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    Imagine an island....

    Three clans and an Emperor (and his soldiers) live on this island.

    The Monkey Clan lives on one third which contains a coconut tree. They own this part of the island.

    The Zebra Clan lives on one third which contains a fish pond. They own this part of the island.

    The Fool Clan lives on one third which contains barren rocks. They own this part of the island.


    The Monkey Clan and Zebra Clan trade each other coconut and fish and that satisfies there daily needs. (They also give some of their produce to the Emperor who takes care of law and order).

    The Fool Clan have no produce to trade. Sometimes they sell themselves into slavery for the other two clans for scraps of food. Which makes the other two clans even more fat and lazy.

    The law of inheritance says that land passes from father to son.

    Every year the Emperor is voted in by 2 votes to 1.

    The Fool Clan have a new baby boy. For no fault of its own it is destined to live in poverty or death.

    Does this example mean that inheritance is wrong and that capitalism is unfair? Even though there is nothing undemocratic about this scenario. Does it just mean life is unfair? Or maybe it means welfare is unfair and the Fool Clan should just be allowed to starve?
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    Inheritance is extremely moral. I'd far rather my worldly goods go to my flesh and blood rather than some idle ****ers claiming welfare.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    I don't understand.
    Which bit?
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    Inheritance is extremely moral. I'd far rather my worldly goods go to my flesh and blood rather than some idle ****ers claiming welfare.
    So in my example. Is it fair that the Fool Clan will starve to death?
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    (Original post by Chadya)
    Inheritance is extremely moral. I'd far rather my worldly goods go to my flesh and blood rather than some idle ****ers claiming welfare.
    I agree.
    Id rather leave my goods to my family and close friends than it end up going god knows where. Its up to you who you leave your things to.
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    (Original post by noobynoo)

    The Fool Clan have a new baby boy. For no fault of its own it is destined to live in poverty or death.
    This assumes that no-one can move from one part of the island to another part

    The "slave" element is the issue ... if a single change were made ... so that the Fool could be employed by the Monkeys or the Zebras or the Emperor then he could save funds and change his position
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    (Original post by Emma:-))
    I agree.
    Id rather leave my goods to my family and close friends than it end up going god knows where. Its up to you who you leave your things to.

    So what would you do in my example of the island?
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    What an odd example. Some people have less so noone should have anything?

    Inheritence is already taxed, as are the earnings that make it up. Anything you inherit will have had at least 1 lot of tax payed on it, probably more, there is no issue. Although I would like to remove inheritence tax.
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    (Original post by TenOfThem)
    This assumes that no-one can move from one part of the island to another part

    The "slave" element is the issue ... if a single change were made ... so that the Fool could be employed by the Monkeys or the Zebras or the Emperor then he could save funds and change his position

    But why should the Fool Child have to work for the other two rich clans for no fault of his own. Plus the other two clans have all their daily needs catered for so there are no jobs.
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    (Original post by noobynoo)
    So what would you do in my example of the island?
    Life isnt always fair, end of.
    I dont quite get what its got to do with inheritance anyway.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    What an odd example. Some people have less so noone should have anything?

    Inheritence is already taxed, as are the earnings that make it up. Anything you inherit will have had at least 1 lot of tax payed on it, probably more, there is no issue. Although I would like to remove inheritence tax.
    But why should the Fool Clan children be born worse off than the other children and potentially starve when they live on an island abundant with coconuts and fish ponds which unfortunately because of inheritance laws they have no access to?
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    There must be something the fool clan can give or provide. Nobody is entirely useless, they can work for their inheritance and pass that to their children. Sure it unfair, but unfortunately society doesnt really work like that unless everybody is agreed that they all share the coconuts and fish.
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    (Original post by Emma:-))
    Life isnt always fair, end of.
    I dont quite get what its got to do with inheritance anyway.

    Because the Monkey Clan and Zebra Clan will inherit the means of production whereas the Fool Clan children will starve to death.

    Yes I agree life is not fair. It's just the simplest example I can think of. When dealing with complex issues it is good to narrow things down to the simplest factors.
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    (Original post by noobynoo)
    But why should the Fool Child have to work for the other two rich clans for no fault of his own.
    Why not ... what is the problem with working

    Plus the other two clans have all their daily needs catered for so there are no jobs.
    No, you specifically said that there were Fool Slaves working for them ... the only change needed is that this is paid employment rather than slavery
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    (Original post by Lexi99)
    There must be something the fool clan can give or provide. Nobody is entirely useless, they can work for their inheritance and pass that to their children. Sure it unfair, but unfortunately society doesnt really work like that unless everybody is agreed that they all share the coconuts and fish.
    In this example the Fool Clan live on barren rocks. There is nothing they can do except try and sell their labour. But the other clans are quite self sufficient so they don't need labour. And if they did they'd only pay a pittance which is barely enough to survive.
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    (Original post by TenOfThem)
    Why not ... what is the problem with working



    No, you specifically said that there were Fool Slaves working for them ... the only change needed is that this is paid employment rather than slavery
    Its semantics. Yes they can seek paid employment. But there are no jobs because the other clans are self sufficient.
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    No matter how much we care about our own and wish to advance our own children and grandchildren, the reality is that we all also live in a complex and deeply interconnected society, where many people are strongly motivated and affected by issues of fairness. It gets harder and harder to maintain good order, a caring attitude and concern for all if a small group become much, much richer than everyone else over the generations due to inheritance.

    For this reason, many thoughtful societies since very early times have introduced forms of taxation on inheritance to ensure that wealth does not continue to aggregate exponentially in too few hands.

    Large inheritance is also often not very good for heirs. They get spoilt by it, they become lazy and very good at frittering it away. "There are plenty of rich children and grandchildren, but not so many rich great-grandchildren."
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    (Original post by noobynoo)
    But why should the Fool Clan children be born worse off than the other children and potentially starve when they live on an island abundant with coconuts and fish ponds which unfortunately because of inheritance laws they have no access to?
    You did not previously suggest abundance ... you said that there was enough to meet daily needs

    Are you now saying that there is excess
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    (Original post by noobynoo)
    Its semantics. Yes they can seek paid employment. But there are no jobs because the other clans are self sufficient.
    So there are no slaves, that has changed now?

    Ok

    How did the Fool child's parents survive?
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    In the alternative world - what would happen when the head monkey died?

    If it would go to the Emperor, then the Emperor would decide who to give it to - would it make sense then for the Emperor to give the land to the Fools? Why should they get the benefits of the coconuts?

    The only system that would make this fair would be communism - everyone shares everything. But we all know that doesn't necessarily happen in practice.
 
 
 
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