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    I'm sick of people saying healthcare is a right. It isn't.

    Medical advances are the result of human invention in the same way that other technolgies are. People don't claim to have a right to own the latest sports car or the latest gadget, they have to earn the ability to buy them, the same should be true with medicine.

    Discuss.
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    I'm sick of people saying healthcare is a right. It isn't.

    Medical advances are the result of human invention in the same way that other technolgies are. People don't claim to have a right to own the latest sports car or the latest gadget, they have to earn the ability to buy them, the same should be true with medicine.

    Discuss.
    Rights are a social construct. They can effectively be whatever society deems them to be. However, speaking as a consequentialist, I think having the right to healthcare is a good thing as it minimises suffering. You can't argue that not having the latest sports car or gadget is in way measurable to the kind of suffering that not having access to medicine when you really need it can cause.
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    I'm sick of people saying healthcare is a right. It isn't.

    Medical advances are the result of human invention in the same way that other technolgies are. People don't claim to have a right to own the latest sports car or the latest gadget, they have to earn the ability to buy them, the same should be true with medicine.

    Discuss.
    Let me guess.

    Neo-liberal. Dreams of working as a financial trader, making millions. Feels no obligation to society other than to ensure it protects the wealth you create for yourself through it's legal and defence systems.

    Did you ever consider that medical scientists, doctors, health care professionals dedicate their talents and time to greater things than the accumulation of stuff like the "latest sports car or ... gadget"?

    This is why I didn't celebrate the sad passing of Mrs. Thatcher. She may have passed on but the greed is good culture herself and Senor Reagan created lives on, to the detriment of humanity.
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    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    Let me guess.

    Neo-liberal. Dreams of working as a financial trader, making millions. Feels no obligation to society other than to ensure it protects the wealth you create for yourself through it's legal and defence systems.

    Did you ever consider that medical scientists, doctors, health care professionals dedicate their talents and time to greater things than the accumulation of stuff like the "latest sports car or ... gadget"?

    This is why I didn't celebrate the sad passing of Mrs. Thatcher. She may have passed on but the greed is good culture herself and Senor Reagan created lives on, to the detriment of humanity.
    Let me guess.

    Socialist.
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    Healthcare is a right. Throughout human history, many cultures have actively sought the care and betterment of the sick and injured. Not just within humanity, either, other species of life also care for the sick within their respective groups.

    People have a right to be cared for, one of the many reasons I wholeheartedly support the NHS is that we all support the well-being of those who are ill, rather then leaving them to fend for themselves. If a sick child is kept well at the cost of a few pounds on my taxes, that's certainly a monthly-deduction I can live with, especially as I've used the NHS a good number of times also.

    The fact we pulled together after the Second World War to create a system that cares for all despite their financial circumstances or current situations is a unique example of its kind in documented history. Whilst the NHS isn't the only national health service on the planet, it is (at least as I heard) the largest. However, this isn't necessarily about just the NHS, I strongly believe everyone has the right to healthcare.

    In fact, I can't fathom a single argument against why healthcare shouldn't be a right.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    Let me guess.

    Socialist.

    Ah...

    Libertarians love to lob out the "s" word when somebody a little less right on the spectrum reminds them that they are not living in some lawless, frontier, every man for himself utopia but in a society which in all likelihood bestowed certain advantages and opportunities upon them.

    I'm a centre-left progressive who believes in a progressive tax system to afford top class healthcare to the vulnerable and education to those that are disadvantaged but ambitious.
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    In this country the nhs was set up to provide jealthcare that was free at the point of use.

    This was eroded fairly quickly with prescription charges and opticical charges etc,

    In this country free healthcare is indeed a right.

    In my ppinion it makes sense to ensure the health of a nation to keep them working? To have a viable army etc.


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    (Original post by DK_Tipp)
    Ah...

    Libertarians love to lob out the "s" word when somebody a little less right on the spectrum reminds them that they are not living in some lawless, frontier, every man for himself utopia but in a society which in all likelihood bestowed certain advantages and opportunities upon them.

    I'm a centre-left progressive who believes in a progressive tax system to afford top class healthcare to the vulnerable and education to those that are disadvantaged but ambitious.
    You're confusing it with anarchism. There is still law and government in libertarian models. There just isn't a government that controls every aspect of your life.

    Remind me why the US grew so rapidly and the USSR collapsed? I know it's an over-used example but it serves its purpose.
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    (Original post by RtGOAT)
    I'm sick of people saying healthcare is a right. It isn't.

    Medical advances are the result of human invention in the same way that other technolgies are. People don't claim to have a right to own the latest sports car or the latest gadget, they have to earn the ability to buy them, the same should be true with medicine.

    Discuss.
    Cars and gadgets are material things. Someone's health could be the difference between life and death.
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    I don't think that healthcare is a right, but then again I don't think there is any reason for private healthcare to cost as much as it does. Private care, expecially in places like America, is ver expensive because insurance companies stand between you and the provider.

    There is no reason for a standard checkup to cost an exorbitant amount. Insurance should be for rare, catastrophic injury or illness.

    It's not free healthcare I object to, just the way it's paid for. If there was a way to opt out, so you lose national insurance but also don't have to pay taxes for it anymore, I would be fine with that. I don't feel comfortable with forcibly extracting money from others.
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    The thing about 'rights' is that they're exactly what we decide they are. For example, the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution grants a 'right' to bear arms. We don't have that in the UK - because very few rights are absolute. There's no doctrine of universally accepted international law that says 'x is a right, y isn't' - countries and societies accept the introduction of certain rights because they believe it would be beneficial to their particular society to have it in place.

    However, I'd agree that being given healthcare, in the UK, isn't a 'right' per se - it's not covered by any legal definition of rights we've adopted (Human Rights Act, ECHR etc) and it wouldn't necessarily be illegal for the government to abolish the NHS (although it would be ridiculously unpopular). Thus, as it stands, free healthcare in the UK is simply an entitlement - i.e. you're granted it by law but a change in the law can take it away again - whereas rights are supposedly far harder/impossible to remove.
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    The only thing a thread like this is going to prove is that everybody has wildly varying opinions of what constitutes a "right".
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    You're confusing it with anarchism. There is still law and government in libertarian models. There just isn't a government that controls every aspect of your life.

    Remind me why the US grew so rapidly and the USSR collapsed? I know it's an over-used example but it serves its purpose.

    The law and governments main function is to protect property rights and peoples safety under Libertarian philosophy. In fact I think it's quite similar to what we have today, the main roles of Western governments are often law and order, counter-terrorism and protecting financial institutions. Providing public service almost seems to be an after thought which they often just chuck (tax payers) money at.

    Also, where exactly did I advocate Soviet style state socialism? (I use the term socialism loosely here.)
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    The right to life gives rise to a right to healthcare.
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    (Original post by Jingers)
    The right to life gives rise to a right to healthcare.
    Nonsense.

    Having a 'right' to healthcare makes about as much sense as a right to plumbing or hairdressing.

    Do you have a right to force others to provide you with a service free of charge?

    If you believe so I'd like to see your justification.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    Nonsense.

    Having a 'right' to healthcare makes about as much sense as a right to plumbing or hairdressing.

    Do you have a right to force others to provide you with a service free of charge?

    If you believe so I'd like to see your justification.
    How are you equating the basic right to life to having nice hair or good plumbing?
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    There is no right and wrong answer our rights are defined by who we elect. If we believe in a right to healthcare then naturally you elect a political party that believes in free healthcare.
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    (Original post by Jingers)
    How are you equating the basic right to life to having nice hair or good plumbing?
    You're (deliberately?) confusing positive and negative rights.

    You have a right to life to the extent that nobody else should be free to kill you unjustly (a negative right), but that doesn't equate to free healthcare which amounts to a financial burden on other people.

    A right to life and a right to bandages aren't the same thing.
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    (Original post by chefdave)
    You're (deliberately?) confusing positive and negative rights.

    You have a right to life to the extent that nobody else should be free to kill you unjustly (a negative right), but that doesn't equate to free healthcare which amounts to a financial burden on other people.

    A right to life and a right to bandages aren't the same thing.
    You're equating the right to life to having nice hair and good plumbing.
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    (Original post by Jingers)
    You're equating the right to life to having nice hair and good plumbing.
    A right to life and a right to healthcare aren't the same thing.

    Why can't you see this?

    Are you saying you only have a right to life saving treatment?
 
 
 
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