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    Take a man who goes to university and gets a degree. He then struggles to enter the job market and early on fails to earn more than people who dropped out of school at 16. Many people agree that this is unfair, as the graduate's hard work is not rewarded.

    In a similar situation, a man goes off to study politics or economics. After studying, he finds that despite his hard work he has no more say than anyone else about how to run things, and thus he is unrewarded for his hard work.

    In the case of the EU referendum, people want democracy in which the uneducated have as much say as the educated (both for and against the eu, not saying that all against the eu are uneducated), but by the capitalist logic that hard work should be rewarded, this is a bad thing? Any counterarguments?
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    So hang on... someone who has got themselves a politics degree is more entitled to have a say about how things are run than someone who doesn't and just goes out and gets a job and lives in "the real world"?

    Is this not how it works already with politicians?

    To try and say that someone with a degree is more entitled to a vote than someone who doesn't is bordering on fascist. Educating people so they can make a more informed decision is fantastic, but going the other way and saying that someone without this particular education in this particular subject at this particular level should not have a say in how their country is run...

    Besides, I know a lot of people who have gone through university and still have ridiculous ideas. Or at least ideas that I don't agree with. But that is kind of what a democracy is: people with differing opinions allowed to voice their differing opinions!

    This is all subjective and absurd.

    It is also absurd to suggest that the person who dropped out of school at sixteen worked any less hard than the person who went to university.
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    Studying is no more "hard work" than doing a job. Jobs don't allow you to drink yourself into oblivion 4 times a week and still get rewarded for it.
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    I wish there were a better system than democracy, but there isn't, and universal suffrage is now considered as vital for the democratic process. Whether we agree with it or not.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I wish there were a better system than democracy, but there isn't, and universal suffrage is now considered as vital for the democratic process. Whether we agree with it or not.
    I'd echo this. Paraphrasing Churchill, we don't need to pretend that democracy is perfect. There are flaws, and not necessarily just whether the vote of a politics professor should be weighted more than that of an 18-yo layabout.

    It's just that the more obvious flaws (disenfranchisement of a lifelong Tory in a sold Labour ward?) are sufficiently minor when compared to the alternatives.
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    Incidentally, one of the ways of smoothing out the flaws with democracy is by having representative (rather than direct) democracy. For a decision to be truly 'democratic', its not enough to simply vote on it - that vote has to be informed by the full array of facts, options, and consequences.

    We therefore elect an individual who we feel has the necessary intellect to weigh up all the options rationally, make decisions for us, and represent our viewpoint in extremely complex issues. This allows other normal working people to get on with their lives and not have to learn every detail or consequence of a legislative agenda.

    That's why this constant call of referenda is a bit absurd. Few people with busy lives and jobs have the time to get to grips with the minutiae of the economic consequences of leaving or staying in the EU, the justiciable impacts of capital punishment, the social impacts of gay marriage. Democracy is about making informed decisions for the good of the country, it's not just about choosing what you feel like on the day.

    People calling for a referendum every five minutes aren't democrats - they're demagogues.
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    How is university 'the real world' and how do university students work harder than people in work who work long hours, have a boss who treats you like **** and working with the general public who treat you like ****?

    Sure I bet the majority of students care about their degree, that their course may be difficult and that they put a lot of time and effort into it, but at the end of the day you are surronded by friendly people, friendly professors, doing a course you picked, improving your education and doing what you want to be doing, compared to most things I hardly call it hard work.

    In society what is meant by 'hard work' basically comes down to how much you earn. A person in a cushy job earning a fair wage is seen as more hardworking than someone in a tough low paid job, and those with better jobs may be better educated, more able, from a wealthier background etc than those in lower paid jobs, but it does not mean that they are more 'hardworking'.
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    (Original post by playingcards)
    Incidentally, one of the ways of smoothing out the flaws with democracy is by having representative (rather than direct) democracy. For a decision to be truly 'democratic', its not enough to simply vote on it - that vote has to be informed by the full array of facts, options, and consequences.

    We therefore elect an individual who we feel has the necessary intellect to weigh up all the options rationally, make decisions for us, and represent our viewpoint in extremely complex issues. This allows other normal working people to get on with their lives and not have to learn every detail or consequence of a legislative agenda.

    That's why this constant call of referenda is a bit absurd. Few people with busy lives and jobs have the time to get to grips with the minutiae of the economic consequences of leaving or staying in the EU, the justiciable impacts of capital punishment, the social impacts of gay marriage. Democracy is about making informed decisions for the good of the country, it's not just about choosing what you feel like on the day.

    People calling for a referendum every five minutes aren't democrats - they're demagogues.
    Completely agree, but I do think that we should expect a higher degree of education from our ministers. I don't like it that we have chancellors of the exchequer without doctorates in economics.
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    (Original post by The_Duck)
    Completely agree, but I do think that we should expect a higher degree of education from our ministers. I don't like it that we have chancellors of the exchequer without doctorates in economics.
    How about a Shadow Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition who have both lectured in economics at Harvard?
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    (Original post by playingcards)
    How about a Shadow Chancellor and Leader of the Opposition who have both lectured in economics at Harvard?
    Another reason to vote Labour
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    (Original post by The_Duck)
    Take a man who goes to university and gets a degree. He then struggles to enter the job market and early on fails to earn more than people who dropped out of school at 16. Many people agree that this is unfair, as the graduate's hard work is not rewarded.

    In a similar situation, a man goes off to study politics or economics. After studying, he finds that despite his hard work he has no more say than anyone else about how to run things, and thus he is unrewarded for his hard work.

    In the case of the EU referendum, people want democracy in which the uneducated have as much say as the educated (both for and against the eu, not saying that all against the eu are uneducated), but by the capitalist logic that hard work should be rewarded, this is a bad thing? Any counterarguments?
    Capitalist logic would suggest he who wins, wins.

    You're logic is all over the place.
 
 
 
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