Oxford gang found guilty of grooming and sexually exploiting girls

Funny you should mention that. You are forgetting of course the extensively documented and reported upon sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic church, aren't you?

When you get a thread called "Catholic church paedophile priests", no one comes along to say "I don't understand why it needs to be labelled 'Catholic' and/or 'priests', paedophiles come in all religions and occupations, this crime is down to the individual"

Even though we know full well that the vast vast majority of Catholics and priests (and even Catholic priests) are not paedophiles, the surprising number of incidents that have been uncovered always causes attention to be drawn to the fact that there have indeed been a number of Catholic priests turning out to be paedophiles, and consequently a not undeserved correlation to be drawn between Catholic priests and paedophilia, with multitudes of jokes and innuendos about them buggering altarboys.

No one seems to have a problem with pointing out the fact that those commiting these crimes were Catholic priests, indeed this fact is always relevant and important.

In this case (or number of cases) it was down to a single group, not an individual.

And in spite of these groups being widely dispersed around the country with no evidence of any two groups having had contact with each other, every single one of the members of these groups had certain ethnic minority racial characteristics in common and quite possibly religious beliefs too. As did their victims.

According to you, apparently why this is irrelevant and unimportant.

Islam is clear on rape and abuse so why is this the case? Is it because the Muslims communities are not really doing enough to educate Muslims on such behavior?

But this demography of people are so far removed from being Muslim, how do you reach out to them? They scoff at religion. They wouldn't be seen dead in a mosque. Why are they expected to be, act, think like a Muslim? Just because their mum or dad were Muslim? When a white British criminal commits a crime, does anyone talk about the failure of the Church? Does anyone tell priest or ministers to look at what they're teaching white, British youth? No. So why should Muslims have a collective responsibility for people that nominally share their faith? It's a double standard.

But this demography of people are so far removed from being Muslim, how do you reach out to them? They scoff at religion. They wouldn't be seen dead in a mosque. Why are they expected to be, act, think like a Muslim? Just because their mum or dad were Muslim? When a white British criminal commits a crime, does anyone talk about the failure of the Church? Does anyone tell priest or ministers to look at what they're teaching white, British youth? No. So why should Muslims have a collective responsibility for people that nominally share their faith? It's a double standard.

They were targeted them because white, non-Muslim girls are seen as 'less' of value in their communities.

I live in London and have seen this type of hostile, aggressive and degrading attitude toward white women. Although these were not women, they're were 12 year old kids. Just abusing the unclean infidels as they saw it.

I have read this entire discussion, and frankly, I'm disappointed at the quality of debate here. I myself am a practicing Muslim, and I'm disgusted by the existence of these gangs (as any sane person should be) and annoyed at the way the media cover it.

I think it's fair to say that these scumbags had a Muslim background. By that, I mean someone in their family would have practiced Islam at some point. That does NOT make them Muslims. It's interesting, religious background only becomes an issue in the media when someone with a Muslim background commits a crime. If religious background were mentioned in EVERY news article, we'd be seeing expressions like 'Christian rapist' or 'Atheist abuser' much more frequently (as it is, we don't see that at all). What I'm trying to say is that these people are definitely NOT practicing Muslims.

It's funny how people here are blaming Islam for sexual repression etc etc and all the tired, lazy stereotypes about Muslims. These men belong to the drinking, drug-taking, clubbing, hedonistic subculture of their communities. Any Muslims on this board will know exactly the sort of people I'm talking about. The kind that you see twice a year at Eid prayers with zigzags shaved into their hair, but you will never see anywhere near a mosque for the remainder of the year. They were almost definitely getting laid on a regular basis and weren't suffering from any form of 'sexual repression'.

I read Dr Targey's article in the Mail yesterday, and I just laughed out loud. It was so abysmally poor, he is a shameless self-promoter, and will just say what the Establishment wants to hear to get ahead. Any Muslims here ever hear an Imam talk about white girls negatively? Any Muslims here ever heard an Imam even talk about sex?!?! No. I have been going to mosque for the better part of 20 years and never heard the sentiments discussed in that article mentioned by a scholar. And Dr Targey is implying these scumbags even attend mosque. What an idiot. I bet he can't name a single Imam that has said any of the things he says in that article. If he can, then he's complicit in all of this for not alerting the authorities. He is a brazen liar.

Are these people just 'targeting white girls'? I would argue that they target anything vulnerable with a vagina. There have been cases of these gangs raping Asian girls too. I recall Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra writing that Asian girls would be less likely to report any abuse because of the increased stigma associated with being raped in that particular culture. What no-one else is addressing is that Pakistanis are a close knit community. They all know each other. My wife is half-Pakistani and her dad seems to be related somehow or other to 70% of Bradford. If word had got out that a Pakistani man had raped a Pakistani girl, then that man would almost definitely find himself dismembered by the girl's brothers, uncles, cousins etc. I'm sure you've all heard the expression 'don't s*** where you eat'. That's why it may seem that they are targeting white girls specifically whereas in reality it is merely a logistical issue.

It's such a dumbass argument to say 'well, the Prophet's wife was a child, so child rape is permitted by Islam'. Utter nonsense. First of all, none of these men give a damn about religious teaching, so why would they give a damn about the Prophet's behaviour? Secondly, Aisha is considered by just about every Muslim to have been post-pubescent when she married the Prophet, so how does that legitimise sex with a child?

Funny, how when the papers show you the mug shots of 'Muslim terrorists', they're always beardy, stern looking men with hats and robes etc. And the supposed 'Muslim paedophiles' look nothing more than chavs. Why has no-one made this observation? If Islam encouraged paedophila, wouldn't we be seeing a lot of beardy, robed guys in these grooming gangs?

The bottom line is these people are nothing more than drug dealing, criminal scum. Islam is against any sexual activity outside marriage. Religion is a red herring here folks. Try to look at the story from a different angle.

Eb1234

if that floats your boatbut in the case of this , Thriftwork incorrectly 'collectively' described these as asian, when two were african. They were all however muslim, so that is a more accurate description was the point.

Also the point was that some rather simple minded people automatically equate muslim=asian , which it does not, there are far more non-muslim asians on the planet, islam is a middle eastern religion, like christianity, not an asian one.

Funny you should mention that. You are forgetting of course the extensively documented and reported upon sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic church, aren't you?

When you get a thread called "Catholic church paedophile priests", no one comes along to say "I don't understand why it needs to be labelled 'Catholic' and/or 'priests', paedophiles come in all religions and occupations, this crime is down to the individual"

Even though we know full well that the vast vast majority of Catholics and priests (and even Catholic priests) are not paedophiles, the surprising number of incidents that have been uncovered always causes attention to be drawn to the fact that there have indeed been a number of Catholic priests turning out to be paedophiles, and consequently a not undeserved correlation to be drawn between Catholic priests and paedophilia, with multitudes of jokes and innuendos about them buggering altarboys.

No one seems to have a problem with pointing out the fact that those commiting these crimes were Catholic priests, indeed this fact is always relevant and important.

In this case (or number of cases) it was down to a single group, not an individual.

And in spite of these groups being widely dispersed around the country with no evidence of any two groups having had contact with each other, every single one of the members of these groups had certain ethnic minority racial characteristics in common and quite possibly religious beliefs too. As did their victims.

According to you, apparently why this is irrelevant and unimportant.

I just don't understand why the word 'Muslim' get bandied about so much. Like I say, I don't mind if there's evidence that people perpetrating a crime are Muslim (although, there is still a double standard, as other criminal's religions are invariably never mentioned) are labelled as such. It's just when we have a scenario whereby drug dealing, chav scum are labelled as Muslim, for no other reason than their families may have been Muslims at some point. I have a problem with that.

'They', if we can call them 'they', by accepting they share a cultural background, have certain things in common. They are hugely overrepresented in this particular crime - what else are people supposed to do? Continue to skirt around their backgrounds and pretend they randomly all happened to get together and decide to do this and they were all randomly fine with it?

But why isn't the same standard therefore applied to white (nominally 'Christian') paedophile rings? I'm quite old so remember a case in Belgium of a paedophile ring in the 90s going up to the highest echelons of society. Nobody referred to their ethnicity or faith. A paedophile ring was uncovered in Cornwall last year (minimal media coverage btw) of ALL white people. Why wasn't their religious background mentioned in the media coverage.

If I am guilty of the No True Scotsman fallacy, all I want is some consistency with how these crimes are reported. I think I have illustrated my case in my previous posts with enough examples and counter examples.

Here's an experiment you can do: go to dailymail.co.uk. Go to the search facility. Type in 'paedophile ring'. Click 'oldest' first. Scroll through the articles. You will not find a single mention of ethnicity or religion in any article unless it's Pakistanis (with the exception of Catholic priests). If they want to talk about religion (even though that is completely immaterial to the discussion) they should talk about everyone's religion. Otherwise they shouldn't mention it.

How can you not grasp that it is because the proportion of these people with Pakistani Muslim backgrounds (regardless of whether you would say they can be called Muslims themselves) make up an entirely disproportionate amount of the perpetrators in these particular group grooming cases, and that white, Christian people aren't mentioned as being white/Christian because that is the way to describe the vast majority of the population. It doesn't narrow anything down whatsoever and does not have even a hint of significant correlatory value, unlike the Pakistani Muslim issue.

No-one is saying about Pakistanis, or about Muslims. You can say it has nothing whatsoever to do with being Pakistani and nothing whatsoever to do with being Muslim all you like, but then we're still left with a shocking number of Pakistani Muslim perpetrators of this crime. If we can't talk about possible connections, we're not going to get anywhere. Stop being so bloody defensive and obstinate.