Bristol and recruit and take graduates from Bristol in larger numbers for all except for Oxbridge... Interested in your reply...
    I don't argue with that. Both are more then good enough to get your foot in the door in the city. I said that Nottingham has a stronger department and you disagreed.
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    (Original post by LoseSmallWinBig)
    Bristol is 495 and Nottingham is 509, so not a big difference to be honest or enough to really warrant me mentioning it in the first place but it may change this year. Nottingham also makes AAB contextual offers so it evens itself out




    You're putting words into my mouth. The tariff is the same, but Oxford attracts higher calibre students than Bristol and Nottingham by some margin. The tariff is irrelevant. To support this claim,Oxford average tariff for Law is 603, compare that to Bristol at 495. Despite having a requirement of AAA, Oxford Law students attain the highest A-Levels on average.



    I'm citing the CUG, which is not volatile at all.

    http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...Research&s=Law







    I think this answers your above point. Bristol probably fill their places, because they are no longer as selective or competitive as they once were. Going through clearing is the ultimate



    Well yes. However, you see so many people on these forums arguing that Oxbridge is overrated and living of the past/and needs to be taken down a peg or two. Yet Oxbridge by large put their money where their mouth is in almost every quantifiable measure along with the notion of prestige and reputation. Places like Bristol do not come under such criticism despite faring averagely in the league tables and largely living off their reputation just like people accuse Oxford of doing . What makes Bristol any better than Sussex in 2013?



    I don't argue with that. Both are more then good enough to get your foot in the door in the city. I said that Nottingham has a stronger department and you disagreed.
    So it seems we agree on points one and four... so no sense flogging a dead horse...

    Lets use your logic of the second point on KCL, higher tariff than Bristol and Notts, so this means by your logic, they are attracting a higher caliber of student... yet they are dwarfted by both unis on the CUG league table... what does this mean... well it could mean two or more things, but I will focus on mainly one which seems the most obvious, well at least it does to me... what metric most factors into league table position? Do they place a greater emphasis on tariff? Apparently not from the data in the room, or do they place a higher emphasis on student satisfaction... and research assessment? Earlier you said yourself that research assessment does not usually affect undergrads (or at least I think it was you, I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong... ), so as far as what concerns undergrad law students, we are leads us one metric which holds potentially holds greater weight that others, the student satisfaction survey.
    We are aided in drawing this conclusion by its place on the table and the corresponding uni positions on the table. Cambridge is listed as 7 although they are graded by overall score as being 1.
    Additionally we see that Cambs has no score for student satisfaction... draw your own conclusions...
    Alternatively Kent with a much lower tariff (by far than all the surrounding units), but yet stellar student satisfactory scores is one spot above Cambs.... again draw your own conclusion...
    It is through this data, that I postulate that this guide table (the CUG) is skewed, just like all the other tables... you just have to know how to read the massaged data... which is why I have a hard time with league tables...

    You clairvoyantly postulate clearing in Bristol's future, this may indeed happen, but it has not happened yet, we will see this year, if it does... somehow though I think Bristol knows their worth and so it turns out do the Employers including the Law employers... last year Southampton and I think Exeter were in clearing i do not know if Notts were... I think Durham Bristol Oxbridge and the four main London units were not (there may be more)... you are kown by the company you keep...

    All I can say is that I am happy with my education and degree from there, as it was my choice to go there over other unis, and I encourage anyone to make the choice that is right for them, by looking at empirical data and then making personal choices through informed decisions... I am not here to persuade you to choose one way or another...

    And too your point about Bristol not coming under criticism, I think you were too young to know about the scandal that erupted a few years back concerning Bristol and the type of students they accepted... the information can be found here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...ns_controversy

    I can already imagine your response... back to you...
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    (Original post by Norton1)
    The people of the North would be shocked and appalled to hear Nottingham referred to as being Northern, it's in the Midlands!
    The people of Nottingham would likely be shocked and appalled to hear it referred to as such, also.

    IT'S IN THE MIDDLE


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    (Original post by vnupe)
    So it seems we agree on points one and four... so no sense flogging a dead horse...

    Lets use your logic of the second point on KCL, higher tariff than Bristol and Notts, so this means by your logic, they are attracting a higher caliber of student... yet they are dwarfted by both unis on the CUG league table... what does this mean... well it could mean two or more things, but I will focus on mainly one which seems the most obvious, well at least it does to me... what metric most factors into league table position? Do they place a greater emphasis on tariff? Apparently not from the data in the room, or do they place a higher emphasis on student satisfaction... and research assessment? Earlier you said yourself that research assessment does not usually affect undergrads (or at least I think it was you, I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong... ), so as far as what concerns undergrad law students, we are leads us one metric which holds potentially holds greater weight that others, the student satisfaction survey.
    We are aided in drawing this conclusion by its place on the table and the corresponding uni positions on the table. Cambridge is listed as 7 although they are graded by overall score as being 1.
    Additionally we see that Cambs has no score for student satisfaction... draw your own conclusions...
    Alternatively Kent with a much lower tariff (by far than all the surrounding units), but yet stellar student satisfactory scores is one spot above Cambs.... again draw your own conclusion...
    It is through this data, that I postulate that this guide table (the CUG) is skewed, just like all the other tables... you just have to know how to read the massaged data... which is why I have a hard time with league tables...

    You clairvoyantly postulate clearing in Bristol's future, this may indeed happen, but it has not happened yet, we will see this year, if it does... somehow though I think Bristol knows their worth and so it turns out do the Employers including the Law employers... last year Southampton and I think Exeter were in clearing i do not know if Notts were... I think Durham Bristol Oxbridge and the four main London units were not (there may be more)... you are kown by the company you keep...

    All I can say is that I am happy with my education and degree from there, as it was my choice to go there over other unis, and I encourage anyone to make the choice that is right for them, by looking at empirical data and then making personal choices through informed decisions... I am not here to persuade you to choose one way or another...

    And too your point about Bristol not coming under criticism, I think you were too young to know about the scandal that erupted a few years back concerning Bristol and the type of students they accepted... the information can be found here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...ns_controversy

    I can already imagine your response... back to you...

    KCL is above Bristol in the CUG. KCL is 9th and Bristol is 12th. So I don't know what this mean for your argument..

    I think I accidentally provided the wrong link. This is the link I had intended to provide. This is the general ranking for Law.
    http://www.thecompleteuniversityguid...rankings?s=Law

    Apologies as I appear to have caused the crux of your response with my error.

    I wasn't actually trying to insinuate that Bristol would be in clearing. That was an incomplete sentence, 'I had meant to say that clearing is the ultimate walk of shame for a university like Bristol (which is why they would rather be more lenient with handing out offers) but forget to insert it. I don't think Oxbridge, London, Durham, Nottingham, Bristol and Warwick ever feature in clearing for Law or at least the straight LLB course.

    That is fine. I hope it doesn't come across like I'm trying to badmouth Bristol or dissuade others from attending TOO much, but I'm just relaying my thoughts. I shall not be attending either university so I'd like to think that I'm not bias.

    On hindsight my initial comment was pretty provocative and uncalled for, so I apologise. It was quite unnecessary to try and split the two in the manner that I did. In terms of undergraduate experience I assume both will be pretty equal.
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    The people of Nottingham would likely be shocked and appalled to hear it referred to as such, also.

    IT'S IN THE MIDDLE
    To be quite honest I consider the people of Nottingham to be more deserving of the epithets 'shocking' and 'appalling' as oppose to speculating on their reaction to being confused with Northerners.
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    (Original post by Norton1)
    To be quite honest I consider the people of Nottingham to be more deserving of the epithets 'shocking' and 'appalling' as oppose to speculating on their reaction to being confused with Northerners.
    Bit harsh.


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    (Original post by Norton1)
    The people of the North would be shocked and appalled to hear Nottingham referred to as being Northern, it's in the Midlands!
    That's open to debate, I think!
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    (Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
    Bit harsh.
    Had a bad experience.

    (Original post by Rascacielos)
    That's open to debate, I think!
    Do you mean to tell me that East Midlands today would lie to me? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ay_10_04_2013/) I think not madam. I think not.
 
 
 
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