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A-Levels to MIT / Berkeley

Hi,
I have all A/A* at GCSE and A at physics, maths, etc AS levels. I was wondering how difficult it would be for me to take SATs and if I have to learn anything new. I am good at English and do A level maths, physics. Would it be difficult for me to take SATs and other exams to enter MIT (Aeronautics or Computing) or Berkeley (Computing)?


Thanks.

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Reply 1
Well, regardless of anything, getting into MIT or Berkely will be quite difficult, especially an international Student.
You will need to take SAT I, and three SAT IIs, one of which must be Maths Level IIC. Taking an interview with your local MIT alumini will help. Pay particular attention to your essays and get excellent recommendations from teachers and your councellor/principal. You should also have many extracirricular activities.
Reply 2
aiman
Well, regardless of anything, getting into MIT or Berkely will be quite difficult, especially an international Student.
You will need to take SAT I, and three SAT IIs, one of which must be Maths Level IIC. Taking an interview with your local MIT alumini will help. Pay particular attention to your essays and get excellent recommendations from teachers and your councellor/principal. You should also have many extracirricular activities.

Does it make a difference being American or not for undergraduate/postgraduate?

How difficult are the SATS compared to maths alevels and English GCSE?

Thanks.
Reply 3
silkweed
For MIT, showing examples of your interest in your field is a good idea - a published research paper, an extensive project, etc.

Hold on. Now I'd be the first to jump up and say MIT is a top place, but to mention "published research papers" in anything to with undergraduate applications is completely OTT, and misleading.

:smile:
Reply 4
silkweed
Really? I know quite a few people who applied/ are applying to Ivy League schools and such which have done things like that, and it's definitely helped their application (in terms of those successful, and those not). For MIT, I would say science projects that went far with well developed papers will be a definite plus, especially if they're sponsored by a college [mine last year was, for example]. I know people who've done huge research projects at colleges during the summer and presented them, which is another good example. My friend did one at a Agricultural Governor's School during the summer - she's going into veterinary studies. Of course not everyone has something like that, but I'd saying having unique accomplishments is a huge part of the process, in terms of being successful, and just showing them what you're passionate about - whatever that may be! Also, being British I know that the hype over ECs is a very american thing, and wanted to let the poster know that standing out beyond grades will be very important. This is just my experience, anyway. :smile:

I'm sorry to sound rude, but do you actually know what it means to "publish a research paper"? It amounts to saying you've made a significant contribution to an area of research; enough that it should be published for other researchers to read and take note from. To do this, you need to know enough to understand research level material (which is usually mininum degree + PhD), let alone make significant advances in it. This is NOT what people have under their belts when they apply for an undergraduate degree (apart from perhaps a handful of child prodigies over the last century).

I think perhaps it's your use of the word "research" and "publish" which causes the problem. In the context of academia, "research" is the stuff the Professors and Lectures spend the majority of their time doing - working on cutting edge material to enhance the human race's understanding of certain areas. When a certain piece of research has been deemed important enough that lots of other people should see it, it gets published. For instance, Einstein's first work on the Theory of Relativity was a "published research paper".

:smile:
Reply 5
You can often join in summer programs at universities/research institutes and work alongside professionals, (PhDs usually) and conduct research. The research doesn't have to be somthing big like the theory of relativity, and you can simply submit is as a co-researcher.
MIT also emphasises on creativity, and therefore, allows you to send them any artwork/creative piece that you have made, including designs for gadgets (they don't have to be perfectly workable, remeber creativity), etc.
Reply 6
aiman
You can often join in summer programs at universities/research institutes and work alongside professionals, (PhDs usually) and conduct research. The research doesn't have to be somthing big like the theory of relativity, and you can simply submit is as a co-researcher.

What world are you people living in? If you can find a link to a paper that's been co-produced by a high school student, I'd much appreciate it. The reason PhD students are all in their twenties is because it takes years to get to that standard. You can't just walk in, make a few cups of coffee for the researcher and get credit for a published work. I'm about to start a PhD, and it would be totally impossible to a high school student to come in and help - they wouldn't have the first clue what I was doing. At the very most, they could do some menial computations - and they sure as hell aren't going to be listed as coproducer of a paper for that.

I notice you're both quite young, so it's understandable that you haven't yet got an idea of what constitutes research. But believe me when I say that talking about "published research papers" in the context of an undergraduate application is a total fallacy. If you were already publishing work, you wouldn't be applying for a place on an undergraduate course.
Reply 7
We live in the US. You're right getting a published paper is not likely. More often, you can attend a University summer program, conduct some research with one of the professors and make a report on the the research. This report is viewed quite highly by institutes such as MIT.
Reply 8
aiman
We live in the US. You're right getting a published paper is not likely. More often, you can attend a University summer program, conduct some research with one of the professors and make a report on the the research. This report is viewed quite highly by institutes such as MIT.

I'm aware you're both in the US - it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to my point. Whatever students are doing at these summer programs, it won't be anything like what constitutes research (in the context of academia). And it wont result in students coproducing papers.

I just want to make people aware that talking of "published research papers" in the context of undergraduate applications is a total farce, and misleading. :smile:
silkweed
you need ECs (not 'president of ___' but something really impressive)

How impressive do you need to be? Surely they take in a certain amount of all-rounders ever year, who aren't incredible at anything but quite good at a number?
Reply 10
thinking of applying to MIT as well
am taking further maths, physics, english lit. and a bunch of others + I know a level credit is taken into account
in terms of extra-curricular stuff I guess you just have to be outstanding. The essays definitely help.

Just sat my SAT as well...should be getting the results on wednesday. It's all about technique. 0 extra skill/academic ability required.
Reply 11
silkweed
No offence taken.

I'm glad to hear it. Now I hope you'll take the following in a similar light...
silkweed
Like Aiman pointed out, the US is quite different in terms of what's done especially during the summer by ambitious high school students. At the undergraduate level research work is encouraged. In fact, during my admitted students tour of a college in VA a chemistry professor actually encouraged freshman to join a research group during the summer and get paid to contribute to a post graduate's research work. He said that a few students had even branched out on their own and written papers on it.

Right, I'm going to make this about as clear as I possibly can - pre-university students are not going to these programs and conducting research (in the academic sense of the word). They may well go and help in labs, but this is far, far, far away from conducting research. They will not be coproducing any papers, and they will not be "branching out on their own". Why on earth would these people bother with an undergraduate degree if they already have the knowledge and ability to conduct research of their own.

With regards to the similarities between here and the US - several (about 6) people I know will be going off to do PhDs in America next year, in places like Harvard, Princeton, UCLA and Yale - so I know enough to realise that you're totally misusing the word "research", "publish" and "papers". Here are some examples of some pretty non-earth shattering research papers:

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0601/0601016.pdf
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/nlin/pdf/0605/0605041.pdf
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/math/pdf/0605/0605635.pdf

These are "published research papers", within which pretty much all the material is way beyond degree level material. I hope this makes it clearer as to why I think you're misusing the terms. Students of your age don't have the knowledge to simply go and study for a few months and crack out a paper on something or other (Newton-esque child prodigies aside). I've got A-Levels, a degree and a post graduate course (almost) under my belt, and I very much doubt I could bring together something worth publishing over one summer of work.
silkweed
I doubt many people have made discoveries quite as ground breaking as the Theory of Relativity, and I certainly doubt the papers are anything like as in depth as a phD dissertation, but some of the work that select students do is quite impressive and can help an applicant to places such as MIT in the US.

I'm sure they all work very hard on these programs, and some excel in whatever tasks they're given. But these tasks do NOT involve their own research and producing original work. As I mentioned before, it's no suprise you don't have a very good idea of what constitutes "research" because of your age, and the stage your at in your academic life. But take it from someone who might know a little more (I'm far from an expert), that talking of "published research papers" in the context of undergraduate applications is a total farce, and misleading.
Reply 12
How impressive do you need to be? Surely they take in a certain amount of all-rounders ever year, who aren't incredible at anything but quite good at a number?


silkweed is quite right, I have to say. I applied for Electronics Engineering, had some wonderful recommendations from both my teacher and councellor. My essays were quite good as well, and my SAT scores weren't bad. I had won numerous awards and was a very active extracirricular participant. I founded my schools' Students Association, along with other things.
But i still didn't get in :frown:. I didn't call them up to ask why my application had been rejected, though. I can't really see any shortcomings, (other than perhaps not submitting a research paper), so I assume its to do with luck. As silkweed mentioned earlier, they do have a very large number of applicants, so I some-what doubt that they'll let you in if you don't show anything you excel. I hope I didn't discourage you or anything.
silkweed
I doubt many people have made discoveries quite as ground breaking as the Theory of Relativity
But then only about a dozen or so theories in science have ever been that ground breaking.
silkweed
but some of the work that select students do is quite impressive and can help an applicant to places such as MIT in the US.
Ah, but that is not the same as 'published work'. To say "I worked with Prof. Bob at the Uni of Somewhere for 2 months on the properties of partly permeable membranes and their applications to biofiltration systems" on your CV is one thing, so claim "I have published work in the area of partly permeable membranes and their applications to biofiltration systems" is to imply you have published in a journal material of sufficently complex and innovative ideas/approaches/techniques that it has furthered our understanding of that area enough to warrant telling other people. If you just run some standard tests and typed up a report, that's not worthy of publishing, but it is worthy of mentioning on a CV because you've shown that you're interested in your area beyond just that of the class room and have some hands on experience.

As an example, a friend of my fathers submitted a paper for publishing but had it returned saying "You need to provide statistical validation for your claims". He's asked me if I can crunch some numbers since he's nearly mathematically inept. Without me doing some stats for him, the paper isn't publishable. Once I've done the stats for him though I don't intend for me to be named as a coauthor or whatnot. Running numbers through Excel hardly makes me worthy of that, but it's the kind of thing that you can mention on a CV if you're trying to 'massage' it a bit, helping with material which later became a published paper, not "I coauthored published material on metal ion dispersion within turbulent flows".
Reply 14

When I went through the application procedure, it was simply a common term used - 'published research papers', 'presenting research' or the like - and if that is misleading in the academic sense of the word, which I cannot understand fully at my level but which you have explained, then I would just refer the above poster to both my comments and aiman's regarding what I meant about independent research and summer work, and remind him that it would be very helpful for his application if he has the opportunity.

Exactly.
silkweed
So, take it with a pinch of salt, I suppose. In a way it's ridiculous that ECs can mean so much when you're applying to an academic institution, but with approximately 26,000 applicants they have to narrow the pool down somehow.

I quite like the idea, I reckon it's one of the reasons America is ahead of most countries right now - they value well-roundedness and believe in specialisation at a later date, while our system values people who do one thing very very well and doesn't care about the rest (ECs etc.). It's just a shame that I'm not incredibly talented at any of my ECs heh.
aiman
silkweed is quite right, I have to say. I applied for Electronics Engineering, had some wonderful recommendations from both my teacher and councellor. My essays were quite good as well, and my SAT scores weren't bad. I had won numerous awards and was a very active extracirricular participant. I founded my schools' Students Association, along with other things.
But i still didn't get in :frown:. I didn't call them up to ask why my application had been rejected, though. I can't really see any shortcomings, (other than perhaps not submitting a research paper), so I assume its to do with luck. As silkweed mentioned earlier, they do have a very large number of applicants, so I some-what doubt that they'll let you in if you don't show anything you excel. I hope I didn't discourage you or anything.

Hmm, depends how you define 'excel'. I'm pretty good at a number of my ECs, but none of them to a national/international level. The American universities advisor at school is pretty certain it doesn't matter, the emphasis is on participation and 'community spirit', but maybe you guys are right.
Reply 17
I'm going to go a little off-tangent here but I'd like to ask how students from th humanities stream can contribute to the publicshing of such "research papers" exactly? Where can we find such resources or opportunities? It does seem very elusive to me and will certainly impress me a whole load if an undergraduate can co-author or in any meaningful way contribute towards the publishing of a research journal!
Reply 18
Nutter
I'm going to go a little off-tangent here but I'd like to ask how students from th humanities stream can contribute to the publicshing of such "research papers" exactly? Where can we find such resources or opportunities? It does seem very elusive to me and will certainly impress me a whole load if an undergraduate can co-author or in any meaningful way contribute towards the publishing of a research journal!


These opportunities basically don't exist. I defy anyone to show me a paper to which any undergrad has contributed.

This sort of thing is purely jumping through hoops, and illustrates what's wrong with the US system; it's just about they length of the list of work placements and societies that your highly-placed mummy and daddy, and exclusive private school have encouraged you to pursue.
Reply 19
-mb-
These opportunities basically don't exist. I defy anyone to show me a paper to which any undergrad has contributed.

This sort of thing is purely jumping through hoops, and illustrates what's wrong with the US system; it's just about they length of the list of work placements and societies that your highly-placed mummy and daddy, and exclusive private school have encouraged you to pursue.

Fair enough, but what about opportunities to serve in less conspicuous positions where you do not write the research journal yourself per se, but rather make other contributions (like even the simple crunching of numbers, or superficial research) which are nevertheless important?