Anyone doing !"All My Sons" by Arthur Miller Watch

strawberrypie666
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#61
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#61
And also something about the structure?
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Coffe saved my life
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#62
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#62
(Original post by edbradley)
Hey some good ideas here.... can someone explain to me if Ann has read the letter before and knows Keller is guilty why does she still refuse to speak to her father but is completely at ease talking to Keller? That makes zero sense to me.....

cheers
I think the answer you got before wasn't entirely accurate - it was still correct but your forgetting what the letter said. The letter was written by Larry, who remember was away at war, all the information he had was from newspapers. So his conclusion of 'wanting to kill dad' is based on absolutely no evidence, it's like you living your life based on all the writings of the sun - it wouldn't all be right would it.
You can speculate about what the newspapers said - but the real form of truth at least for Ann until she finds out the actual truth is the court verdict. The court verdict was her dad was guilty, Keller was inicent, the letter she has changes none of it.
To be honest i think Larry killing himself is completely unrealistic, i mean (won't use the sun again but we'll take the mail) say the mail says on it's front page, 'NAME OF YOUR DAD'S COMPANY supplies faulty equipment resulting in 21 deaths'
Your first reaction isn't 'i hate my dad now i'm going to commit suicide' - you'd want to speak to him, find out the truth, just in case it isn't real!

Also does anyone find mother the most repulsive character ever in a book? And have you covered ever page she speaks in with the word '*****' 'COW' or 'this book would actually be ok if it wasn't for mother' - i mean perhaps i'm being all 'pro-american dream' sympathsizing with Keller but to be honest if my wife told my son the one thing in the world i didn't want my son to find out i'd be slightly pissed off...
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willie07
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#63
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#63
I don't think Larry committed suicide purely because of what his dad did. I think it was the horrendous sights and autrocities he experienced whilst fighting for his country, the violence, the fear, the loss of his friends and comrades. Whilst Keller was back at home making money from the war, others were in hell, risking their lives for their country. And Keller sent these boys, the ones fighting for him "his own sons" just like Larry up into the air with faulty planes. The enormity of what he's done means neither he nor Kate can actually come to admit it, and when the truth does finally come out and blame can;t be avoided, Keller can't deal with it.

I agree Kate is annoying, quite manipulative character actually, but I also empathise with her hugely.

Help on structure would be good for me too! x
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edbradley
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#64
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haha sounds like u got the same attitude towards the play as i do! yeah cheers i can understand where ur coming from, i hadn't thought about it in that way....
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GingerMarshmallow
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#65
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Yeah I used to feel quite sympathetic towards Kate but the more I look at her character the more manipulative and slightly evil I find her! (ok so maybe the evil was a bit harsh) but I really think she's worse than Keller. She really knows on a conscious level what Keller's done and she outrightly manipulates everybody (whenever you think she's being nice there's a nasty interpretation too) whereas Keller really believes he's done nothing wrong until the very end when he takes action against himself, so he kind of takes responsibility.
I like this text best but I seem to do not so well in the essays. I do better in Spies!!! Argh! But I haven't done a Spies essay for yonks now.....I hate leaving everything so late (so why do I do it? I just don't know)
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GingerMarshmallow
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#66
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#66
Oh, in terms of structure you should bear in mind that it's a play, big things happen around the middle of the play. You should also think about why certain characters enter when they do and why not sooner/later. Also think about their reactions to all sorts of news and its dramatic impact. Slightly off topic about structure but apparently you really have to show awareness that it's a play (and don't call Spies a play like my friend did in her mock!)
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willie07
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#67
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#67
haha cheers. good luck tomorrow!
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porcelain.ragdoll
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#68
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I really don't think that Kate is that bad - everything she does is for her family, and in that way she's only as bad as Joe. She doesn't let Chris move initially because that would involve admitting that Larry is dead and she can't do that, cos in her eyes that means that Joe killed him. It's not a manipulative denial thing - it honestly is survivial.

- vital character - tnesion built up before her initial entrance with repeated references to her and her reaction about the tree, Miller creates anticlimax with her actual response.

- powerful and authoratitive - had a few long, structured speeches which directs audience's attention and makes her seem high-status. Her lack of movement is also interesting in comparision to, for example, George who is a very mobile character. She is often "sitting" while her gestures are minimal "nodding ever so slightly" yet stilll she is in control. Miller experiments with how motionless characters amongst chaos can direct more attention.
(stationary stage directions also echo Chris' "were at a railrod station" - she is unwilling to move on)

- dramatic irony in fact that she trie to keep secret so hard, yet she finally reveals it. Her power is reinforced in the fact that her throw-away comment, “He hasn’t been laid up in fifteen years”, can transform the mood of this scene (very light-hearted up until this point, with people “laughing”). Noise and action, (“starts”, “goes”) is transformed to stillness (“perfectly still”) and silence. Her power comes from the facstuch a throw away comment can have sch devastating consequences.

- effect secret has over her - headaches = metaphor for the emotional strain she is under. It demonstrates how her torment and torture so great that they have come to be manifested physically, through her horrendously painful headaches. This tenacity and doggedness is a little frightening, with Miller’s metaphor pushing the audience to worry about the consequences it will have, not only on others, but also on herself.

We're all going to rule -
Good Luck Everybody!

*fingers crossed for lovely questions*
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02mik_e
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#69
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Thanks a lot some of the points on this have really helped me. But i am really struggling to answer the following question:

Remind yourself of the play’s opening, as far as the exit of Bert on page 98 of the Penguin Classics edition.

How far do you agree with the view that, in terms of subject matter and style, this section forms an effective introduction to the play?
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dinahany
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#70
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#70
hi every body iam so cnfused in finding an amazing way to study all my sons themes if any one had one plz tell me i have an exam in10th feb. thank u
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Cataclysm
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#71
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#71
Err, I would recommend the All My Sons York Notes: http://www.amazon.co.uk/All-Sons-Yor.../dp/1405861800

My friends seem to like it as a study guide.
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natli
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#72
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#72
Can anyone help with this question:

How does Miller introduce the past and show the effects of the past on the Kellers without using flashbacks?

I've made a few notes regarding symbolism. The tree and the letter which both allow the past to enter the play without the events having to be revisited.

I also have headings about the setting, because some of the events in the past happened in the same places/houses.

And the characters, i.e Ann/George, Both from the past.


But that's when I get stuck, any ideas?
Thanks =]
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Cataclysm
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#73
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Hmm, the symbols is a very good idea. Also, you can mention that the play is Ibsen-esque. It explores the effects the past has on the present.
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kissofdeath36
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#74
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#74
Hey, could anyone tell me some stuff about Joe Keller? I need to know 1) What does he think about others? 2) How does he relate to others? and 3) What do others think about the character?

Anyyyyy help would really be appreciated. Thankoo.
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02mik_e
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#75
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(Original post by kissofdeath36)
Hey, could anyone tell me some stuff about Joe Keller? I need to know 1) What does he think about others? 2) How does he relate to others? and 3) What do others think about the character?

Anyyyyy help would really be appreciated. Thankoo.
best plcae to post this would be in the all my sons thread
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kissofdeath36
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#76
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#76
Oh right I thought this was the All My Sons 1.. hahaha oops.. thanks for letting me know lol.
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GingerMarshmallow
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#77
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#77
This is an AMS thread!
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02mik_e
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#78
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#78
(Original post by GingerMarshmallow)
This is an AMS thread!
yh it is, don't get me wrong, but it is not one that a lot of people look at.

Oh sorry if i sounded a bit rude kissofdeath, didn't mean to.
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kissofdeath36
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#79
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#79
Oh no.. I just want someone.. to help me with my presentation lool. Do you know any other threads then?
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02mik_e
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#80
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#80
Remind yourself of Act Three of All My Sons, pages 159–171 in the Penguin Classics edition.

How far do you agree with the view that, in terms of subject matter and style, this Act forms an effective conclusion to the play?

Ok i ve just done a practice essay on this question. has anyone got a practice essay for this question. We finished AMS before christmas, we are now doing spies, so no need to think i am cheating in anyway. I just want to compare mine with others and be able to see an A grade sample of this question. Thanks
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