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Michael jackson Watch

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    hello all,

    I was just watching the Martin Bashir documentary about Michael and his life.... and cannot help but think that it is SUCH a shame the way people talked about and treated such a seemingly innocent and caring man. Of course he is totally eccentric and just generally out of the ordinary, but through it all he seems to be a genuinely kind and giving person.

    Though... this is just my opinion, formed from watching many different interviews and documentaries over the years

    What is your opinion on him ... and also do you believe the rumors that his death was a hoax?
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    I kind of agree with you that he seemed like a very caring, gentle guy. He was pretty much demonised over the years for people thinking he turned white because he hated being black, and accusations of paedophilia. The first is just wrong because they confirmed on his autopsy that he had vitiligo, hence why he'd want to even out his skin colour through surgery. Patches of his skin were getting whiter, and it's obviously more noticeable on people of a darker skin tone. He didn't want to seem unattractive to his audience. The second I don't believe because of the fact that he was acquitted, and the jury weren't biased. Of course, when you add his eccentricity to all of this, it doesn't exactly help deter the haters.

    As for whether his death was a hoax, well no one really knows ALL the information. The overdose doesn't seem implausible, although there probably is more to the story than Jackson's physician.
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    didn't the father of the kid behind the pedophillia claims admit that he made it up?
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    (Original post by Jack93o)
    didn't the father of the kid behind the pedophillia claims admit that he made it up?
    I was reading up on that a while back and he killed himself a few months after Jackson died. The story goes that Jordy Chandler was a fan of Jackson's and they made friends. MJ would invite his family over to Neverland and his dad got pissed off as Jordy preferred spending time over at MJ's. In retrospect it seems like the dad orchestrated it all beforehand out of jealousy, encouraging Jordy and MJ to spend more time together and tried to get MJ to build a private bedroom on Neverland . Think he was in debt as well. I don't think he could live with the guilt of what he did once MJ died.

    Throughout everything I have read the impression I get of MJ is that he was incredibly naive but had a genuinely good heart. MJ's sister La Toya made that statement about him being a paedophile on TV and having proof and yet he forgave her, cooperated with the investigations and maintained his innocence. I saw this video a while back too which analyses his body language during the statement he issued at his Neverland ranch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmS5bFSutcI

    Here's the same guy analysing the doctor who "killed" him - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbSrZD4nhPs

    And one of MJ being interviewed in '96 by the police - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAXmZ7rtSho

    I don't know anything about body language but it seems to make sense to me. Personally I believe he was innocent.

    And Martin Bashir made himself look like an utter ******** during that documentary.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
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    The story behind the first allegations is that the father of Jordy Chandler, Evan, was a failing screenwriter who was desperate to make it in hollywood and saw his son's friendship with MJ as an opportunity to extort money to fund his amibtions. The boys father was manipulative and controlling (hence why he didn't even have custody of Jordy) and managed to coerce his son (by drugging him) into going along with these allegations, which he initially vehemently denied.

    If MJ was innocent then why did he pay them loads of money, people ask?
    Many reasons. First of all, when Evan Chandler convinced Jordy to make these accusations, he filed a civil lawsuit against Michael Jackson. So instead of reporting it to the police like any normal parent seeking justice would, he got the "nastiest son of a *****" lawyers (Evan's own words) he could and sued him for money. This was leaked to the media and it became a circus in the press. The police obviously started their own investigations and began flying around the world interviewing many different people that MJ knew.

    The fact that MJ was being sued at the same time he was being investigated by police for the same allegation put him in a very difficult position. The cops had found no evidence to even merit arresting Jackson, let alone charging him with a crime. So the civil trial (for money) was trundling closer and closer, while criminal charges were no where near fruition. If the civil trial went ahead it would've been a violation of Jackson's constitutional right not to self incriminate. In other words, by testifying in the civil trial, he would've exposed his entire defence strategy to prosecutors and allowed lawyers to form criminal charges around anything he said. The only way he could guarantee himself a completely fair trial in a criminal court would be to get rid of the lawsuit. (There was actually a change in California law to stop this happening again as a direct result of this case).

    There were also other reasons, namely, MJ's health had seriously deteriorated because of a demerol addiction he acquired to deal with the stress and also the possibility of it harming his future earning power.
    In the end, court documents prove the following 1. Jackson opposed settling and it was in no way an admission of guilt. 2. Evan Chandler agreed to change the claim to simply 'negligence' and not molestation. 3. The settlement in no way prevented the Chandlers from tesitfying in any forthcoming criminal trial. 4. The money actually was paid by his insurance carrier.
    The police eventually dropped the case through lack of evidence. Like i say, he wasn't even arrested, the evidence was so thin. When Jordy Chandler was 16 he gained legal emancipation from his parents and never spoke to them again because of what they put him through. I hope i've explained that clearly, it was a bit rushed :rolleyes:

    I highly recommend this article that explains it in detail http://www.buttonmonkey.com/misc/maryfischer.html

    Latoya admitted afterwards that she was threatended into saying those things by her abusive and controlling husband, Jack Gordon.
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    (Original post by Future African game vet)
    hello all,

    I was just watching the Martin Bashir documentary about Michael and his life.... and cannot help but think that it is SUCH a shame the way people talked about and treated such a seemingly innocent and caring man. Of course he is totally eccentric and just generally out of the ordinary, but through it all he seems to be a genuinely kind and giving person.

    Though... this is just my opinion, formed from watching many different interviews and documentaries over the years

    What is your opinion on him ... and also do you believe the rumors that his death was a hoax?
    First of all, some of the so called 'eccentricities' were engineered by Jackson himself to gain publicity. However, that doesn't excuse the way the press ridiculed him and reduced him to a circus act for years and years afterwards. It's just a shame he started it all off.

    Also, we must remember from his childhood, he never knew what 'normal' was. He was famous from aged 10, wasn't allowed to have friends and had it drummed into him that all that matters is your career. To us, having a theme park for a home and dedicating it to helping disadvantaged children might seem 'weird', but shouldn't we be embracing that kind of uniqueness?

    A scribbled note on the inside of a book he owned read,

    "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces, this is the spirit of boyhood, a life I've never had and will always dream of."
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    First of all, some of the so called 'eccentricities' were engineered by Jackson himself to gain publicity. However, that doesn't excuse the way the press ridiculed him and reduced him to a circus act for years and years afterwards. It's just a shame he started it all off.

    Also, we must remember from his childhood, he never knew what 'normal' was. He was famous from aged 10, wasn't allowed to have friends and had it drummed into him that all that matters is your career. To us, having a theme park for a home and dedicating it to helping disadvantaged children might seem 'weird', but shouldn't we be embracing that kind of uniqueness?

    A scribbled note on the inside of a book he owned read,

    "Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys' faces, this is the spirit of boyhood, a life I've never had and will always dream of."

    Yes, I completely agree.
    I just find it disgusting how people turned on him and sort of WANTED him to be a freak - uniqueness does not make you a freak. We live in a world where people rather than marvel at uniqueness, seem almost afraid of it, and as a result attack anyone who is different.

    Thanks for he links guys- they are fascinating!
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
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    Good post. I pretty much already knew that MJ paid off Evan Chandler to get rid of the case but didn't actually know the reason why and just assumed it was because he couldn't be bothered with it . Makes sense now you've said it. It's a shame he got away with doing that to MJ and manipulating his son, hopefully it tormented him until the day he died.
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    (Original post by Future African game vet)
    Yes, I completely agree.
    I just find it disgusting how people turned on him and sort of WANTED him to be a freak - uniqueness does not make you a freak. We live in a world where people rather than marvel at uniqueness, seem almost afraid of it, and as a result attack anyone who is different.

    Thanks for he links guys- they are fascinating!
    Agree. I think because he became such a caricature in the press, people forgot that he was actually a human being. A single father of three. People viewed his life like a soap opera, just waiting for the next crazy story.

    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Good post. I pretty much already knew that MJ paid off Evan Chandler to get rid of the case but didn't actually know the reason why and just assumed it was because he couldn't be bothered with it . Makes sense now you've said it. It's a shame he got away with doing that to MJ and manipulating his son, hopefully it tormented him until the day he died.
    Yeah, it makes a good soundbite when people say he paid off his accusers, but the truth is always more boring to people than the myth.

    This is a secret recording of the boy's father basically admitting what he's after.



    The conversation carries on after it cuts off. The other guy replies "Does any of this help the boy?" He replies by saying "That's irrelevant to me". The guy was a psycho if you ask me.

    I'd also highly recommend this article. It goes into detail about how much the media distorted his trial in 2005 to make him look guilty when in reality the evidence was very thin http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charle..._b_610258.html
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    My personal opinion, from comparing the footage of him from the early Oprah interview and then interviews after the child molestation allegations is that the charges against him really disturbed him; they made him defensive against the press and people prying into his life. The stress of it all probably lead to him taking more pills (he was on prescription pain killers after the "hair on fire" incident, to try and numb the emotional pain as well as the physical. This seemed to change him as a person quite a lot, his demeanor changed significantly, although you can still see its the same man underneath - his coy shyness was replaced by cool defensiveness; he was keen to clear his name and show that he wasn't doing anything wrong, but by being too honest and saying statements like "of course I let children share my bed, its the most loving think you can do, sharing your bed with someone" he put himself even more in the firing line from critics who wanted to paint him as a monster,
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    (Original post by Future African game vet)
    My personal opinion, from comparing the footage of him from the early Oprah interview and then interviews after the child molestation allegations is that the charges against him really disturbed him; they made him defensive against the press and people prying into his life. The stress of it all probably lead to him taking more pills (he was on prescription pain killers after the "hair on fire" incident, to try and numb the emotional pain as well as the physical. This seemed to change him as a person quite a lot, his demeanor changed significantly, although you can still see its the same man underneath - his coy shyness was replaced by cool defensiveness; he was keen to clear his name and show that he wasn't doing anything wrong, but by being too honest and saying statements like "of course I let children share my bed, its the most loving think you can do, sharing your bed with someone" he put himself even more in the firing line from critics who wanted to paint him as a monster,
    That's a very fair assessment. The charges definitely changed him. They made him lose all interest in being 'Michael Jackson' the superstar. I think he grew very tired of being in the public eye and just wanted to live a quiet life away from the stage. One of the best interviews he did was with Geraldo Rivera in 2005 during his trial. He comes across as extremely humble and down to earth, more so than any other interview. I think as he got older, all he cared about was being a father to a children.

    Your right about the painkillers. When the media circus was happening in 1993 when the first allegations broke, he was originally taking painkillers for toothache and then began taking them to numb the stress and emotional pain he was facing. He was eventually taken to rehab in England by Elizabeth Taylor. As fair as i know, he wasn't addicted to anything in the years after his trial and leading up to his death.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    Your right about the painkillers. When the media circus was happening in 1993 when the first allegations broke, he was originally taking painkillers for toothache and then began taking them to numb the stress and emotional pain he was facing. He was eventually taken to rehab in England by Elizabeth Taylor. As fair as i know, he wasn't addicted to anything in the years after his trial and leading up to his death.
    When you say this, do you mean he was clean or just not addicted (i.e. on drugs prescribed for him either excessively or whatever)? You've seen/heard the video of him absolutely off his tits in the build up to the "This Is It" shows right?
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    When you say this, do you mean he was clean or just not addicted (i.e. on drugs prescribed for him either excessively or whatever)? You've seen/heard the video of him absolutely off his tits in the build up to the "This Is It" shows right?
    I just mean he wasn't addcited. The anaesthetic drug that killed him is not in anyway physically addictive. He may have felt mentally dependant on it because of the pressure and stress he was under, but he certainly wasn't popping Demerol pills just to get by every day like he was in 1993.

    Yeah i've heard the recording. It was made by the very doctor hired to give him nightly doses of propofol and other sedatives to get him to sleep and to monitor him throughout. It might sound like he's just off his head but i think he's just heavily sedated and is incoherantly rambling before his falls unconcious.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    I just mean he wasn't addcited. The anaesthetic drug that killed him is not in anyway physically addictive. He may have felt mentally dependant on it because of the pressure and stress he was under, but he certainly wasn't popping Demerol pills just to get by every day like he was in 1993.

    Yeah i've heard the recording. It was made the very doctor hired to give him nightly doses of propofol and other sedatives to get him to sleep and to monitor him throughout. It might sound like he's just off his head but i think he's just heavily sedated and is incoherantly rambling before his falls unconcious.
    oh, which recording was this?
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    (Original post by Future African game vet)
    oh, which recording was this?
    I think he means this one. It's extremely sad.

    Edit: This is the full one.

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    Wasn't the reason he made friends with a few children because his parents sort of 'stole' his childhood. Once they found out how talented he was they worked him all day long and he never really had a chance to be a kid, so that damaged him, and he tried to compensate for that by befriending children. That's how I inferred the story from what I've read and seen.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    I think he means this one
    Yeah mate that's the one.

    I don't know the ins and outs to be honest but I'm sure I've read that he was actually on some kind of prescription drugs before he died or that he was being prescribed things he didn't need (not disagreeing with you, you obviously know more than I do.)

    I have seen an interview with his bodyguards however, they looked after his kids as well up until he died, they were saying how he'd ask them to get weed for him so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume he might have been on something before he died.
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    (Original post by tomclarky)
    I think he means this one. It's extremely sad.

    Edit: This is the full one.

    that has to be one of the most chilling things I have ever head- it literally made the hairs on my neck stand up....

    What on earth was he taking before that?!

    That's terrible
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Yeah mate that's the one.

    I don't know the ins and outs to be honest but I'm sure I've read that he was actually on some kind of prescription drugs before he died or that he was being prescribed things he didn't need (not disagreeing with you, you obviously know more than I do.)

    I have seen an interview with his bodyguards however, they looked after his kids as well up until he died, they were saying how he'd ask them to get weed for him so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume he might have been on something before he died.

    ahh es the body guard documentary was definitely one of the best- they had insights that no one else had. They all seemed to be very truthful and keen to share their experiences with him.
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    (Original post by Wilfred Little)
    Yeah mate that's the one.

    I don't know the ins and outs to be honest but I'm sure I've read that he was actually on some kind of prescription drugs before he died or that he was being prescribed things he didn't need (not disagreeing with you, you obviously know more than I do.)

    I have seen an interview with his bodyguards however, they looked after his kids as well up until he died, they were saying how he'd ask them to get weed for him so I don't think it's unreasonable to assume he might have been on something before he died.
    Depends what you mean. The only drugs in his system when he died were sedative/IV anaesthetic drugs that the doctor brought into the house and admitted to administering. There were no painkillers found in his house when he died.

    The weed thing i'm not sure about. I remember hearing that weed was found in his bedroom after his death so that would add up. I'd forgotten about that until you said it. I don't really mind if he was getting high every once in a while. It wasn't what killed him after all
 
 
 
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