Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Leaving EU anything more than making a point of being British? Watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    I haven't heard a single argument that seems to be a viable reason to leave the EU. So it has got me wondering, is the sole reason simply that certain people want to be distinctly British? Despite being on the Eurasian plate, it seems a lot of British people don't like being called European. The EU seems to highlight that indeed they are European and it would seem this causes an upset among some British people, so much that they are willing to hurt their economy in order to prove this non-European principle.

    What other proper reasons are there? All the economic ones (which is what the EU is about) are all a load of rubbish.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bestofyou)
    I haven't heard a single argument that seems to be a viable reason to leave the EU. So it has got me wondering, is the sole reason simply that certain people want to be distinctly British? Despite being on the Eurasian plate, it seems a lot of British people don't like being called European. The EU seems to highlight that indeed they are European and it would seem this causes an upset among some British people, so much that they are willing to hurt their economy in order to prove this non-European principle.

    What other proper reasons are there? All the economic ones (which is what the EU is about) are all a load of rubbish.
    What a smug attitude. Some people like democracy. Clearly, some don't.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bestofyou)
    I haven't heard a single argument that seems to be a viable reason to leave the EU. So it has got me wondering, is the sole reason simply that certain people want to be distinctly British? Despite being on the Eurasian plate, it seems a lot of British people don't like being called European. The EU seems to highlight that indeed they are European and it would seem this causes an upset among some British people, so much that they are willing to hurt their economy in order to prove this non-European principle.

    What other proper reasons are there? All the economic ones (which is what the EU is about) are all a load of rubbish.
    You obviously haven't been looking hard......or even looking then.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You obviously haven't been looking hard......or even looking then.
    over 50% of the UK's trade is with the EU. Until that lowers no such talk should even be on the table.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bestofyou)
    over 50% of the UK's trade is with the EU. Until that lowers no such talk should even be on the table.
    I'm sorry. But do you realise that leaving the EU doesn't actually mean we can't/won't trade with the EU.

    Norway isn't a member of the EU and seems to have no intention of joining it. Incidentally, over half of their trade is with the EU.

    The UK population were asked about joining a trading block (In times of high international trade tarifffs, which the WTO has brought down globally now) Not a federal European Superstate.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bestofyou)
    I haven't heard a single argument that seems to be a viable reason to leave the EU. So it has got me wondering, is the sole reason simply that certain people want to be distinctly British? Despite being on the Eurasian plate, it seems a lot of British people don't like being called European. The EU seems to highlight that indeed they are European and it would seem this causes an upset among some British people, so much that they are willing to hurt their economy in order to prove this non-European principle.

    What other proper reasons are there? All the economic ones (which is what the EU is about) are all a load of rubbish.
    I rate this troll 7/10.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    You obviously know nothing about the EU if you're in favour of it.
    That's over 50% of import trade, do you really think if we leave the EU France will stop exporting wine to us, Germany will stop exporting Volkswagens? The EU has made us dissolve trade agreements with other countries in return for our membership, international trade will be improved by leaving the EU. As for our exports around 40% is to the EU, compare that with China which exports around 60% of it's exports to the EU it's easy to see that EU membership doesn't count for much when it comes to exports. There are several other benefits to leaving the EU, but I cba to list them all. Look on the UKIP and Burges group websites for more info.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Kezgold)
    You obviously know nothing about the EU if you're in favour of it.
    That's over 50% of import trade, do you really think if we leave the EU France will stop exporting wine to us, Germany will stop exporting Volkswagens? The EU has made us dissolve trade agreements with other countries in return for our membership, international trade will be improved by leaving the EU. As for our exports around 40% is to the EU, compare that with China which exports around 60% of it's exports to the EU it's easy to see that EU membership doesn't count for much when it comes to exports. There are several other benefits to leaving the EU, but I cba to list them all. Look on the UKIP and Burges group websites for more info.
    Several benefits? Fine, name 1 or 2 brief benefits.

    Germany, a much great economic power seems to have less issues with the EU 'restrictions' on trade compared to the UK who has a much weaker economy.

    What I said in my post + a belief there are so many unemployed due to eastern europeans = UKIP sympathiser.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    I believe in democracy, being able to leave the ECHR, not spending 52 million pounds a day to an organisation that has never had its books signed off, controlling our own fishing waters, not having to meet mad green targets. and controlling our own borders
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    ....
    Restore Self Government & Democracy

    Spoiler:
    Show
    • Commissioners in Brussels dictate 75% of our laws. None can be repealed by Parliament. We cannot vote for those who make these laws – we cannot remove them.
    • EU controls Immigration, Business and Employment, Financial Services, Fishing, Farming, Law and Order, Energy and Trade. It seeks now to control Foreign Affairs and Tax.
    Joining the EU saw the UK depart with some laws that were inhumane. I think it is rather dangerous to give any government full control over it laws. For example mass discrimination took place in the UK against Catholics prior to the 1970s.

    2 Rebuild Prosperity

    • By leaving the EU we save over £45m a day plus £60bn a year due to EU trade barriers, business regulation, waste, fraud,
    administration costs and the destruction of our fishing industry.
    Do people not consider these barriers are therefore a reason? Destruction of the fishing industry? If it wasn't for these barrier there won't be a fishing industry at all eventually.

    • EU ‘renewable’ energy rules will double electricity bills by 2020. Global warming is not proven - wind power is futile. Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas.
    Oh dear...

    Another reason why we should remain in the EU. Nuclear power has some serious drawbacks and without the EU and its energy rules the UK will do even less than it is already doing in terms of green energy.


    3 Protect Our Borders & Defend Our Country

    • The tide of mass EU immigration has pushed down wages and restricted job opportunities. Only by leaving the EU can we regain control of our borders.
    • Freeze permanent immigration for 5 years. Immigrants must be fluent in English, have minimum education levels and show they can financially support themselves.
    • Bring in a points based visa system and time limited work permits.
    Other than the points system which I find is a good idea, the only other response I can think of here is, again, Oh dear...

    Immigration is the worst argument I've come across when it comes to the EU. Most of these immigrants are doing jobs that no one else will want. The ones that do want them are young students on a temporary basis who will either leave in a few weeks/months as the jobs is 'below them' or it is horrible work, meaning that more time and money is spent of training a new person. In most cases at least.

    [qupte]4 Safeguards Against Crime

    • Scrap the European Arrest Warrant.
    • Repeal the Human Rights Act to end abuses by convicted criminals and illegal immigrants.
    • Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’.[/quote]

    I honestly cannot believe this is on the UKIP website, repeal the Human Rights act?

    What is so bad about the arrest warrant? Is it ok for people like Andrew Moran to live it up in Spain?


    6 Our Way Of Life

    • Our traditional values have been undermined. Children are taught to be ashamed of our past. Multiculturalism has split our society. Political correctness is stifling free speech.
    Should we teach them to be proud of the slave trade? That it is ok to shoot down unarmed protesters? etc etc




    In the spoiler are some of the reasons for leaving the EU taken from the UKIP site.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    Those that oppose and want us out completely are stuck in the past where Britain could go back to what is was, the world has moved on since the 1950s.

    We have to remain and start working with other countries on reform
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    Leaving the EU is a strictly ideological desire, hence there are very few logical arguments for it.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bestofyou)
    Restore Self Government & Democracy

    Spoiler:
    Show


    Joining the EU saw the UK depart with some laws that were inhumane. I think it is rather dangerous to give any government full control over it laws. For example mass discrimination took place in the UK against Catholics prior to the 1970s.

    I'm assuming that you're talking about Northern Ireland there. A Northern Ireland that British troops were sent into to protect the catholic community. There was discrimination in the 70s againsta whole host of other people. It wasn't the EU that changed that, society did.



    Do people not consider these barriers are therefore a reason? Destruction of the fishing industry? If it wasn't for these barrier there won't be a fishing industry at all eventually.



    Oh dear...

    Another reason why we should remain in the EU. Nuclear power has some serious drawbacks and without the EU and its energy rules the UK will do even less than it is already doing in terms of green energy.




    Other than the points system which I find is a good idea, the only other response I can think of here is, again, Oh dear...

    Immigration is the worst argument I've come across when it comes to the EU. Most of these immigrants are doing jobs that no one else will want. The ones that do want them are young students on a temporary basis who will either leave in a few weeks/months as the jobs is 'below them' or it is horrible work, meaning that more time and money is spent of training a new person. In most cases at least.

    [qupte]4 Safeguards Against Crime

    • Scrap the European Arrest Warrant.
    • Repeal the Human Rights Act to end abuses by convicted criminals and illegal immigrants.
    • Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’.
    Spoiler:
    Show


    I honestly cannot believe this is on the UKIP website, repeal the Human Rights act?

    What is so bad about the arrest warrant? Is it ok for people like Andrew Moran to live it up in Spain?




    Should we teach them to be proud of the slave trade? That it is ok to shoot down unarmed protesters? etc etc




    In the spoiler are some of the reasons for leaving the EU taken from the UKIP site.[/QUOTE]
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    What about the fact that it helps us, as a country, regain control? At the moment, we're at total liberty to the EU.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    We managed fine before the human rights act, it offers too much protection to criminals.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bestofyou)
    Restore Self Government & Democracy

    Spoiler:
    Show


    Joining the EU saw the UK depart with some laws that were inhumane. I think it is rather dangerous to give any government full control over it laws. For example mass discrimination took place in the UK against Catholics prior to the 1970s.

    Which laws were inhumane? Lets remember that the UK appears to be only a handful of European states that hasn't embraced Communism/Fascism/Military Dictatorships or Quisling, Vichy style governments. Infact, the UK has been a bastion of freedo and democracy through it's history compared to many of our European neighbours. Yes Discrimination took place in teh 70's, but it wasn't just against Catholics. (Remember troops were sent into Ulster in 69 to protect the Catholic minority.) The EU has had little to do with any of that legislation. That came around with changes in social attitiudes, much like that laws created in the UK that outlawed slavery.

    Do people not consider these barriers are therefore a reason? Destruction of the fishing industry? If it wasn't for these barrier there won't be a fishing industry at all eventually.

    Are you implying that the UK government is incapable of looking after it's own fish stocks? The concernes about the fishing industry are related to the fact that Spanish Fisherman have been given the right to fish in UK terratorial waters by the EU, with Quotas involved.


    Oh dear...

    Another reason why we should remain in the EU. Nuclear power has some serious drawbacks and without the EU and its energy rules the UK will do even less than it is already doing in terms of green energy.

    France appears to be doing exceptiopnally well with Nuclear Power. Infact the only ones pushing for a switch from Nuclear to renewables tend to be German based renewable firms. Have you seen the news about the trade war with China that's looming because the German Solar Panel Manufacturers are annoyed that the Chinese are undercutting them? Incidentally, Non EU nations seem to be capable of coming up with their own renewabls programmes. After all it's teh UN IPCC that kicked all of this off. Shall we demand that all othere non EU nations join the EU?



    Other than the points system which I find is a good idea, the only other response I can think of here is, again, Oh dear...

    Immigration is the worst argument I've come across when it comes to the EU. Most of these immigrants are doing jobs that no one else will want.

    Agreed. We're generating a feckless society who see it as an option to work and stay on benefits rather than do jobs that are available. Cut the benefits safety et and people will do those jobs.

    The ones that do want them are young students on a temporary basis who will either leave in a few weeks/months as the jobs is 'below them' or it is horrible work, meaning that more time and money is spent of training a new person. In most cases at least.

    Most of these jobs are pretty much unskilled. It doesn'ttake too much to train somebody to mop a floor. But hey ho, we'll allow unfettered immigration to lower wage prices and create a Roman Empire Style underclass to service are needs.

    [qupte]4 Safeguards Against Crime

    • Scrap the European Arrest Warrant. We've managed before.
    • Repeal the Human Rights Act to end abuses by convicted criminals and illegal immigrants. Sadly theHuman rights act gets abused. UKIP aren't promoting torture/Execution/Blackmail. They're trying to cut down on a prisoner claiming his human rights are being attacked because he has to eat brown bread rather than white bread or some other useless reason why it gets to court where the only lawyer is the winner due to their fees being paid for by the state.
    • Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’ Try having a chat to a policeman. You'll find that they'd agree. And when you talk about Political correctness, I think you mean red tape. Incidentally, see how some of our European cousins police forces work. You'll be glad of teh boys in blue. The German Police are particularly vicious and the Italians will just rob you.


    .
    Spoiler:
    Show


    I honestly cannot believe this is on the UKIP website, repeal the Human Rights act?

    What is so bad about the arrest warrant? Is it ok for people like Andrew Moran to live it up in Spain?




    Should we teach them to be proud of the slave trade? That it is ok to shoot down unarmed protesters? etc etc




    In the spoiler are some of the reasons for leaving the EU taken from the UKIP site.[/QUOTE]

    So basically, you're argument consists of. 'The UK, which is one of a handful of European nations that hasn't embraced Totalitarian states where democracy is a dirty word, can't be trusted to look after itself so we'll surrender sovereignParliament to an unelected (Totalitarian) organisation. Great one. It's almost like you can't think for yourself.
    • Community Assistant
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    It's less about the policy differences or even cost but more about the fact Ukip believes in national sovereignty above all else.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MatureStudent36)

    So basically, you're argument consists of. 'The UK, which is one of a handful of European nations that hasn't embraced Totalitarian states where democracy is a dirty word, can't be trusted to look after itself so we'll surrender sovereignParliament to an unelected (Totalitarian) organisation. Great one. It's almost like you can't think for yourself.
    No, that is not what it 'basically consists of'. I merely highlighted a few examples in the past were the EU laws have helped the people in the UK. As one of those people I will never back down on the fact that the UK not having 100% control over its laws is not a bad thing, I simply cannot trust it. What if some sort of extremist party was to come to power, we already have some quasi-fascist MPs at the minute, there is nothing to guarantee that things will not always be fine and dandy moderate politics.

    However there were several other points raised, it wasn't all about making laws. If it was, then a desire to leave the EU wouldn't be on the table, a simple reform is all that would be needed.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    Trade between countries and nations is just the facilitating mechanism to bring about world government - the reason for all those treaties which were carefully worded and contained the blueprint for world government in progressive stages.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by bestofyou)
    No, that is not what it 'basically consists of'. I merely highlighted a few examples in the past were the EU laws have helped the people in the UK. As one of those people I will never back down on the fact that the UK not having 100% control over its laws is not a bad thing, I simply cannot trust it. What if some sort of extremist party was to come to power, we already have some quasi-fascist MPs at the minute, there is nothing to guarantee that things will not always be fine and dandy moderate politics.

    However there were several other points raised, it wasn't all about making laws. If it was, then a desire to leave the EU wouldn't be on the table, a simple reform is all that would be needed.

    This country has always stopped extremism becoming mainstream. Most other European nations haven't. Infact the majority have, so by supporting the EU we have a greater risk of having laws foisted on us by these people.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Brussels sprouts
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.