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    it should be the people that make the place better, not the amount of money you throw at them.
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    just to lend the voice of an American...
    Over here, most of the ivy league is considered superior to Oxbridge. The mention of "Oxford" definately carries prestige, but if you mention "Cambridge", most people assume that your talking about a community college in Cambridge, massachusetts (ignorant, I know).

    Oxbridge is extremely prestigious with those who are familiar with it--it seems to have an "exotic" factor. However, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford and Princeton are considered more impressive.

    I myself applied to both systems. I am probably leaning towards accepting a place in the US--depending on where I get in.

    With regards to an undergraduate education, Oxbridge seems to offer a more personalized and better education (though not as broad). On the graduate level, the opportunities, funding, faculty, research and facilities seem to be much much better over here.

    It depends on what you're looking for, I guess.
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    (Original post by adxj220)
    just to lend the voice of an American...
    Over here, most of the ivy league is considered superior to Oxbridge. The mention of "Oxford" definately carries prestige, but if you mention "Cambridge", most people assume that your talking about a community college in Cambridge, massachusetts (ignorant, I know).

    Oxbridge is extremely prestigious with those who are familiar with it--it seems to have an "exotic" factor. However, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford and Princeton are considered more impressive.

    I myself applied to both systems. I am probably leaning towards accepting a place in the US--depending on where I get in.

    With regards to an undergraduate education, Oxbridge seems to offer a more personalized and better education (though not as broad). On the graduate level, the opportunities, funding, faculty, research and facilities seem to be much much better over here.

    It depends on what you're looking for, I guess.
    from the people i know of that have gone to ivy league unis they seem like a croc of ****. They work the hell out of their students to the point that college life is a dreary as possible. Because of the stupid american laws (can't drive and owna gun at the age of about 10, but can't have a beer till 21) people tend more towards cannabis than alcohol.
    It's just a really unsociable environment.
    People in america are too stupid to realise that there is a good reason half their best unis are in an area/county called CAMBRIDGE.
    J
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    yeh i was going to do it, but was advised against. Basically MIT sucks compared to cambridge. if it had be cambridge and princeton harvard or yale then it would have been more comparitive
    J
    haha someone took real exception to this, posting the following negative comment
    "what are you on about? talking out of your arse! MIT is better than oxbridge, don't kid yourself that it ain't"

    I'd just like to point out to that moron, that even in the most DUBIOUS world league tables of universities i have ever seen drawn up, cambridge comes above MIT.
    MIT is nothing, it's nowhere. That is why i was advised against going there. Its a top american uni, hence is a socially inept haven of rich kids. No one anywhere other than america has heard of it, because theres princeton, yale, stamford, harvard etc all of them alot bigger names. And none still sound anything near as impressive as Cambridge or oxford.
    So i ask the poster of the rep, really, in all honesty. Why in gods name would anyone want to exchange a year here, for a year there?
    J
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    You must keep some rather idiotic American company (or perhaps in general). Most people I know in the US enjoy themselves at university, don't work too hard, drink if and as much as they please (the age requirement is basically meaningless--if you actually believe that this affects the social scene in any way)--and are really quite sociable. On the contrary, reports from friends at Oxbridge and the ivy leage have given me the impression that the social scene over here, particularly in actual city-schools (boston, new york, chicago etc.), is a lot better. Campus visits and experiences have given me the same sense. And no you cannot own a gun or drive at the age of 10.

    "People in america are too stupid to realise that there is a good reason half their best unis are in an area/county called CAMBRIDGE."
    --Your head appears to be too far up your ass to make a comment more intelligent than this.

    "I'd just like to point out to that moron, that even in the most DUBIOUS world league tables of universities i have ever seen drawn up, cambridge comes above MIT.
    MIT is nothing, it's nowhere. That is why i was advised against going there. Its a top american uni, hence is a socially inept haven of rich kids. No one anywhere other than america has heard of it, because theres princeton, yale, stamford, harvard etc all of them alot bigger names. And none still sound anything near as impressive as Cambridge or oxford."
    --Again, you seem to be the moron here. Allow me to dismantle your argument: 1) I have seen, heard, read and researched the fact that American unis tend to be a lot more diverse, inclusive and open-minded than Oxbridge (which has problems with such issues). Hardly a place for "socially inept rich kids". If anything, you have given me the impression that Oxbridge students are obnoxious, self-glorifying brats. (Actually, that's just you. I know most are very nice, and I couldn't make rash, sweeping generalizations.) In fact, the top-tier unis here are significantly more intellectually and socially vibrant/interesting/diverse--the social scene as well. Stop spouting insecure nonsense.

    2) Its interesting...I have been advised against going to Cambridge by my own father, a cambridge alum, and by a cambridge tutor as well--but perhaps this is a cultural bias, since you also claim to have been advised against MIT.

    3) MIT is easily more selective than Stanford or Princeton. On the same level as Harvard and Yale. For the sciences, economics and political science, MIT ranks above or equal to harvard, yale, princeton etc. It is incredibly well-regarded, easily on the same (or above, perhaps below, depending on subject) level as Harvard.

    4) As for "no one anywhere other than america has heard of it". Pure BS, nonsense, rubbish, crap. I have lived abroad for much of my life. My family is very international, and we're not white Americans. Everywhere i have lived, MiT has been held in incredible regard. All the people I have spoken to from around the world (including the UK and Europeans) indicate similar sentiments. If anything, MIT has a greater and faster growing international reputation than any other uni in the world.

    5) Again, I have heard this from Oxbridge alums and a tutor, americans, europeans, indians, french, canadians, swiss, malaysians, indonesians and chinese: In terms of reputatation, Oxbridge is roughly equal to HYPMS, perhaps a bit less (and weakening, as political influence, research, professors, applicants, and money shifts even more towards the US ).

    6) As for these supposed tables...I have seen MANY that rank MIT ahead of Oxbridge. Don't even claim such skewed/false statistics.

    I may have comeoff as defensive, but that isn't my intent. I didn't even apply to MIT. I have been accepted to Cambridge. My father and uncle went to Oxbridge. One cousin goes to Oxford, one will be going to MIT. I just felt that Foolfarian needed to get a sense of reality and wake up from his close-mindededness.

    Oxbridge and MIt are all fantastic schools--but don't allow insecurity, or patriotism, or whatever to cloud your judgment.
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    (Original post by foolfarian)
    haha someone took real exception to this, posting the following negative comment
    "what are you on about? talking out of your arse! MIT is better than oxbridge, don't kid yourself that it ain't"

    I'd just like to point out to that moron, that even in the most DUBIOUS world league tables of universities i have ever seen drawn up, cambridge comes above MIT.
    MIT is nothing, it's nowhere. That is why i was advised against going there. Its a top american uni, hence is a socially inept haven of rich kids. No one anywhere other than america has heard of it, because theres princeton, yale, stamford, harvard etc all of them alot bigger names. And none still sound anything near as impressive as Cambridge or oxford.
    So i ask the poster of the rep, really, in all honesty. Why in gods name would anyone want to exchange a year here, for a year there?
    J
    Oh my God Foolfarian, are you really at Cambridge?

    If so, then I believe there was a drastic error in the admission process... Someone like you, who studies at one of the world's greatest universities, should know better than making stupid, absolutely fallacious arguments about other nations and institutions.

    Saying that MIT is nowhere, that no one knows it is the silliest thing I have heard in my entire life. MIT is one of the world's leading universities in virtually every subject. Their research opportunities are certainly better than Cambridge, because of their massive endowment.

    How can you be so ignorant as to making such comments about MIT and the US? We're living in a world that is constantly globalizing and your attitude is very narrow-minded. I'm no advocate of MIT or the USA, but I certainly think that they have great universities and solid education system.

    I will be going to King's College, Cambridge this October and I just hope that the number of people who think the way you do, not just about MIT or America, but about the world, is very very low.
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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    But that's just the thing. It quite blatantly isn't the answer to the funding problem, and even universities themselves have admitted that. Top-up fees are a short-term quick fix which probably won't put any money back into the system anyway.
    i personally believe it's a snowball effect. get a bit of "seed" money, start attracting talent. with the talent, comes more investments, more money, more talent, more investments, more money... you get the idea.

    and this whole argument is basically the "oxbridge - which is better" argument carried over to the "atlantic - which side is better" situation. and i can see it turning into one of those playground "my toy is better than yours" arguments shortly...

    seriously now, do you really think that once people start working, that the employers are going to cut you any slack or do you any significant favours if you're a lousy worker with a glitzy degree? admittedly, a good degree will get you a foot onto the path of a good career, but the rest of the work is still up to you. and anyway, in this case, a "good" degree could come from any of the abovementioned universities, all of which have a deservedly worldwide reputation.

    so let's all head down to the pub, get drunk like the party animals/part-time students we are, and sod this pointless argument *i'm so going to crash and burn for my tripos, but what the heck, if i'm going down, let's do it in a glorious fashion...*
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    What an interesting thread....but foolfarian you sound like a pompous arse, if you're really like that in the real world(people do tend to hide behind their internet personas here) you're gonna fall on your backside

    You're a medic right? For a sciency person I can't believe you've totally dismissed MIT as you have, you must be terribly ignorant on goings on outside of your current uni.....someone needs a reality check hehe.

    They're both very good obviously, I really think it's silly to dismiss one so easily.
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    (Original post by BossLady)
    What an interesting thread....but foolfarian you sound like a pompous arse, if you're really like that in the real world(people do tend to hide behind their internet personas here) you're gonna fall on your backside

    You're a medic right? For a sciency person I can't believe you've totally dismissed MIT as you have, you must be terribly ignorant on goings on outside of your current uni.....someone needs a reality check hehe.

    They're both very good obviously, I really think it's silly to dismiss one so easily.
    See by doing the whole pompous self-gratification dance you can make out that I'm talking crap. Poblem is that I'm not. When i was looking into the exchange program I asked loads of people about it. People had vaguely heard of MIT, but not of any significant work. The people coming back from doing a year there all said (bar one guy who dated some girl for his time there) that it was socially turd. Granted mind you, the people I mix with my well have taken issue to the fact that you can't get a drink out there.

    adxj220 :- I wasn't meaning literally about driving at the age of 10 you prat. But it is still ridiculous that a 16 year old can be in control of a 4x4, and a 20 year can't be in control of a pint.
    "by a cambridge tutor" a cambridge tutor honestly said 'you don't want to come here'. K.
    " MIT is easily more selective than Stanford or Princeton. On the same level as Harvard and Yale. For the sciences, economics and political science, MIT ranks above or equal to harvard, yale, princeton etc. It is incredibly well-regarded, easily on the same (or above, perhaps below, depending on subject) level as Harvard."
    That may as well be, what you fail to see is that for medicine Edinburgh and newcastle are rated better. So why not go there for a year? well because it adds nothing to your cv. it might be worth doing because they are much more fun cities than cambridge, but alas the program is only to MIT.
    "Everywhere i have lived, MiT has been held in incredible regard" my experience has been a case of "wheres that then?". thats all i can say
    "As for these supposed tables...I have seen MANY that rank MIT ahead of Oxbridge. Don't even claim such skewed/false statistics." hahaha how can you tell which table is skewed and false. Surely you've heard the quote 'lies, damned lies and statistics' I've only ever seen one 'league table' and i think the whole concept of it is stupid. besides, they put such a high rating on finance that the american unis are catapulted beyond the reach of most other unis in the world.

    Omer:-
    1) you'll find us undergrads don't get much oportunity to do research, here or in the US.
    2) The world can globalise as much as it likes. That still doesn't change my OPINION (which people seem to have distorted) that it would be pointless to exchange from cambridge to MIT. You just see if you disagree in a couple years time (actually that said you probably will disagree what with all the new costs of going to uni)

    Bosslady:- "I can't believe you've totally dismissed MIT as you have, you must be terribly ignorant on goings on outside of your current uni.....someone needs a reality check"
    Tell me what has been going on with regards to MIT?
    like i keep saying, if it were a name i and the people i respect recognise (like John Hopkins, harvard etc - even St Judes in memphis) then i would sit up and take notice.


    A tutor summed up the situation beautifully long ago - "you wouldn't change from Imperial to Luton. There's a lot in a name"

    J
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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    That may well be the case but British universities can't go on forever relying upon their prestige without having any substance to back it up. The funding here just isn't sufficient for them, and although they may be able to hold onto their world class reputation at the moment I can't see that being the case for very much longer without a drastic overhaul of university funding.
    Dunno about that. I would NEVER go to any American university, simply because they're American. Sheer academic reputation is not the only parameter when choosing where you want to go, and so European Universities may prosper in spite of lack of funding etc., purely because they are not located in a culture vacuum.
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    So there.
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    (Original post by oldthrashbarg)
    So there.
    mark twain was an american. an inconsistent vacuum. so there
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    (Original post by UndiscoverdSelf)
    mark twain was an american. an inconsistent
    vacuum. so there
    You take a rather simplified view of things if you think that every person from a civilised European country is going to be well mannered and cultured, while every American is going to act like a mindless jerk. I admit however that my signature quote may cause confusion for people like you who take such a view, and I shall therefore remove it at once.
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    JoeyJohns - not watching the rugby then?
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    (Original post by oldthrashbarg)
    You take a rather simplified view of things if you think that every person from a civilised European country is going to be well mannered and cultured, while every American is going to act like a mindless jerk. I admit however that my signature -uote may cause confusion for people like you who take such a view, and I shall therefore remove it at once.
    blimey, you must be an american to be this inconsistent
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    joey johns is consistent and not american.
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    (Original post by UndiscoverdSelf)
    blimey, you must be an american to be this inconsistent
    What do you mean?
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    (Original post by foolfarian)

    Bosslady:- "I can't believe you've totally dismissed MIT as you have, you must be terribly ignorant on goings on outside of your current uni.....someone needs a reality check"
    Tell me what has been going on with regards to MIT?
    like i keep saying, if it were a name i and the people i respect recognise (like John Hopkins, harvard etc - even St Judes in memphis) then i would sit up and take notice.
    and
    (Original post by foolfarian)
    MIT is nothing, it's nowhere.
    http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/nobels.html

    Article "57 MIT-related Nobel Prize winners
    include faculty, researchers, alumni and staff "

    I wouldn't call that nothing.
    Now that may not have been as many as your univ I imagine, but MIT hasn't been around that long and still seems to be doing VERY well.

    Oh btw I am not a medic so I haven't heard of them(I know some of the physics and econ ones tho ) but here:

    MIT-related Nobelists by discipline
    Medicine/Physiology (8):
    Khorana, Luria, Baltimore, Tonegawa, Thomas, Sharp, Hartwell, Horvitz
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    (Original post by oldthrashbarg)
    Dunno about that. I would NEVER go to any American university, simply because they're American. Sheer academic reputation is not the only parameter when choosing where you want to go, and so European Universities may prosper in spite of lack of funding etc., purely because they are not located in a culture vacuum.
    I wouldn't say theres a cultural vacuum. I don't like huge aspects. How could a nation with the most diverse of communities which spans such a massive distance demand such uniformity. All the big american exports pride themselves on the fact they are always the same
    J
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    (Original post by BossLady)
    and


    http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/nobels.html

    Article "57 MIT-related Nobel Prize winners
    include faculty, researchers, alumni and staff "

    I wouldn't call that nothing.
    Now that may not have been as many as your univ I imagine, but MIT hasn't been around that long and still seems to be doing VERY well.

    Oh btw I am not a medic so I haven't heard of them(I know some of the physics and econ ones tho ) but here:

    MIT-related Nobelists by discipline
    Medicine/Physiology (8):
    Khorana, Luria, Baltimore, Tonegawa, Thomas, Sharp, Hartwell, Horvitz
    A life lesson chuck, always do a bit of research before lifting names straight off of a university website.
    The site actually says 'MIT related academics'. You have to remember people win nobel prizes some years after the actual work.
    Hence of those names a few are old MIT grads who have gone on to do great work (at other universities). Some are people who did great work elsewhere, and have won a prize since coming to MIT (their work was done somewhere else though). And some have won nobel prizes for work done before going to MIT, and won the prize after leaving MIT!!!

    I only recognise Hartwell off that list, and he certainly isnt at MIT, last i heard he was in seattle. And he has 1/3 of the prize with 2 british academics at imperial cancer research getting the other 2/3.
    J
 
 
 
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