Oxford gang found guilty of grooming and sexually exploiting girls

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Reply 200

Umar1

Original post by AverageExcellence

Lol so because a website is detrimentalto Islam,

The site is not detrimental towards Islam, it's on a crusade against it.

Original post by AverageExcellence

citing many examples and asserting official opinions its deemed anti islamic.. Ok sounds right...

Red herring alert.

Let's go back to my query.

Give me the statistics you claimed you had, that said the "overwhelming majority" sexual abuse and rape in Europe is committed by muslims

Not speculation from a anti Islam website, or a list of rapes committed y muslims which you have tried to pass of as "statistics".

And I'll ask again,

Does it hurt your pride to admit your wrong?

Posted from TSR Mobile

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 201

DeluxeJ

Original post by Umar1

The site is not detrimental towards Islam, it's on a crusade against it.

Red herring alert.

Let's go back to my query.

And I'll ask again,

Does it hurt your pride to admit your wrong?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Where are the statistics on Islamophobia one could ask.

Reply 202

fuzznbass

Original post by keep smilling

i think they have to be fir rather than resign

Yes, hopefully they won't contest it either but we shall see

Reply 203

Umar1

Original post by DeluxeJ

Where are the statistics on Islamophobia one could ask.

Who knows where they are?

Our friend "AverageExcellence" made an intriguing post, in which he said "the overwhelming majority" in Europe of rapes are done by perpetrators of Muslim background.

Curiosity kicked in, I asked whether he had any statistics to back up his claims, he replied yes. It turned out he sent me to an article listing rapes across Europe comitted by muslims.

I enquire further and he then sends me to anti Islamic sites, then the red herring and diversions from my questions.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 204

DeluxeJ

Original post by Umar1

What is an anti-Islamic site? A site which causes you to be proven wrong, or offended? I hear this stuff all the time..

Reply 205

Umar1

Original post by DeluxeJ

What is an anti-Islamic site?

The definition of the word anti is being opposed to something. An anti Islamic site is one that is opposed, or against Islam.

Original post by DeluxeJ

A site which causes you to be proven wrong, or offended? I hear this stuff all the time..

If you share the same definitions of "statistics" and "evidence" as AverageExcellence, then I am sure you do so.

The anti Islam site in question, which AverageExcellence used when he backtracked from using the word statistics, but speculation is here;

http://europenews.dk/en/node/63520

Posted from TSR Mobile

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 206

DeluxeJ

Original post by Umar1

I think Anti is a dirty word, it's more used to smear people. I know well of how people have abused terminology to get their own way.

That also doesn't mean the statistics are wrong, or made up. Being against Islam isn't wrong either as many do not believe it is peaceful, but fascist and dangerous. Not believing that a doctrine is healthy for our society is not wrong at all. Many do not want a Christian Theocracy, but calling every single one of them 'Anti-Christian' is very sly.

I guess if you don't want to date men, that makes you 'Anti-Man' or 'Anti-Gay'.

Preposition

Opposed to; against.

A person opposed to a particular policy, activity, or idea.

There is nothing wrong being against a particular policy, idea. Some Muslims are anti-alcohol but I don't go around being so unfair and dirty with it. Using Anti ensues that they're somehow hating blindly against it, or prejudiced.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 207

Theoneoranro

Original post by marcusfox

No, actually what's 'kind of sad' is that you HAVE to come back and play the 'No true Scotsman' card once more because such a similar case has arisen again as everyone said it would.

Rochdale was supposedly an isolated incident... there weren't other grooming gangs coming from a certain demographic - that was your argument.

You've probably forgotten - what with it being all that time and all, but I think what you being a quarter white has to do with it is your ridiculous claim that you are somehow allowed to criticise white people without it being racist because you are a quarter white Italian.

"I'm a quater white italian, so I'm allowed to criticise my own race"

Yet in every other post you self define as Asian and rabidly play the 'No true Scotsman' card whenever (and haven't there been many?) an Asian child grooming gang gets on the front pages and are being criticised - as you did before, and doubtless will do again.

But according to you, you aren't Asian when it comes to criticising white people, you're 'a quater white Italian'.

You can find it here where I called you on it the first time.

The only reason you find it necessary to point out something as completely irrelevant as to you being a quarter white Italian when you criticise white people is because you obviously believe that criticising someone of a different race is racist, otherwise why bring it up?

Thus you believe that white people criticising something a particular group has done is racist if the person doing the criticising is a different race, no matter how valid those criticisms - regarding the post I quoted where you said these people were BNP supporters (and therefore racist) and wouldn't say anything to an Asian's face.

A few months ago another gang in a different English town were similarly convicted and the case was discussed on BBC Radio 2's Jeremy Vine Show...

VINE: If I say that these gangs are usually Pakistani, am I being racist?
BRITISH MUSLIM: Yes! You ARE being racist if you say that!

Hmm...

Mate since the Rochdale case to this case there have been many many many white people and gangs convicted of the same crimes, but I don't see you complaining about that? I've been clicking on the news everyday and seeing white people getting arrested for sexual offences but you're not concerned about those, you only come out when it's the yearly odd Asian gang which is caught. I find that sick, you use that as an excuse to promote your racist angenda. I get the feeling you were bullied by Pakistanis at school or something that's why you've got so much hatred for them.

Reply 208

theonefrombrum

Original post by Thriftworks

Vile. of course bad people come in all shapes, colours and sizes.

However the fact the all the convicted were of pakistani origin, that all the victims were white and that all the 'customers' of these gangs were muslim . Is deeply disturbing as it alludes to ugly cultural and ethnic divisions being exposed within our society. We are no longer culturally cohesive, enjoy the results.

If you add up all of the white people who are exposed as sex abusers and all of the Asian ones, you'll find that in spite of the Pakistani guys often operating in gangs, there' a hell of a lot more white people exposed for it.

Reply 209

ImperatorXI

Original post by Theoneoranro

Original post by theonefrombrum

Forgetting the UK's demographics are we?

Reply 210

Thriftworks

Original post by theonefrombrum

well no crap. what is your point, I'm not blaming the Pakistani community for the majority of sex abuse.

I was just saying that there seems to be an element of us and them within many communities and that it leads to race on race crimes such as these. White people do it to brown skinned people and brown skinned people do it to white skinned people. Race really is irrelevant as the divisions are mainly cultural , this stems from a number of things (culture)

Reply 211

marcusfox

Original post by Theoneoranro

Mate since the Rochdale case to this case there have been many many many white people and gangs convicted of the same crimes, but I don't see you complaining about that?

Oh, look, what a coincidence. True to form you are employing another standard denial tactic. Firstly, it's 'No true Scotsman, and now it's 'What about the white paedophiles, there's more of them?'

I believe you employed a similar argument when we were discussing Rochdale, and the response is the same...

When an article about one or more of these disgusting creatures appears in the media, people don't do anything other than condem it as disgusting, and they certainly don't come up with any of the innumerable excuses used on this thread by yourself.

When an article appears about child sex tourism in Asia - discussing why some white people like to go to these countries where it is easy to get young girls/boys and the enforcement isn't as tight in the UK, white people don't start screaming bloody murder about racism, whitey-o-phobia and deflecting about sex crimes committed by other races.

When you get a thread called "Catholic church paedophile priests", no one comes along to say "I don't understand why it needs to be labelled 'Catholic' and/or 'priests', paedophiles come in all religions and occupations, this crime is down to the individual"

Even though we know full well that the vast vast majority of Catholics and priests (and even Catholic priests) are not paedophiles, the surprising number of incidents that have been uncovered always causes attention to be drawn to the fact that there have indeed been a number of Catholic priests turning out to be paedophiles, and consequently a not undeserved correlation to be drawn between Catholic priests and paedophilia, with multitudes of jokes and innuendos about them buggering altarboys.

No one seems to have a problem with pointing out the fact that those commiting these crimes were Catholic priests, indeed this fact is always relevant and important.

In this case (or number of cases) it was down to a number of groups, not an individual.

And in spite of these groups being widely dispersed around the country with no evidence of any two groups having had contact with each other, every single one of the members of these groups had certain ethnic minority racial characteristics in common and quite possibly religious beliefs too. As did their victims.

According to you, apparently why this is irrelevant and unimportant.

Original post by Theoneoranro

I've been clicking on the news everyday and seeing white people getting arrested for sexual offences but you're not concerned about those,

Really? Clicking on the news every day and seeing gangs of white people getting arrested for raping young girls? I must have missed all those, after all, you'd expect such disgusting crimes do hit the front pages to, a la Rochdale and Oxford, wouldn't you?

Oh, right, you mean the recent celebrity paedophile scandals involving the likes of Stuart Hall, Jimmy Savile, the cast of Coronation street, etc, right?

Firstly, those were lone men, not those acting as part of a gang as in this case, and finally as above, no one is trying to pretend that those crimes are anything other than completely abhorrent, yet again, no one tries to deflect and defend what they did.

Of course you'd expect there to be more (numerically) paedophiles in the white population, given that the ratio of white people to Asians is approximately 10:1, so you'd expect proportionally more incidents from the white population, no?

Comparatively speaking, even when you count the Saviles and the Halls and the odd pervert working as a caretaker who abuses and murders children that comes to media attention now and again, it seems that cases of white groomers are comparatively far between, wouldn't you?

You employed the same argument when Rochdale came out, and now we have Oxford. And you're forgetting Telford. And Derby. And Rotherham. And Bradford and Keighley.

So that's a good half dozen Asian gangs that have hit the headlines in the past couple of years that I remember. I bet I could find more if I tried.

Now for that to have reached some sort of equivalency with white people at 10-1, there should be evidence of at least sixty gangs of white people getting together in groups of five or more, grooming girls (that's even not counting the racist element of the gangs being Asian and the girls being almost exclusively white) drugging them or getting them drunk and passing them round their mates for sex.

Have I been living on another planet or something in the past few years? Have I really missed sixty gangs of white groomers in the news? Tell you what, I can't even remember one.

So go on, there's your challenge. Find one. If you can find one, I'll be impressed.

Original post by Theoneoranro

you only come out when it's the yearly odd Asian gang which is caught. I find that sick, you use that as an excuse to promote your racist angenda. I get the feeling you were bullied by Pakistanis at school or something that's why you've got so much hatred for them.

Yearly? LOL, they are much more frequent than yearly.

And I wonder how many of your 450 or so posts are where you have gone on the defensive and weighed into yet another thread discussing (surprise surprise) another Asian sex gang? I've over 7000 posts, and my posts to Asian sex gang thread ratio is tiny compared to yours...

You don't have to invent twisted fantasies in your mind to make things fit your twisted world view, even though I can quite understand that you'd like to imagine me getting a good kicking, no doubt by some Asians too...

Indeed, I have nothing against the vast majority of Pakistanis, or any other ethnic minority in Britain per se - only when they behave as they do in the thread discussion, or as you do. Funnily enough I had my schooling before the recent wave of immigration, funny how there is no mention of these Asian grooming gangs much before 1997 isn't it?

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 212

Ronove

Original post by interact

haha, lies and lies. Go on the dailymail comment section and then tell me that people haven't demonized the whole Pakistani community.

What bull****. I quite obviously meant in this thread. If you want to go consult the Daily Mail comments section for information, then things are getting pretty desperate. We all know there are a load of ignorant BNP-supporting bigots out there hanging around the Daily Mail website. What would you like us to do about them?

Umar1

The fact that you've ignored my request for you to quote this 'intriguing post' would suggest that you've realised he never said that at all, and yet you're still using it in your argument. If he said it, please post it and I'll just let you carry on.

Reply 213

AverageExcellence

Original post by Umar1

The definition of the word anti is being opposed to something. An anti Islamic site is one that is opposed, or against Islam.

If you share the same definitions of "statistics" and "evidence" as AverageExcellence, then I am sure you do so.

The anti Islam site in question, which AverageExcellence used when he backtracked from using the word statistics, but speculation is here;

http://europenews.dk/en/node/63520

Posted from TSR Mobile

its in norwegian, but go to the table and translate muslim into norwegian and itll lead you to the statistics.

You're getting hung up on statistics, I'm going to show an article which states a case study and statistics on Norway.. no doubt ull dismiss it as anti islamic and therefore bigotted or wrong because you can't face the truth...

https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale_vedlegg/oslo/Vedlegg_1309.pdf

Put that in your pipe and smoke it instead of resting your whole argument on fake hair splitting..

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 214

theonefrombrum

Original post by ImperatorXI

Forgetting the UK's demographics are we?

Not really, the amount of white paedophiles that you see exposed relative to other races is pretty much proportional to their demographic make up.... Type in something like child sex abuse cases into Google and the vast majority of the perpetrators are white..... in line with how many white people there are in the west compared to other races.

Just accept that Asian people aren't all monsters and leave your silly dream of combating the evils of Pakistanis behind as you take the next step forward in your life :smile:

Reply 215

theonefrombrum

Original post by Thriftworks

You wasn't really saying that though was you so I'm not sure why you're rewriting your personal TSR history. You said it now, when defending your post but you never said it or hinted at it and so my reply is still justified. I'm just sick of people banging on about how there's a huge problem with Pakistani sex gangs when there's really not. Most Pakistanis are hard working, religious people who have no desire to commit any of these heinous crimes and yet whenever one of these stories crops up, the vilification inevitably starts and resistance to ignorance quickly weakens.

I'm half Pakistani so I know what I'm talking about and I live in a community where the majority living here are Pakistani and most hate the kinds of bad Pakistanis who commit these sorts of crimes, can everyone please remember that.

Reply 216

Ronove

Original post by AverageExcellence

Can you give some kind of specific pointers for anyone wanting to look through that document? Since I'm bordering on fluent in Danish, I can read Norwegian without problem. The first incidence of the word 'muslim' in that document that came up for me was in the following extract:

Når man bryter voldtektsanmeldelser ned på type voldtekt og identifiserte mistenkte/siktedes landbakgrunn, nærmer man seg et nyansert bilde av forholdet mellom voldtekt og etnisitet. Grove generaliseringer som har gitt inntrykk av at voldtektsmenn kun er utlendinger – og i hovedsak muslimer - viser seg utilstrekkelige og feilaktige

Rough translation:

'When we break reports of rape down into type of rape and the identified suspect/accused's nationality, we get a new picture of the relationship between rape and ethnicity. Coarse generalisations that have given the impression that rapists are just foreigners - and principally muslims - are shown to be insufficient and erroneous.'

Pakistani's

Words from Dr. Taj Hargey, imam in Oxford.

The activities of the Oxford sex ring are “bound up with religion and race” because all the men - though of different nationalities - were Muslim and they “deliberately targeted vulnerable white girls, whom they appeared to regard as 'easy meat', to use one of their revealing, racist phrases”, Dr Hargey said.

That attitude has been promoted by religious leaders, he believes. “On one level, most imams in the UK are simply using their puritanical sermons to promote the wearing of the hijab and even the burka among their female adherents. But the dire result can be the brutish misogyny we see in the Oxford sex ring.”

People tiptoe around the issues and refuse to discuss the problems exposed by the scandals such as those “from Rochdale to Oxford, and Telford to Derby”, he wrote.

In all cases the perpetrators were Muslim men and the victims were under age white girls.

To pretend it is not a problem is the Islamic community is “ideological denial”, Dr Hargey said.

“But then part of the reason this scandal happened at all is precisely because of such politically correct thinking. All the agencies of the state, including the police, the social services and the care system, seemed eager to ignore the sickening exploitation that was happening before their eyes.

“Terrified of accusations of racism, desperate not to undermine the official creed of cultural diversity, they took no action against obvious abuse.”

The men were allowed, he said, to come and go from care homes by the authorities, and if the situation had been reversed with gangs of white men preying on Muslim teenagers ”the state's agencies would have acted with greater alacrity.”

True Islam preaches respect for women but in mosques across the country a different doctrine is preached - “one that denigrates all women, but treats whites with particular contempt,” the Imam said.

The men are taught that women are “second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority," he claims in the column.

“The view of some Islamic preachers towards white women can be appalling. They encourage their followers to believe that these women are habitually promiscuous, decadent, and sleazy — sins which are made all the worse by the fact that they are kaffurs or non-believers.

“Their dress code, from miniskirts to sleeveless tops, is deemed to reflect their impure and immoral outlook. According to this mentality, these white women deserve to be punished for their behaviour by being exploited and degraded.”

Such cases can only be prevented in the future if Britain abandons the blinkers of political correctness, he concludes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10061217/Imams-promote-grooming-rings-Muslim-leader-claims.html

Reply 219

Al-Mudaari

Original post by Lazar Wolf

Words from Dr. Taj Hargey, imam in Oxford.

Just to note: This "imam" isn't someone who people take seriously, at least, Muslims don't. It's thus advisable not to think he speaks for Islam or Muslims, regardless of what his grossly generalised, erroneous message is (like most of them are).

Original post by Lazar Wolf

They are kaffurs or non-believers.

Doesn't even know the plural of Kafir is Kuffar. smh