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    Hi, haven't really started to research a legal career and have some really basic questions for people... its starting to look attractive

    1) it looks like i'll be at oxbridge for my undergraduate degree, does this still put me at an advantage even though my degree is not law, and all my actual law training will probably be elsewhere?

    2) i've heard that there are proposed changes to the legal profession that will make it far less lucrative in the near future for barristers/solicitors...true?

    3) From what I can tell this would be the best case scenario for a route to being a barrister with a non law degree: get 1st from oxbridge, get a training contract (this pays for law school/leads to potential job?), go to a law school and do lpc or bpe (or both? confused) for one year, then one year training as barrister or solicitor, then get an unpaid internship type thing , then get job as associate/ nooby barrister on like 38k age about 24 ?

    Obviously theres a million ways in which ^ could not work out, but is that the best case?
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    1. certainly not. 50% of Magic circle trainee intakes are non-law grads.

    2. Perhaps you are referring to legal aid for barristers; and yes it does make criminal barristers salaries generally less lucrative. Apart from that really you will experience same fluctuations in salaries as most private sector workers .

    3. fastest and cheapest way would be undergrad, hopefully attaining at least a 2.1 (preferably a 1st for the top commercial chambers). GDL at anywhere local or where chambers prefer (if you are lucky to get it funded). BPTC; again study this where is most convenient or where chambers prefer.

    It all sounds very simple, but even a 1st from Oxbridge won't secure you a pupillage. You can definitely make a strong application though; assuming everything else in your application is good.
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    So you haven't started to research a legal career yet it looks attractive. Strange.
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    (Original post by LoseSmallWinBig)
    So you haven't started to research a legal career yet it looks attractive. Strange.
    Again, just one of them people doing law for the sake of it...

    Don't know anything about the career, never shadowed a solicitor, never opened a textbook on law, never even read a case. Yet they find it so simple to plan to graduate from Oxbridge with a 1st, get their LPC/BVC paid for, join a magic circle firm and sip cocktails in Mayfair when they clock off at 4PM.

    Just to put it into perspective, there were 250 people doing straight LL.B Law in my year. Only one of them graduated with a first. Lewis.
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    First - Large numbers of the people looking to get into top Chambers/Firms (your competition) will have wanted it (or mummy and daddy anyway) from a very early age... so do your homework.

    Second - It always 'looks like' you'll be at Oxbridge for your undergraduate degree; for 80% of applicants it doesnt work out that way... also bear in mind the decline of the 'old boy' or 'old school tie' mentality in the modern working world; get yourself a Russell Group first or 2.1 and you should be fine.

    Third - There is talk of moving a little towards the American system where a single 'advocate' handles paperwork AND represents in court; sucks to be you if you've just passed your BVC - but I'm not an authority on this, just discussed it briefly with a barrister I shadowed.


    Good luck.
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    (Original post by DavidSB)
    First - Large numbers of the people looking to get into top Chambers/Firms (your competition) will have wanted it (or mummy and daddy anyway) from a very early age... so do your homework.

    Second - It always 'looks like' you'll be at Oxbridge for your undergraduate degree; for 80% of applicants it doesnt work out that way... also bear in mind the decline of the 'old boy' or 'old school tie' mentality in the modern working world; get yourself a Russell Group first or 2.1 and you should be fine.

    Third - There is talk of moving a little towards the American system where a single 'advocate' handles paperwork AND represents in court; sucks to be you if you've just passed your BVC - but I'm not an authority on this, just discussed it briefly with a barrister I shadowed.


    Good luck.
    Russell Group 2:1 will not just be fine. Most people, with half a brain can achieve this. If you really want to aim for the top, get a 1st. A 1st from Russell group Uni is better than 2:1 from Oxbridge IMO
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    (Original post by DavidSB)
    First - Large numbers of the people looking to get into top Chambers/Firms (your competition) will have wanted it (or mummy and daddy anyway) from a very early age... so do your homework.

    Second - It always 'looks like' you'll be at Oxbridge for your undergraduate degree; for 80% of applicants it doesnt work out that way... also bear in mind the decline of the 'old boy' or 'old school tie' mentality in the modern working world; get yourself a Russell Group first or 2.1 and you should be fine.

    Third - There is talk of moving a little towards the American system where a single 'advocate' handles paperwork AND represents in court; sucks to be you if you've just passed your BVC - but I'm not an authority on this, just discussed it briefly with a barrister I shadowed.

    Good luck.
    You're talking about solicitor advocates, who have been around for a good few years now. In essence, a normal solicitor can do an advocacy course to gain the "higher rights" needed to do all of the advocacy that barristers can, even in the UK Supreme Court.

    I'm not an expert on the implications of this for the legal profession, but naturally barristers seem to be quite dismissive and insist that clients will still come to them (rather than solicitors) as advocacy specialists. However, I'm led to believe that one of the reasons for this is that barristers are so cheap you get more bang for your buck - which isn't ideal as a junior trying to make a living! I've spoken to barristers of 15 years' call who are still only just breaking even, so it's something to be aware of.

    To be honest, even if one were adamant that he wouldn't be happy without advocacy, I don't understand why he wouldn't go down the solicitor route. Most firms now pay for your training (and/or maintenance) - unlike on the BPTC, where you have to fork out £15k upfront without knowing if you'll even get pupillage!
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    (Original post by Rybee)
    Again, just one of them people doing law for the sake of it...

    Don't know anything about the career, never shadowed a solicitor, never opened a textbook on law, never even read a case. Yet they find it so simple to plan to graduate from Oxbridge with a 1st, get their LPC/BVC paid for, join a magic circle firm and sip cocktails in Mayfair when they clock off at 4PM.

    Just to put it into perspective, there were 250 people doing straight LL.B Law in my year. Only one of them graduated with a first. Lewis.
    wouldn't say im really "one of them people" to be honest... have had an interest in the law from an early age and have done work experience at a chambers in london... I have always known that I easily have the academics for it so haven't worried too much about researching the details about applying as I'm not doing a law degree but am converting afterwards. I already have an unconditional offer from oxbridge and I never said I was planning to do all of those things, I was merely trying to work out what I would be aiming for if I do pursue law. So, overall ... you are a tool.
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    (Original post by DavidSB)
    First - Large numbers of the people looking to get into top Chambers/Firms (your competition) will have wanted it (or mummy and daddy anyway) from a very early age... so do your homework.

    Second - It always 'looks like' you'll be at Oxbridge for your undergraduate degree; for 80% of applicants it doesnt work out that way... also bear in mind the decline of the 'old boy' or 'old school tie' mentality in the modern working world; get yourself a Russell Group first or 2.1 and you should be fine.

    Third - There is talk of moving a little towards the American system where a single 'advocate' handles paperwork AND represents in court; sucks to be you if you've just passed your BVC - but I'm not an authority on this, just discussed it briefly with a barrister I shadowed.


    Good luck.
    1)Yeah, the purpose of this thread is for me to start doing my homework, considering I haven't yet started my undergrad and it is non-law I'd say this is decently early to be learning about it ..

    2) Ok I'll rephrase it: I'm going to Oxbridge next year. Not saying I condone the 'old boy' atmosphere but I thought the law was one area in which Oxbridge would really benefit me still?

    3) cheers, didn't know that
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    (Original post by eeeeeh)
    2) Ok I'll rephrase it: I'm going to Oxbridge next year. Not saying I condone the 'old boy' atmosphere but I thought the law was one area in which Oxbridge would really benefit me still?
    Depends by what you mean by benefit you?

    Give you an extra imaginary tick? then yes.

    Get you over the line regardless of your personal qualities? then no.

    What subject are you doing at Ox/Cam? I don't necessarily think just going to Oxbridge now is enough to give you an edge over all those elsewhere even for legal careers. After all, I'd say LSE Law is just as good as Classics at Oxford if not better in regards to getting into the city and reputation amongst city firms.

    If you want to be barrister, then you should aim for a first. Then you'd do the GDL then the BVC and after seek pupilage (?)
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    (Original post by Rybee)
    Again, just one of them people doing law for the sake of it...

    Don't know anything about the career, never shadowed a solicitor, never opened a textbook on law, never even read a case. Yet they find it so simple to plan to graduate from Oxbridge with a 1st, get their LPC/BVC paid for, join a magic circle firm and sip cocktails in Mayfair when they clock off at 4PM.

    Just to put it into perspective, there were 250 people doing straight LL.B Law in my year. Only one of them graduated with a first. Lewis.
    Sad things is many of those people probably make it in.

    Which university was this? 1/250 is insane...
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    (Original post by LoseSmallWinBig)
    Depends by what you mean by benefit you?

    Give you an extra imaginary tick? then yes.

    Get you over the line regardless of your personal qualities? then no.

    What subject are you doing at Ox/Cam? I don't necessarily think just going to Oxbridge now is enough to give you an edge over all those elsewhere even for legal careers. After all, I'd say LSE Law is just as good as Classics at Oxford if not better in regards to getting into the city and reputation amongst city firms.

    If you want to be barrister, then you should aim for a first. Then you'd do the GDL then the BVC and after seek pupilage (?)
    Yeah just meant the first one of course
    Philosophy - a natural feeder into law i'd guess?
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    (Original post by eeeeeh)
    Yeah just meant the first one of course
    Philosophy - a natural feeder into law i'd guess?
    Philosophy is a good subject for Law. I imagine you can apply for first year workshops as a fresher.. Have you considered city law? seems more welcoming to non-law students?
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    (Original post by LoseSmallWinBig)
    Philosophy is a good subject for Law. I imagine you can apply for first year workshops as a fresher.. Have you considered city law? seems more welcoming to non-law students?
    Not gonna lie I just googled city law , but yes that looks like exactly the kind of law I would go for - I'm guessing you'd have to do an intense amount of extra currics and stuff to get into city law though?
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    (Original post by eeeeeh)
    Not gonna lie I just googled city law , but yes that looks like exactly the kind of law I would go for - I'm guessing you'd have to do an intense amount of extra currics and stuff to get into city law though?
    Not really, you do need to be fairly interesting and have solid marks. Being a good looking girl can be a +. Had family in the industry in the past and some currently in or going into the industry. In short it's easier to get into the pinnacle of city law then it is to get into the chambers equivalent.

    Just pursue 2/3 societies and excel in them. Get good marks. You're better off then law students in this aspect, because a 60 in a random Philosophy module is not a deal breaker, a 60 % in Tort for law students and it could be game over.

    Going to Cambridge or wherever will have some pull. You can usually apply for these firms from first year onwards.

    http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/ have a look at this site.
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    (Original post by LoseSmallWinBig)
    Not really, you do need to be fairly interesting and have solid marks. Being a good looking girl can be a +. Had family in the industry in the past and some currently in or going into the industry. In short it's easier to get into the pinnacle of city law then it is to get into the chambers equivalent.

    Just pursue 2/3 societies and excel in them. Get good marks. You're better off then law students in this aspect, because a 60 in a random Philosophy module is not a deal breaker, a 60 % in Tort for law students and it could be game over.

    Going to Cambridge or whenever will have some pull. You can usually apply for these firms from first year onwards.

    http://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/ have a look at this site.
    thanks for this you're being very helpful - good deed of the day ticked off at 1 o'clock, not bad.
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    (Original post by eeeeeh)
    thanks for this you're being very helpful - good deed of the day ticked off at 1 o'clock, not bad.
    It's fine, glad to help.

    Probably not the best time to tell you that some firms pay 90k+ upon qualification (at around 24 or 25 depending on your route into law) allegedly in exchange for your life.
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    In my view Oxbridge is an advantage, especially if you are aiming for the very top firms and chambers in London which are the only places that will pay you 38k at 24.

    Not going to answer the other questions because you can find the answers on google.
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    (Original post by LoseSmallWinBig)
    Probably not the best time to tell you that some firms pay 90k+ upon qualification (at around 24 or 25 depending on your route into law) allegedly in exchange for your life.
    I'm curious why you thought that was worth telling?
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    Has anyone heard from Slaughters, Weil, Skadden or Latham?
 
 
 
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