Hi guys. I am extremely worried about this upcoming exam on Friday. I was wondering if you guys could give me some help with useful examples and quotes from Herodotus and Thucydides.
i hope you can help me because there are like no revision tools for this topic online
Thanks in advance
OCR Classical Civilisation 17th May Greek Historians Watch
- Thread Starter
- 14-05-2013 15:46
- 15-05-2013 18:29
I'm re sitting this one I have some summaries for both of the historians that my teacher gave me last year, would that be helpful??
Posted from TSR Mobile
- 15-05-2013 18:41
How good at explaining? (causes, military, objectivity)
Compared to Herodotus
Thucydides gives his views on the war and introduces his writings. Though the introduction we see how he feels about archaeology, the Trojan war, the Athenians, Homer and the causes of the war.
Right from the introduction there is evidence that Thucydides is biased towards the Athenians which is bad for a historian as he doesn’t give a fair account of the events. He talks about how the Peloponnesian wars were more important than any other war, when he has no proof to back it up, he thinks that his war was the most important; he includes a little information about why he thinks the problems in Greece started as he introduces his writings.
Does he favour the Athenians? “The Athenians...way of living that was more relaxed and luxurious”. Does he trust Homer? “It is questionable whether we can have complete confidence in Homer’s figures”. What does he think of archaeology? “I think that generations would, as time passed, find it very difficult to believe that the place had really been as powerful as it was presented to be”. How important does he think the Trojan wars were? “That it was not so important as it was made out to be”. What does he think the problems in Greece start? “For a short time the war – allies need together, but it was not long before quarrels took place and Athens and Sparta, each with their own allies, were at war with each other”
Thucydides introduction is longer and more detailed than Herodotus’, Thucydides continually makes references to Herodotus and explains how the Peloponnesian wars were far more important than any other war, his writings seem to be influenced by making it better than Herodotus rather than the content itself. Thucydides gives his views on archaeology etc which Herodotus doesn’t do as he just explains why he is going to right. Herodotus’ introduction is more focused and to the point that Thucydides’.
The Athenians and Spartans have a 30 year truce together. Epidamnus tried to leave the Delian league and Corcyra helped them but the Corinthians opposed and a war started. The Corinthians lose the battle and go running to Sparta to ask for help. While the Corcyaeans go running back to Athens for help. The Corinthians say to Athens don’t get involved you will escalate the situation. The Athenians compromise and send 10 ships to oversee the battle encase Corcyra begin to lose they can step in and help. The Corcyraeans were split into three groups on the sea with 10 Athenian ships watching encase they were needed. The Corinthians ships were in a big group. When the fighting began Corcyra needed help so the 10 Athenian ships helped and 20 more were sent to help. The Spartans refused to help the Corinthians. The ships rammed each other and become so close the sea battle became a land battle on ships, the Corinthians retreated from the battle and both sides left believing they won.
He is good at explaining names of individuals such as the commanders, he includes numbers of ships, and hoplites the numbers seem more realistic than those of Herodotus. He includes timing to show what happens on each day so we have a better understanding of the battle, he includes a good amount of accurate information about the geography of the battle. He goes into details about the movements of the battle, such as the formations used, tactics and plans. He doesn’t appear to be biased in his explanation, he writes about the battle in chronological order so that it flows well and is easy to follow and includes information about the style of fighting on both sides. He gives a good amount of relevant examples for each area for a Historian.
Name of commanders “who had for subordinate commanders, was Xenoclides, the son of Euthycles”. Numbers “Ten of these come from Elis, twelve from Megara, ten from Leucas, twenty-seven from Ambracia, one from Anactorium and ninety from Corinth herself”. Timing “they took with them rations for three days”, “at dawn”. Geography “There is a harbour here, and above it, at some distance from the sea, is the city of Ephyre in the Elean district”. Movements “the Corcyaeans were making their attack from a direction where visibility was not so good”. Impartiality (unbiased) “so both sides claimed the victory”. Type of fighting “the fighting was of a somewhat old-fashioned kind, since they were still behind land in naval matters, both sides having numbers of hoplites aboard their ships, together with archers and javelin throws”.
Compares to Herodotus, Thucydides uses less speeches and says in the introduction that some of the speeches are partly made up, like Herodotus who claims the speeches are accurate. He doesn’t include any digression in his writing like Herodotus he stays on topic throughout the explanation, he doesn’t include Homeric style, his writing is less like a story teller, there is less suspense, exaggerated and epic etc. He writes in a chronological order, individual stories don’t change the structure like they do with Herodotus. He doesn’t include hubris to make his writings more entertaining, he includes less individuals than Herodotus and his writings as a whole aren’t guided by supernatural like they do in most of Herodotus’ writings about the Persian wars.
Dispute at Potidaea in 432BC, Potidaea rebelled against Athens and tried to leave the Delian league. Corinth the founding city of this colony sent volunteers to help. Seen as provocative by Athens, the Corinthians were looking for revenged after Corcyra, only the Spartans vote on whether to start war with Athens.
Thucydides account of the debate is good because he gives his own view point that is then backed up with evidence, he doesn’t include any digression or Homeric style. There is less speeches and individuals mentioned, it’s all in chronological order, he links to events like Corcyra to prove his point, he gives all 3 sides of the argument so that it’s balanced. The Spartans actions are explained why they did nothing to stop the Athenians growth; he also analyses the events himself and gives his own views. However, Thucydides is biased towards the Athenians, the speeches and debate is made up, dubious claims about the Spartans amount of fear since they have beaten them on land before. At this point Athens is not expanding they are not being aggressive, the Megara incident is left out to make Athens looks less aggressive, could this be because Thucydides is an Athenian? He shows Corinth to say bad things and the Spartans and good things about Athens and he is biased towards the Athenians as the Spartans are made to look like the bad guys with the problem.
Corinthians “ignorance which you show when dealing with foreign affairs”, “you can see yourselves how Athens has deprived some states of their freedom”, “once they realize that you do see what is happening and are still doing nothing to prevent it”, “you used to have the reputation of being safe and sure enough now one wonders whether this reputation is deserved”, “remained unprepared have been ruined by the confidence they placed in you”, “Athenian is always an innovator”, “we have just pointed to you, your whole way of life is out of date when compared with theirs”, “do not force the rest of us in despair to join a different alliance”. Athenians “we shall make no reply to the charges which these cities have made against us”, “we contributed to this result in three important ways; we produced the most of the ships, we produced the most intelligent of generals and we displayed the most unflinching courage”, “we did not gain this empire by force”, “you will have began the war, and we shall attempt to meet you in any and every field of action that you may choose”. Archidamnus “what I do suggest is that we should not take up arms at the present moment; instead we should send to them and put our grievances before them”. Stheneladidas “Therefore Spartans, cast your votes for the honour of Sparta and for war!” Vote “The great majority were of the opinion that the treaty had been broken”. Thucydides view “The Spartans voted that the treaty had been broken and that was should be declared not so much because they were influenced by the speeches of their allies as because they were afraid of the future growth of Athenian power”
Thucydides is biased towards Athens because he is Athenian, Herodotus is often biased towards other places, Thucydides wanted to be better than Herodotus but he is doing the same thing. He doesn’t include any digression like Herodotus often does, or Homeric style. Less individuals are mentioned whereas Herodotus includes individuals throughout all of his writings. Speeches are included in both but Thucydides says from the beginning that his are made up unlike Herodotus. All of the writing is in chronological order which Herodotus often doesn’t do because he includes digression. Both have their good and bad points of being a historian, Thucydides is biased and makes Spartans look bad which is effecting his writings about the Spartans and could be changing the truth which is a bad historian, towards the end Herodotus becomes less and less biased, both aren’t really good historians they both have their weak points.
This time is supposed to be a time of peace (the 30 year truce) it was more though a period of growing tensions as allies were forming and changing and small skirmishes began. The period in which Athens has been accused of aggressive empire building. Thucydides goes back in time to cover a period leading up the events at Corcyra and the Spartan debate which he has already covered this is breaking chronological order. He says how the Athenians return to Athens and build fortified walls around the city, the Spartans aren’t happy with this, they object but the negotiations are delayed so they are too late. Piraeus (harbour of Athens) is now protected this is the tool for empire building. The Athenians then become popular and Spartans unpopular as Pausanias the Spartan king become unpopular and people begin changing sides, the Athenians are popular for saving Greece against the Persians. Athens is now seen as the father figure of Greece, they then get harsh towards places that cannot afford tribute or ships. Athens then easily fights those who try to leave the league, Athens still grow in power. The alliance is then broken and the first battle between Sparta and Athens begins.
Thucydides gives a good account of the causes of the battle and what happened at each stage. He breaks chronological order in this section by talking about the events leading up to the Corcyra battle, it could be for any of these four reasons, he has shown the crisis point now he wants to explain how it came to this or after attaching the reader with a battle and an argument he needs to justify why he believes Spartan feat of Athenian aggression to be motivation for the Peloponnesian war. He hopes that the Pentecontaetia period will prove him right or he wants to show the Athenians power over the 50 years. He shows that the Athenians are powerful “so Athens took over the leadership”, he also gives evidence of Athenian aggression because the Athenians put pressure on their allies to pay them and not letting them leave the league. Thucydides explains that it’s the leagues fault for making Athens so powerful by giving them money instead of ships. He covers up to the truce but nothing else, the rest is a mystery he should have included everything about the Pentecontaetia age to be a good Historian about this time period.
Sparta not happy with building of fortifications “they themselves did not like the idea of Athens or any other city being fortified”. Spartans object but negotiations are delayed and they are too late “the Athenians were capable of making up their own minds”. Piraeus (harbour of Athens) now protected this is the tool for empire building “he at once began to join in laying the foundations of their empire”. Pausanias unpopularity, people leave and change sides “because of his unpopularity, the allies, apart from the soldiers from the Peloponnese had gone over to the side of the Athenians”. “decide which states should furnish money and which states should send ships – the object being to compensate themselves for their loses by ravaging the territory of the king of Persia”. Athens began to be harsh to those who cannot afford tribute or ships “made themselves unpopular by bringing the severest pressure to bear on allies who were not use to making sacrifices”.
Thucydides explains the causes in detail like Herodotus does towards the end of his writings. He breaks chronological order in this section like Herodotus often does by using digression in his writings. Thucydides only covers up to the Corcyra and the Spartan debate he doesn’t talk about the rest of the Pentecontaetia age, he just misses out that large chunk of history which would have been useful to know and he should have included some information about, as we have no idea what happened in that time period, Herodotus often does that in his writings as well, he jumps from one time to another without talking about the time in-between which would have been useful to know to better understand the Persian and Peloponnesian wars.
The Stories of Pausanius and Themistocles
Thucydides gives an account of who Pericles, Pausanius and Themistocles are. He says that that Pericles (Athenian) is a descendant of a long cursed family (for killing people who took refuge at an alter after a rebellion). The Spartans then requested that he was exiled to gain favour with the Gods but also more likely to get their own way with the Athenians. The Spartans hoped to make Pericles unpopular. Pausanias (Spartans) – in response to Pericles being accused, Athens accuse Pausanius, they accuse him of changing to the Persian side with the aim of ruling all Greece. Pausanias had a great reputation after Plataea and got big headed. He started to act like a Persian food, clothes, contacts, he schemed with the Helots to rebel with him against Spartan, he then ran away and hid in a temple, is bricked in and dies. Themistocles – in response, Sparta accused Themistocles of siding with the Persians too, Athens agreed to punish him, Themistocles then ran away from Argos to Corcyra then mainland opposite. He then ran to Persia who happily accept him.
Thucydides explains in good detail what happened to Pericles, Pausanius and Themistocles. It helps us see the causes for war and how the Athenians and Spartans thought against each other before the war began. However, Thucydides is extremely biased towards Themistocles, while other people have had only brief statements said about them, Themistocles has a whole section wrote about him and how great he is.
Pericles – “he was the most powerful man of his times and in his leadership of the state he invariably opposed Sparta…urging Athens on to war”
Themistocles – “Themistocles was a man who showed an unmistakable natural genius”, “exceptional”, “beyond all others deserves our admiration”, “this man was supreme”
Herodotus doesn’t go into as much detail about any pacific people like Thucydides does in this section; he doesn’t include any digression in this section as the stories relate back to the war. Like Herodotus, Thucydides is biased, although he claimed in his introduction that he would be a better historian he then does the same thing as Herodotus.
Spartan ultimatum and Pericles reply
1 – Spartan embassy on the Megara issue - Megara were farming on holy land and held slaves that then ran away from Athens. Athens then closed of parts and didn’t let them go anywhere, Megara went poor, the Spartans said they should stop or they will fight Athens but they said no.
2 - Pericles speech – he told the Athenians that they shouldn’t give into the Spartan decree or it will make them look weak for giving in. 3 – Why Sparta is weak – they have no money and will spend ages getting it as they only collect money in times of war. 4 – The importance of the navy and Spartan’s lack of one – Spartan is good at fighting on land but Athens is good at both the sea and land. 5 – Pericles recommendation for action – offers a little leeway which he knows Sparta will refuse so they will get the blame for the war starting. 6 – Persian war link, they should be as good their fathers were in the Persian war. 7 – Actions to be taken as a result of Pericles speech – vote and then the ambassadors return to Sparta with the idea fails then open war begins.
His good at explaining the cause of battle as he goes into depth about events leading up to the war, he mentions individuals and what they had to say about the matter. He is however being biased towards the Athenians as he curiosities the Spartans fighting skills on land and their ability to build an army but praises the Athenians way saying that they are good at both land and sea battles and have a large powerful army at their disposal.
1 – Spartan embassy on the Megara issue – “war could be avoided if Athens would revoke the Megarian decree”
2 – Pericles speech – “since they will think that you only gave way on this point through fear”
3 – Why Sparta is weak “but this is the main point, they will be handicapped by lack of money and delayed by the time they will have to take in procuring it”
4 – The importance of the navy and Spartan’s lack of one – “for we have acquired more experience of land fighting through our naval operations than they have of sea fighting through their operations on land”
5 – Pericles recommendation for action “that we will give Megara access to our market and our ports, if at the same time Sparta exempts us and our allies from the operations of her orders for this expulsion of aliens”
6 – Persian war link “when our fathers stood against the Persians they had no such resources as we have now…we must live up to the standard they set”
7 – Action to be taken as a result of Pericles speech “their reply to the Spartans were the one he had suggested”
Like previous sections, Thucydides is biased towards the Athenians, Herodotus is biased throughout his writings and is like Thucydides in this way, The speeches said in this section are partly made up since Thucydides has said them from memory of other sources like Herodotus’ speeches are, both have the potential to be influenced by the historians. On a whole Thucydides is a better historian that Herodotus as he doesn’t include digression and goes into more detail about the causes and events of the battle.
Theban attack on Plataea
1 – 300 Thebans went to Plataea and decided to attack; a Plataean opened the only gate to the Thebans because he wanted power. 2 – They entered stood at the market and said to the Plataeans come join our army. 3 – Thinking there were loads of Thebans they said okay then realised there weren’t many of them and in secret made holes connecting their houses together and formed the army they know their land is better, it’s pitch black and pouring with rain. 4 – The army then put wagons in-between the houses to barricade in the Thebans. They then attacked them, slaves and women threw roof slats at them as well. Plataeans locked the only gate with a top of a javelin, some Thebans threw themselves off the walls and died. A couple escaped threw a mini gate with an axe, Plataeans saw and stopped anymore escaping. 5 – They ran into what they thought was an escape but got stuck in a house, the remaining ones surrendered and became prisoners. 6 – The reinforcements were delayed because the river Aspous flooded in the rain when they got there they came to an agreement. 7 – Thebans say they were allowed their prisoners if they left but the Plataeans killed the 180 prisoners. Plataeans said releasing them was never part of the agreement.
Overall Thucydides is good at talking about the Theban attack on Plataea, he covers most aspects, numbers, tactics, who was involved, chronology, equipment, geography, battle moves, the outcome and the causes and objectivity. He doesn’t mention much about the fighting styles which he could have explored in more detail, he doesn’t however include any digression so that the battle doesn’t go off course and gives a detailed account of the events and the aspects involved with the battle.
Numbers – “There were 180 of them”,
Tactics – “making a move against the Plataeans who were outside the city”,
Who involved – “Eurymachus with whom the Plataeans traitors has been negotiating”,
Chronology – “I have recorded the events as they occurred each summer and each winter”,
Equipment – “who hurled down stones and tiles”, “who used a javelin spike as a pin and drove it into the bar”, “A woman gave them an axe”,
Geography – “but Plataea is nearly eight miles from Thebes”,
Battle moves – “women and slaves on the roofs, who hurled down stones and tiles”,
Outcome – “Thebens did retire from Plataean territory without doing any harm and the Plataeans…immediately put the prisoners to death”,
Objectivity – “The Plataeans however do not admit that they promised to give back the prisoners immediately”,
Causes – “the aim…bringing Plataea ever to the Theban alliance”
This section covers most aspects of the battle unlike many of Herodotus’ battle accounts, although Thucydides doesn’t include any information on the fighting styles he covers other aspects, his numbers seem more realistic and accurate than Herodotus’ numbers were, Thucydides has been consistent throughout his writings whereas Herodotus improved as he wrote about the battles.
Pericles funeral oration
The funeral is for all the people that died within the first year of war, during the first year of war the Thebens are blamed for starting the war, there is an Earthquake at Delos. King Archidamnos plans to invade Attica and force the Athenians out from behind their walls. Spartans invade and burn Athens crops in Attica in Pericles orders Athens remains behind their walls but send out cavalry to harass them, the Spartans fail and withdraw and 150 Athenian triremes raid Peloponnese coastline. Pericles speech is after the first year of war, honouring all the Athenians that died. During the speech Pericles talks about how important Athens is.
For the first year of war positives - details Thucydides sets out the strategies for both sides and positions at the start of the war and we understand why the war went on for so long. Negatives – lack of precise detail for Spartan army e.g. no numbers (because he is an ex-Athenian general. He also includes digression, Theseus and Athens/Attica accepting myth.
“So I shall say nothing about the warlike deed by which we acquired our power”, “power is in the hands not of a minority but of the whole people”, “we do not get into a state with our next-door neighbour”, “state-induced courage”, “in our educational systems…yet one just as ready to face the same dangers as they are”, “a man who takes no interest in politics is a man who minds his own business; we say that he has no business here at all”, “our city is an education to Greece”, “we have left behind us everlasting memorials of good done to our friends or suffering inflicted on our enemies”, “fall in love with her”
He doesn’t include numbers, like Herodotus doesn’t on several occasions. He includes digression like Herodotus does, and doesn’t go into detail like Herodotus does. Possibly made up like Herodotus makes up some of his writings.
The Athenians got the plague, the plague made their eyes go red, hoarseness of the voice, breath was horrible, stomach-aches and vomiting, body was hot to touch, pustules, toes and other areas fell off, burning feeling in their head, bleeding mouth, coughing, spasms, diarrhoea, loss of memory and insomnia. There was no treatment for the plague and most people died from it, people began to break the law and the gods didn’t help whether you worshipped them or not.
He gives a detailed analysis of the symptoms to do with the Plague, he doesn’t try to give his own explanations for the plague instead he leaves it up to professionals and he was there so there is a firsthand account which is good. He also goes into detail about the effects the Plague had and overall gives a good detailed account of the plague. We know the outcome but we don’t know the numbers involved.
“their eyes become red and inflamed”, “sneezing and hoarseness of voice”, “and the breath became unnatural and unpleasant”, “next the stomach was affected with stomach-aches and with vomiting of every kind of bile”, “externally the body was not very hot to the touch…the skin was rather reddish and livid, breaking out into small pustules and ulcers. But inside there was a feeling of burning”, “fastening upon extremities of the body affected the genitals, the fingers and the toes and many of those who recovered lost the use of these members”, “people in perfect health suddenly began to have burning feeling in the head”, “inside their mouths there was bleeding from the throat and tongue”, “before long the pain settled on the chest and was accompanied by coughing”, “in most cases there were attacks of ineffectual retching, producing violent spasms; this sometimes ended with this stage of the disease”, “then all the time they were afflicted with insomnia”, “disease descended to the balls, producing violent ulceration and uncontrollable diarrhoea”, “first began to get better, suffered from a total loss of memory”, “I had the disease myself and saw other suffering from it”, “I must leave that to be considered by other writers with or without medical experience”, “as for a recognized method of treatment, it would be true to say that no such thing existed”, “for no one caught the disease twice, or, if he did, the second attack was never fatal”, “become indifferent to every rule of religion or of law”, “self-indulgence which before then they used to keep dark”, “what was both honourable and valuable was the pleasure of the moment”, “as for the gods, it seemed to be the same thing whether are worshipped them or not”.
Goes into details about the plague, he doesn’t include numbers like Herodotus doesn’t at times. There isn’t any use of individuals whereas Herodotus includes individuals all the time. The causes of the plague are explained in detail like Herodotus explains causes well.
The siege of Plataea
Both the Athenians and the Spartans wanted Plataea to join them, the Plataeans say leave us alone because Archidamnus (Spartan) led the Plataeans in the battle at Plataea in the Persian wars and said they could have their freedom because they fought so well. The Spartans then say we will leave you alone if you leave the Delan league as the Spartans don’t want the Athenians to have friends. The Spartans then have the idea that the Plataeans should leave their land so it can be used for war and then it will be returned back to its original state for when they return. The Plataeans talk to the Athenians about the Spartans idea and they say we have not ever abandoned you please don’t do the same to us. The siege then begins, the Spartans built a wooden fence around Plataea and made a mound of wood, stones and earth which took 70 nights and day, They then made a wooden frame around the mound. The Plataeans then made a wooden frame on their side of the wall and then another wall behind the wooden frame so that if the Spartans got in they would be trapped. The Plataeans then cut a section of the mound out and started taking the earth etc away so when the Spartans added to it, it didn’t get any bigger they eventually found out, so they then went underneath the mound and started doing the same, until the Spartans eventually realised. The Spartans then attacked with siege engines (battering rams), but the Plataeans dropped wood from above to break their siege engines, until finally using sulphur and pitch the Spartans set fire to the wooden wall the Plataeans had made and burnt down most of the city.
He gives a detailed account of all three sides, his good as he gives the numbers of Plataeans, the causes of the siege, the movements and tactics, the equipment, his objective and tells you geography involved in the siege, overall good.
“This was the promise given to us by your fathers”, “you may enjoy your independence”, “what you must do is to hand over your city and your houses to us Spartans”, “have never once abandoned you to an aggressor”
Goes into details about both sides view points and the causes for the siege like Herodotus goes into details about the causes of battle. He doesn’t mention any individuals like Herodotus does in his writings. He doesn’t include numbers either only Plataeans numbers not Spartans like Herodotus when he talks about exaggerated numbers or doesn’t mention them.
- 15-05-2013 18:43
Herodotus stories and what they and be used for.
Herodotus – Croesus
- Solon travels Europe and Travels to Sardis meet Croesus ( the Lydian king of Sardis)
- Croesus questions Solon about whether he is the Happiest man ever whilst he shows Solon around his riches
- Solon disagrees with Croesus and tells him that you can only be happy when you are dead – tells him the story of Biton and Cleon, the two brothers that died in Hera’s temple.
- Solon leaves, Croesus goes to the oracle and asks him if he could destroy the Persian Empire. The oracle told him ‘a great empire will fall,’ Croesus took this to believe that he would triumph. Croesus attempts to revolt against the Persian Empire and fails.
- Croesus calls out to Apollo – Apollo sends rain to put out the pyre that Croesus is sanding on.
- Croesus becomes an advisor to the King of Persia Cyrus.
The whole story of Croesus is a digression as it doesn’t need to be included in the Persian wars as it was way before its time. It only shows how powerful the empire was before the wars started
When the story starts Herodotus talks about how only Solon can change Athenian Laws then carries on …. ‘anyway Solon when on with his travels’
The story Solon tells about life … ‘ I have rated life at 70 years’
The story is digression.
Pride before a fall – Croesus asked if he was the happiest man in the world and expected it to be him
‘for god has given many people wealth and destroyed them completely’
‘ Persians attacked Sardis and capture Croesus himself’
‘ in peace sons bury their fathers in war fathers bury their sons,’ – said by Solon
Solon’s speech about happiness- ‘for god has given many people wealth and destroyed them completely
‘ the Persians are by nature a brutal people and live without possessions,’
- Miltiades has a speech to convince the Polemarch Callimachus to fight the Persians.
- The Persians had come because of the Ionian Revolt.
- 10 Athenian generals to fight + and Callimachus
- Philippides ran to Sparta for help – they were busy with a religious festival
- Athens won the battle but had to run back to Sparta (26 miles) to make sure the Persians couldn’t attack from that side.
- Athens won with the platens by outflanking the Persians and a pincer movement; they also captured some Persian ships in the bay.
- The Athenians that died where buried on the battle field.
Individuals ( Hero’s)
Hippias- old pathetic and weak also a little bit on the Persian side.
Miltiades- great influential and a leader on the Athenian.
Philippides - the first ever marathon runner met the Great god Pan. Had he a music competition with him.
Hippias dream – sleeping with his mother that told him he would win the battle.
Philippides on the mountain with Pan.
Festival to remember the Platens that fought at marathon.
Both sides are equally mention with Numbers and deaths and ships
Persian motives and Persian back ground
Hippias character is explained how he came from Greece then have to go to Persia shows Persian background.
The account concentrates on the Greek side of the battle – named dead are only Greek
‘ Athenians engaged Persians in battle they fought heroically,’
Miltiades speech ‘Yoke of the meades’ contrasts with the Greeks.
‘Athenian possessed by madness’… ‘ suicidal madness’
‘the first Greeks to face without flinching the median dress’ - courage
Philippides speech to the Spartans – ‘ don’t let the most ancient city in Greece to fall,’
Philippides met pan – this helped to show the influence the gods had on everyday life
‘when they had taken up positions and the sacrificial omens where favourable’
Hippias tooth dream
Herodotus – Xerxes preparations
- Mardonius persuades Xerxes that he should lead an invasion against Greece and lists the reasons
- Artibanius speaks against Xerxes invasion
- Xerxes has a dream about how he must take over Greece he calls Artibanius who has the same dream convincing him that they must go to war with Greece.
- Pythius son chopped in half because his father asked if he could stay behind to look after him.
- Hellespont crossed
- And a canal built at Athos
- Review of the army at Doriscus when the army is counted in 10,000’s
- Demoratus explains Spartans are slaves to the law not the whip, as a final warning to Xerxes.
Lashing the Hellespont
Xerxes dream about him becoming a nobody if he didn’t invade Greece
The description of the army. All the nations dress and weapons
Debate at Susa ‘ the Persian kingdom will match Zeus’ heaven’
Mardonius arguing his side of the argument
‘ we know their way of fighting we know that they are weak,’ talking about the Greeks
Arrogant – their kingdom will ‘match Zeus heaven,’
Ignorant- Xerxes laughed when Demoratus told him about the Spartans being slaves to the law not to the whip.
Clever engineers at the canal built the canal for Persian ships
Bridged the Hellespont.
Meeting Demoratus gives the Greeks an equal say
Talked about how great the Greeks are to counter act Mardonius argument
- Xerxes arrives at the Trachis just west of Thermopylae and Greek forces assemble under the command of Leonidas.
- After waiting for 5 days for Greek surrender Xerxes finally sends army to fight
- Xerxes army where unable to make any progress for 2 days. Meades then sent in the immortals.
- Local Greek man Ephiatles informs the Persians of a goat path that would lead them behind the Greek forces.
- On the 3rd day Xerxes sends his army around and down the goat path so Leonidas send most of the army home only leaving the Spartans to do their duty and Theban because no one likes them. Leonidas stays and dyes
Xerxes- ‘none more worthy of beauty or stature’ was the kind of Persia during the Persian wars.
Leonidas- ‘the best of men’- king of Sparta who lead his personal body guard of 300 to head the Persians off.
Mentions other people like Demoratus who is the warning character. Also mention other Spartans that were wounded and killed.
Dieneces, ‘ if the meades block out the sun then we shall fight in the shade,’
Demoratus to Xerxes
‘ for this moment you are fighting the finest in Greece , the best of men,’
Comparison of Leonidas to Hector
‘ they showed outstanding courage against the Enemy and gave no thought for their own survival,’
Insisted on Spartan Hero’s
‘ has a lot of people but not many men’ about the Persian army
‘experts against amateurs’
Makes Persians seem bigger and more arrogant- ‘thought they would run away’ what the Persians thought the Persians would do.
‘experts against amateurs’
‘Persians couldn’t make any progress’
Herodotus – Salamis
- Themistocles makes speech Eurybiades to convince him to fight at sea rather than at the Isthmus.
- Xerxes discusses with generals ignoring Artemisia’s decision on a sea battle
- Themistocles tricks Persians into surrounding them which forces the hesitant Greeks to fight.
- Battle of Salamis begins and the Greeks win
- Persians re-treat and Artemisia sinks another ship from their own navy to get away which wins her praise from Xerxes.
Themistocles- pretends to have an idea which isn’t his own
Xerxes- ‘diplomatic’ – ‘opinion of the majority should be followed’
Artemisia- warning character ‘ I’m afraid the whole naval fleet will be destroyed,’
Themistocles – ‘if we fight in the narrows even outnumbered we will probably win a great victory.
Artemisia’s speech ‘ good man lead to have bad slaves and versa’
‘They have been amazed by his bravery that they kept him on board,’- Persians captured a Greek
Given reasons for both sides on why they wanted to fight
Both sided tactics and motives
The oracle speaks that salamis was the place where ‘ we get the better of our enemies’
Apparition of a woman stops the retreating nation ‘gentleman, how long do you think you will keep back pedalling. ‘
- Messengers sent to Greeks by the Persians to call them cowards for changing positions to face the weaker Boeotians.
- Persians Calvary stops Greeks getting to river and spring to get water and unable to get to supply lines.
- Mardonius talks to Spartans calling them cowards. Pausanias asks Athenians for help.
- Mardonius killed by Spartans, Athenians beat Boeotians ( due to their inferior shields and weapons
- Persians retreat behind wooden walls
- Greeks attack and slaughter Persians
- Pausanias has a Persian meal.
Mardonius- ‘ these are not the actions of brave men’
Spartans – ‘finest of men’
Athens – throughout this war you have been the most committed’ Pausanias to Athenians.
‘ they attacked expecting to take the Greeks all out at once,’
‘kill the enemy or be killed… none of this is true’
All the way through Mardonius has the same characteristics as Xerxes
‘He won’t reveal anything else’ they said ‘but he gives names of generals and says he wants to speak to them.’
‘ the freedom or slavery of Greece’
‘accordance with your reputation we have been waiting for you to send a herald to issue us a challenge and express your wish to fight the Persians’
‘ the Persians where no less than their opponents in courage and strength’
‘ they wore no armour, they were untrained and not equal of their opponents expertise’
‘ they attacked in a chaotic and shattering mob’
No one that took refuge in Demeter’s temple died- they were under her protection.
‘ they could not get any favourable omens,’
‘Porsanius looked toward the temple of Hera and called upon the goddess.’
- 15-05-2013 18:43
They're not great but at least it is a start! good luck!
- Thread Starter
- 16-05-2013 09:54
you are a god! Thank you!