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widening access
I was wondering which university people thought had the most active and successful widening access scheme. I am from a comprehensive which is classed as ‘inner city’ ( although its quite good) and my family has absolutely no history of higher education.
I was put off applying to Oxbridge by the stereotypes which numerous people told me about, and the fact that people said I shouldn’t bother applying with my GCSE results (3 A* 5As 2B’s).
Although I have got very good offers from other universities this year (I’ve put Durham as my firm )but recently- unfortunately after the UCAS deadline a teacher has been saying I have the potential for Oxbridge and that I should reapply in my gap year if I get AAA in my A levels.
Basically I was wondering if either of the universities would make allowances for my GCSE’s and out of Oxford and Cambridge which one had the least private/state school divide?
Thank you
I was put off applying to Oxbridge by the stereotypes which numerous people told me about, and the fact that people said I shouldn’t bother applying with my GCSE results (3 A* 5As 2B’s).
Although I have got very good offers from other universities this year (I’ve put Durham as my firm )but recently- unfortunately after the UCAS deadline a teacher has been saying I have the potential for Oxbridge and that I should reapply in my gap year if I get AAA in my A levels.
Basically I was wondering if either of the universities would make allowances for my GCSE’s and out of Oxford and Cambridge which one had the least private/state school divide?
Thank you
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AFAIK, Cambridge have slightly more state pupils than Oxford, but it's not a huge difference. There WILL be lots more private school pupils than you have encountered before but in truth, everyone will tell you it matters very little where you went to school once you're here.
Your GCSEs are honestly not that bad - possibly slightly below average but not drastically so, and you should not be put off applying. Both universities have very active access schemes and I don't know enough about either to be able to say which is better. If you want to apply, then do it - you can reapply to other universities as well, and if you have AAA then you won't get rejected from everywhere, for sure!
Out of interest, what subject would you be applying for, and what grade have you got in it for GCSE and A-Level?
Your GCSEs are honestly not that bad - possibly slightly below average but not drastically so, and you should not be put off applying. Both universities have very active access schemes and I don't know enough about either to be able to say which is better. If you want to apply, then do it - you can reapply to other universities as well, and if you have AAA then you won't get rejected from everywhere, for sure!
Out of interest, what subject would you be applying for, and what grade have you got in it for GCSE and A-Level?
don't worry about your gcses, the colleges have both quantiative and qualitative ways of putting your gcse grades in context, and the difference is well recognised. similarly don't worry about snobbery when you get here. go ahead, apply you're in a good position to.
Helenia
Out of interest, what subject would you be applying for, and what grade have you got in it for GCSE and A-Level?
I would be applying for geography,for GCSE got an A*(99%
) and for AS got an A ( including an A in every module if they look at modules?) and hopefully an A at A2. I don’t mind public school students its just things people have been telling me have really put me off such as the ‘pitt club’ and a friend of mine who was at an open day at Cambridge said there were a lot of people there discussing the rivalries between their public schools, and he was just left there on his own.
Your GCSEs are fine, I achieved similar results and I attend quite a good school. So considering the context, I'm sure your results would be considered very good.
when I go to banking events and meet people one of the things they often ask first is "what school did you go to?" and I feel like screaming "WHY ARE YOU ASKING? YOU WOULDN'T KNOW IT, UNLESS OF COURSE YOU KNOW ALL THE SCHOOLS IN ENGLAND." (though I usually respond with "a school in north manchester"... and a chuckle at the fact they go to Sheffield and will never get into banking)
Now I'm not sure what makes people think it's okay to open a conversation with that, EVER, but it doesn't happen in Cambridge. a.) People genuinely don't think to ask, and (b) if you did you'd get yourself a reputation as an antisocial freak.
Now I'm not sure what makes people think it's okay to open a conversation with that, EVER, but it doesn't happen in Cambridge. a.) People genuinely don't think to ask, and (b) if you did you'd get yourself a reputation as an antisocial freak.
there are of course plenty of public school boys and girls at both, but when i was at oxford for interview, the vast vast majority of people were completely normal. I was asked by one person (fellow interviewee) whether i went to a state or private school, to which my reply was "excuse me?!?" (he had quite a posh accent from my pov), but it turned out he went to a state school and was worried he was like the only one.
Remember that while roughly 50% of students at both are from private schools, most private schools are far removed from the Eton/Harrow type schools that are stereotyped so much. The likes of the Bullingdon (rich boys drinking club) aren't mainstream and their appalling behaviour is looked down upon by pretty much everyone.
There will be plenty of people there from normal backgrounds just like yourself, so really don't be put off from applying. If you apply to oxford, your interviews will be spread across a couple of days, and it really gives you a chance to get a feel for the place, so if you're unsure about it all still, oxford might be the better option? (plus it's a way better university than cambridge anyway :P )
Remember that while roughly 50% of students at both are from private schools, most private schools are far removed from the Eton/Harrow type schools that are stereotyped so much. The likes of the Bullingdon (rich boys drinking club) aren't mainstream and their appalling behaviour is looked down upon by pretty much everyone.
There will be plenty of people there from normal backgrounds just like yourself, so really don't be put off from applying. If you apply to oxford, your interviews will be spread across a couple of days, and it really gives you a chance to get a feel for the place, so if you're unsure about it all still, oxford might be the better option? (plus it's a way better university than cambridge anyway :P )
I was in a very similar situation to you in that I go to a comprehensive, my family has no history of higher education and I didn't think my grades (which are worse than yours- 1 A*, 6 As, 3 Bs) were good enough, but I applied to Cambridge anyway and got an offer. As far as the posh private school stereotypes go, my perceptions completely changed when I went for open day and interviews. Everyone I met was really down to earth and friendly and not a single person asked me what type of school I went to. I really don't think it's as big an issue as everyone makes it out to be, and unless you mention it, the chances are no one else will either. Both universities take your school into account when considering your grades and have good access schemes, so I'd just choose whichever you prefer based on course and location. If you can think of something useful you'd like to do in a gap year and you really want to give Oxbridge a shot, go for it! PM me if you want any more advice.
Lucyj
I would be applying for geography,for GCSE got an A*(99% ) and for AS got an A ( including an A in every module if they look at modules?) and hopefully an A at A2.
I don’t mind public school students its just things people have been telling me have really put me off such as the ‘pitt club’ and a friend of mine who was at an open day at Cambridge said there were a lot of people there discussing the rivalries between their public schools, and he was just left there on his own.
) and for AS got an A ( including an A in every module if they look at modules?) and hopefully an A at A2. I don’t mind public school students its just things people have been telling me have really put me off such as the ‘pitt club’ and a friend of mine who was at an open day at Cambridge said there were a lot of people there discussing the rivalries between their public schools, and he was just left there on his own.
Well, your grades in the subject are obviously fine - as long as you're enthusiastic and read around it and so on, you stand every chance if you want to do it
As for Public school types, until this year when someone mentioned it on TSR, I wasn't even sure if the Pitt Club still existed. They're VERY select and keep themselves to themselves, which is probably a good thing. Might be more well known in the bigger colleges e.g. Trinity, but half my friends don't even know what the Pitt Club is. It's a shame your friend got that impression at open day - probably lots of people from these schools came all together, which is always good for boosting confidence and/or making you look like a nob. Most of the normal world really don't care - I have friends from Eton and friends from very normal average comprehensives. There's the odd bit of friendly banter, but nobody seriously judges anyone.
Lucyj: Your post is infuriatingly misguided. If you'd bothered to check the statistics, you'd have found out that Durham has more independent educated students than Oxford.
I don't understand it. You're clearly an intelligent person. Choosing uni is one of the most important decisions of your life. Couldn't you have spent five minutes on google checking the stories you've heard actually had some basis in fact before turning down the chance to go one of the world's best universities????
I'd like to make clear I'm not angry at you, just incredibly frustrated. Oxford wants people like you. It spends millions of pounds trying to encourage them to apply. People like me volunteer hundreds of hours to encourage people like you to apply here. Yet you don't, based on a myth, a fallacy, a lie (created by tabloids who just live scandal stories about elitism)! It's so so so frustrating.
I don't understand it. You're clearly an intelligent person. Choosing uni is one of the most important decisions of your life. Couldn't you have spent five minutes on google checking the stories you've heard actually had some basis in fact before turning down the chance to go one of the world's best universities????
I'd like to make clear I'm not angry at you, just incredibly frustrated. Oxford wants people like you. It spends millions of pounds trying to encourage them to apply. People like me volunteer hundreds of hours to encourage people like you to apply here. Yet you don't, based on a myth, a fallacy, a lie (created by tabloids who just live scandal stories about elitism)! It's so so so frustrating.
Isaiah Berlin
Lucyj: Your post is infuriatingly misguided. If you'd bothered to check the statistics, you'd have found out that Durham has more independent educated students than Oxford.
I don't understand it. You're clearly an intelligent person. Choosing uni is one of the most important decisions of your life. Couldn't you have spent five minutes on google checking the stories you've heard actually had some basis in fact before turning down the chance to go one of the world's best universities????
I'd like to make clear I'm not angry at you, just incredibly frustrated. Oxford wants people like you. It spends millions of pounds trying to encourage them to apply. People like me volunteer hundreds of hours to encourage people like you to apply here. Yet you don't, based on a myth, a fallacy, a lie (created by tabloids who just live scandal stories about elitism)! It's so so so frustrating.
I don't understand it. You're clearly an intelligent person. Choosing uni is one of the most important decisions of your life. Couldn't you have spent five minutes on google checking the stories you've heard actually had some basis in fact before turning down the chance to go one of the world's best universities????
I'd like to make clear I'm not angry at you, just incredibly frustrated. Oxford wants people like you. It spends millions of pounds trying to encourage them to apply. People like me volunteer hundreds of hours to encourage people like you to apply here. Yet you don't, based on a myth, a fallacy, a lie (created by tabloids who just live scandal stories about elitism)! It's so so so frustrating.
I understand that widening access has become a goal for Oxbridge recently but I am afraid the stereotypes and myths still prevail, especially when you have had these confirmed by everybody around you.
I didn’t have a clue about higher education until about December last year. I knew nothing about the application process and didn’t have clue about how different universities were ranked. I did research application statistics and according to the 2006 Guardian University Guide Durham had 67% state sector intake and Oxford and Cambridge 55%.
I have looked into the issue in the last few months, unfortunately too late for this year. I now know about these access schemes for example at Oxford getting hep with your PS and mock interviews etc. But to be honest when it was UCAS application time I felt stupid applying to any top universities such as Durham/Bristol etc and had not even considered applying to Oxbridge. There were also logistical problems with applying to Oxbridge firstly as my tutor had immense problems doing peoples personal statements as he was terribly unorganised and also I would have been required to show an essay at interview but didn’t have one as in year 12 in geography we were never set one!
Widening access has been a goal for Oxford for at least twenty years, if not longer. The myths are just that, and everybody around you probably knows fairly little about Oxbridge, and has no right to deny you any opportunity based on hearsay.
Durham does have a higher state intake (Oxford has fewer state and fewer independent educated students, becuase it also has a lot of international students which count as neither). But, frankly, it's ridiculous to ignore all the opportunities Oxford has to offer (and they are amazing) just because out of every 10 people you meet, one less will have gone to a similar school to yours. Does it really matter? Do you really thing you won't be able to get along with privately educated people, or foreigners? People's background just doesn't matter that much, it melts away almost immediately once you get here.
It's a shame you felt stupid applying for good universitis - you have the grades, you had a shot just like everyone else. It's a shame to hear you had logistical problems - but I promise you had you rung Oxford in advance they'd've tried to help.
Again, I'm not having a go at you personally. I'm not suggesting you should drop Durham, it's an excellent university and I hope you'll be very happy there. I'm just desperate to explain that not applying to Oxford out of ignorance is just madness, it has so much to offer - and it wants more intelligent people like you in particular to experience that.
Durham does have a higher state intake (Oxford has fewer state and fewer independent educated students, becuase it also has a lot of international students which count as neither). But, frankly, it's ridiculous to ignore all the opportunities Oxford has to offer (and they are amazing) just because out of every 10 people you meet, one less will have gone to a similar school to yours. Does it really matter? Do you really thing you won't be able to get along with privately educated people, or foreigners? People's background just doesn't matter that much, it melts away almost immediately once you get here.
It's a shame you felt stupid applying for good universitis - you have the grades, you had a shot just like everyone else. It's a shame to hear you had logistical problems - but I promise you had you rung Oxford in advance they'd've tried to help.
Again, I'm not having a go at you personally. I'm not suggesting you should drop Durham, it's an excellent university and I hope you'll be very happy there. I'm just desperate to explain that not applying to Oxford out of ignorance is just madness, it has so much to offer - and it wants more intelligent people like you in particular to experience that.
A lot of people like me with the potential, did not apply to Oxbridge due to lack of confidence, so therefore not simply out of ignorance. Many people from my school and similar ones have significantly lower levels of confidence in their own abilities and in many cases lower aspirations and this coupled with the elitist myths put many people of applying.
I should add that I personally get along well with the majority of public school students and do not view people in terms of their education. But when you have been told by people from one of the top independent schools that you only got your place at Bristol because you’re from a state school with no family history of university, and that affirmative action deprived many of their friends places at good universities its enough to twist your perceptions on things.
I should add that I personally get along well with the majority of public school students and do not view people in terms of their education. But when you have been told by people from one of the top independent schools that you only got your place at Bristol because you’re from a state school with no family history of university, and that affirmative action deprived many of their friends places at good universities its enough to twist your perceptions on things.
Lucyj
A lot of people like me with the potential, did not apply to Oxbridge due to lack of confidence, so therefore not simply out of ignorance. Many people from my school and similar ones have significantly lower levels of confidence in their own abilities and in many cases lower aspirations and this coupled with the elitist myths put many people of applying.
Well, I'd say that lack of confidence is borne out of ignorance. Like you say, you have the potential, yet didn't think you were good enough. Had you been fully aware of the fact that the majority of Oxford students do come from the same type of school as you and do very well, just as well as public school students, and that your school will form almost no barrier to your getting in, you would have been more confident!
But when you have been told by people from one of the top independent schools that you only got your place at Bristol because you’re from a state school with no family history of university, and that affirmative action deprived many of their friends places at good universities its enough to twist your perceptions on things.
There are nasty people everywhere. Other people, however, do deserve some sympathy - people who've worked very hard, paid a lot of money for education and then been rejected in favour of people with worse grades are likely to take that badly, and perhaps explain it in somewhat unkind terms.
Lucyj
Basically I was wondering if either of the universities would make allowances for my GCSE’s
Basically I was wondering if either of the universities would make allowances for my GCSE’s
Not that it would matter much given your results are excellent, but Oxbridge both have access to the average GCSE results of the school where you went, so they would be able to see how well you have done relative to how well other people at your school typically do. I would imagine that would make you look extremely impressive.
Also I agree with Isaiah completely, it is a real shame that people told you such ********s about Oxbridge, and that you ran into a jealous pr*** at Bristol. The percentage of state school pupils who get in almost exactly matches the percentage who apply. If you want a shot at the top, though, it's not too late. I'd imagine a geographer could have a lot of amazing things in mind for a gap year!
Isaiah Berlin
Well, I'd say that lack of confidence is borne out of ignorance. Like you say, you have the potential, yet didn't think you were good enough. Had you been fully aware of the fact that the majority of Oxford students do come from the same type of school as you and do very well, just as well as public school students, and that your school will form almost no barrier to your getting in, you would have been more confident!
This is endemic in the state school system - it is just a completely different level of expectation put on universities, whereas at my school the vast majority apply to Oxbridge. Out of interest Isaiah what sort of things can/do you do to try and change that? I think it is a tragedy when people don't realise their potential.
Well for a start, you could shoot Gordon Brown and the rest of the Labour Party class warrior brigade who trash outstanding British educational establishments to get votes before sending their kids to private tutors, top grammar schools and American Ivy League universities, all the while undermining the prospects of the very people they're supposedly fighting for. While you're at it, burn down the offices of all tabloid newspapers, who take joy in making Oxbridge students out as a bunch of scandal ridden toffs. For example, May Day stories never mention the people jumping off the bridge aren't Oxford students - last year it was 33/34 non-Oxford, this year not a single one was from Oxford.
Once we've done that, well...
Information is the key. Spread out as much information, in as many media as possible. We provide detail stuff online, we print prospectuses, we run open days, we invite people over for conferences, we send people thousands of pages of literature free, we pay for people's room and board in Oxford, there are even Summer Schools which will pay for you to experience studying in Oxford. Oxford has made the change - the only problem is letting the world know about it.
Everyone cane make a difference. If you're from an under-representated background and come here, why not tell your local newspaper? Dispell the myth - it'll make such a difference! Even if you don't, go back to your school and talk to U6th students, offer to help with applications, give advice, give them assurance. It's the sort of grass roots, trustworthy information which will cause the real change in perceptions.
Once we've done that, well...
Information is the key. Spread out as much information, in as many media as possible. We provide detail stuff online, we print prospectuses, we run open days, we invite people over for conferences, we send people thousands of pages of literature free, we pay for people's room and board in Oxford, there are even Summer Schools which will pay for you to experience studying in Oxford. Oxford has made the change - the only problem is letting the world know about it.
Everyone cane make a difference. If you're from an under-representated background and come here, why not tell your local newspaper? Dispell the myth - it'll make such a difference! Even if you don't, go back to your school and talk to U6th students, offer to help with applications, give advice, give them assurance. It's the sort of grass roots, trustworthy information which will cause the real change in perceptions.
kizer
I'd imagine a geographer could have a lot of amazing things in mind for a gap year!
Well I have already planned a gap year teaching in Ghana so I suppose if my A level results are high enough they I can always apply next year, its just a case of judging if the benefits of the small possibility of gaining a place at Oxbridge outweigh the risk of gambling my current university offers.
Isaiah I take your point that lack of confidence in applying to Oxbridge can be and I guess are the main outcome of lack of information and the ignorance borne out of that. But its roots also lie in the education system. Pupils in most state schools receive less resources, attention and individual encouragement. The result of this often being, the talents and potential of many bright students not being recognised and hence they lack confidence in their own academic ability so are less likely to apply to top universities.
I agree that the way forward is information to let people know that they can go to Oxbridge. I am sure that if someone had come to my school and dispelled the myths and demystified the application process it would have made a lot of difference to me and people in a similar situation at my school.
Isaiah Berlin
Well for a start, you could shoot Gordon Brown and the rest of the Labour Party class warrior brigade who trash outstanding British educational establishments to get votes before sending their kids to private tutors, top grammar schools and American Ivy League universities, all the while undermining the prospects of the very people they're supposedly fighting for. While you're at it, burn down the offices of all tabloid newspapers, who take joy in making Oxbridge students out as a bunch of scandal ridden toffs. For example, May Day stories never mention the people jumping off the bridge aren't Oxford students - last year it was 33/34 non-Oxford, this year not a single one was from Oxford.
Do you read the tabloids or is this hearsay?
Lucyj
Isaiah I take your point that lack of confidence in applying to Oxbridge can be and I guess are the main outcome of lack of information and the ignorance borne out of that. But its roots also lie in the education system. Pupils in most state schools receive less resources, attention and individual encouragement. The result of this often being, the talents and potential of many bright students not being recognised and hence they lack confidence in their own academic ability so are less likely to apply to top universities.
Isaiah I take your point that lack of confidence in applying to Oxbridge can be and I guess are the main outcome of lack of information and the ignorance borne out of that. But its roots also lie in the education system. Pupils in most state schools receive less resources, attention and individual encouragement. The result of this often being, the talents and potential of many bright students not being recognised and hence they lack confidence in their own academic ability so are less likely to apply to top universities.
Yes, that's a very important point actually. It's a particularly serious one because there's nothing Oxford can do about it.
Do you read the tabloids or is this hearsay?
Our common room gets the Sun, Daily Mail, News of the World and the Mirror. They're very, very well read. I know people who are so intellectual they're incapable of talking about anything else but they still read them - even if you think what they write is nonesense, it's still interesting to read as exercises in manipulating the public and playing up to people's fears and anxieties.
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