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    Why is it, do you think, that no one has ever been able to verify a miracle? As much as the world would love to see; why is it that the people who claim they have witnessed them are stricken impotent when asked for proof?
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    (Original post by kjdemaria)
    Why is it, do you think, that no one has ever been able to verify a miracle? As much as the world would love to see; why is it that the people who claim they have witnessed them are stricken impotent when asked for proof?
    Miracles are a nice literary artistic invention and nothing more. People often laugh at the myths of the Ancient Greeks and dismiss them as nonsense despite replacing them with equally ludicrous alternatives. Zeus castrated his father - clearly that didn't happen, and how is a bearded man creating wine out of water any different? They are just fanciful chimeras.
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    (Original post by kjdemaria)
    Why is it, do you think, that no one has ever been able to verify a miracle? As much as the world would love to see; why is it that the people who claim they have witnessed them are stricken impotent when asked for proof?
    Because we simply cannot verify them. There are numerous events in history that we cannot verify, and must rely on written accounts and hearsay.

    Certain events we can gain a rough corroboration through archaeological evidence, which when compared to a written account can lead to them both backing each other up. But that only really works for very large events which leave a trace (like battles, disasters, cities).

    With other things like people and conversations, we can never tell whether they ever really happened as described. With many events we take them at face value, arguing that many have no real baring on history and are more anecdotes. Others remain as possibilities, which have a significant effect on history, but with no way of knowing whether they happened or not, we are left guessing. Then, there are certain events which defy evidence we already have, in which case we disregard them as nonsense.

    So essentially, miracles may be verifiable, but are unlikely to be so. The only evidence we have of them taking place are accounts by questionable sources, and as they defy current knowledge, we assume them to be incorrect.
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    depends on what you think miracles are and what the word is describing.

    miracles have happened for some time, and continue to do so. not everyone reports them because the impact is so personal.I mean, sure...those of whom a person may know could be told, but over all it is not an invite to the whole world into their lives. so basically I'm referring to pregnancies, a good conversation, the little stuff.

    otherwise, if you regard towards huge (I can't believe Lazarus is walking around - wasn't he dead?) miracles that seem difficult to explain, then I have not heard of anything recent. please do note, that was an extreme version of miracles in parenthesis. there are means to study a "miracle" and the only people I know of that study (or try to study) all reports is the Catholic Church. others might, but they would be grouped individuals that do other things as well, as in other studies. the C.C. is the only people I know that have dedicated experts/scientists study to see if there were any anomalies or natural explanations. "dedicated" I mean like, teams of people that have history working together on similar subjects. Others might, but I am unaware as to who they would be (in terms of group name, etc.)


    this leads to a question:
    what do you mean by verify?
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    I've said this before... Miracles cannot be verified by definition. If they could, then they could be taken into account in people's predictions so it would be silly to call them miracles. It's not like an all-powerful God (or any god) would/should/had to do whatever we asked whenever we asked...
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    Whilst saying that 'it is a miracle that a universe exists' could be a step too far because all that has to mean is the sum of everything, even if there is nothing, I could say that it is a miracle that any particles exist within that universe, let alone that some of those are conscious things. There is no logical reason for there to be anything in the universe at all. This is all miraculous. But if there is a creator they were - and are - not necessarily hands on at all. But if there ISN'T a creator how did any stuff just happen to exist? Like something that didn't already exist imagined it into existence? Stuff doesn't just exist. Something happened.

    Basically, that there is anything in the universe is miraculous regardless of whether or not there is a God.
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    I'd quite be interested to know if there's anyone, on this forum, who believes that they have witnessed a miracle. Please do expand if you believe this applies to you.
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    (Original post by kjdemaria)
    I'd quite be interested to know if there's anyone, on this forum, who believes that they have witnessed a miracle. Please do expand if you believe this applies to you.
    Yesterday, I memorised an English Literature essay. Opened my exam paper and guess what? The exact same essay appeared!


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    It depends how you define "miracle" in the first place. I do think it is overused to the point that the word has lost some of its meaning. E.g. is someone survives cancer a family might call it a "miracle", but if many people are surviving a certain type of cancer due to better treatments, would it still be a "miracle". Perhaps there is no such thing as a miracle? Here is a useful definition of miracles in philosophical terms: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/miracles/

    I don't think miracle stories are verifiable because we can't prove that we even exist or that the world around us is real at all. You might claim that one person who sees a miracle might be questionable (e.g. mental state, drugs etc.) but what happens when multiple people witness the same miracle? Are all of their senses misleading them in the same way? Have they been brainwashed into deluding themselves that what they have seen is real? Have those people corroborated in their account for some sort of gain or other purpose?
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    That miracles are unverifiable is an analytically true proposition - it's true by virtue of the law of contradiction because miracles are unverifiable by definition.
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    There is not an agreed definition of 'miracle'. Though if the whole world were to witness a 'miracle' (taking it to mean a transgression of the laws of nature) would that make it verifiable? We could not voluntarily repeat it, but in that & for that moment could verify. Though of course some people would insist it could be otherwise explained and qualify it.

    Some people define miracle to be a change for the better in a person. If this is the case it would seem verification is easier to achieve. I think I'd disagree with that though since how can you verify an internal change in character directly?

    Some people believe in a kind of basic statement where you can verify something if you experience it. But only in the sense that it's true for you. You couldn't verify for everyone.

    This is helping me revise ))
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    Because miracles are usually attributed to people of an extremely elevates state of consciousness and understanding. As most of those people apparently lived in the past, it's a bit hard to verify.
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    All I know is that god seams to be doing less and less of the good miracles these days. At one point he/she supposedly flooded the earth. All he/she manages to do nowadays is appear on toast and buts.Name:  CanYouSeeJesus.jpg
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