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    Recently, after the events of the Madrid bombings, I had a pensive thought. Blaming Eta was ridiculous and blaming al-quada for the attacks, if you sum everything up, is just as absurd. I can’t help but question the motives of al-quada…why on earth would they want to bomb Madrid?! It’s not like they could’ve foreseen that Spain was going to vote in a Socialist government. Killing 200 people to avenge the attacks of a government on Iraq was silly, when most of the Spanish were opposed to the war.

    And many of the events that surrounded the situation lead me to question everything…why would al-queda leave a video in a bin outside the station that they bombed?! Why is it that the acknowledgment of attacks sent to an Arabic newspaper, have not been broadcast on TV like previous ones? Why did the Spanish authorities, in such a fragile time, permit a group of Moroccans, who had previously been charged with the Casablanca bombings of May, to reside in Spain?

    Equally, all this makes me question 9/11. Why is that America suddenly turned its back on al-queda, after years of training them to fight the Soviets? Why did Daddy Bush finance a dictator, and why does Baby Bush still support dictatorships in Saudi Arabia (despite knowing all the hijackers came from there), Egypt and recently Libya? Why is it that Bush bombed Afghanistan, put a puppet leader, and then didn’t even bother to find Bin Laden? Why have the prisoners of Gauntanamo Bay been held for nearly 3 years now, and not been charged?!

    And how could some old helpless guy, who knows nothing but firing with a gun and killing, plan and carry out such ingenious attacks? With all the satellites and intelligence that America have, surely they could’ve foiled 9/11 and if not that, the attacks on Bali, or Casablanca, the synagogues in Turkey and Tunisia. Since Europe had been put on such high alert since 9/11, how could they have not known what was coming…I mean we live in countries, where every single telephone call we make, email we send, move we make is monitored and documented by intelligence.

    Now I am a rather cynical person, and I’m not exempting Al-queda from blame. But all this seems to lean in favour of the Americans, really. It seems as though Islamic terrorism has become the new Communism. They attacked Korea and Vietnam in the name of fighting Communism and now they’ve attacked Afghanistan and Iraq in the name of fighting terrorism…it all seems to be suspicious. And as someone mentioned in a previous thread about George Orwell’s 1984…George Orwell seems to have foreseen all this and was trying to warn us? It seems as though all these events are screaming out for another Kristallnacht.

    The most ironic thing, was the other day when i was going to school and seeing police roaming around Waterloo station...if a bomb was planted and about to blast how could they stop it? And those posters that say dial 999 if you see anything suspicious…wakey wakey we’re in a tunnel phones don’t work! This is all just to get us paranoid...
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Recently, after the events of the Madrid bombings, I had a pensive thought. Blaming Eta was ridiculous and blaming al-quada for the attacks, if you sum everything up, is just as absurd. I can’t help but question the motives of al-quada…why on earth would they want to bomb Madrid?! It’s not like they could’ve foreseen that Spain was going to vote in a Socialist government. Killing 200 people to avenge the attacks of a government on Iraq was silly, when most of the Spanish were opposed to the war.

    And many of the events that surrounded the situation lead me to question everything…why would al-queda leave a video in a bin outside the station that they bombed?! Why is it that the acknowledgment of attacks sent to an Arabic newspaper, not have been broadcast on TV like recent ones? Why did the Spanish authorities, in such a fragile time, permit a group of Moroccans, who had previously been charged with the Casablanca bombings of May, to reside in Spain?

    Equally, all this makes me question 9/11. Why is that America suddenly turned its back on al-queda, after years of training them to fight the Soviets? Why did Daddy Bush finance a dictator, and why does Baby Bush still support dictatorships in Saudi Arabia (despite knowing all the hijackers came from there), Egypt and recently Libya? Why is it that Bush bombed Afghanistan, put a puppet leader, and then didn’t even bother to find Bin Laden? Why have the prisoners of Gauntanamo Bay been held for nearly 3 years now, and not been charged?!

    And how could some old helpless guy, who knows nothing but firing with a gun and killing, plan and carry out such ingenious attacks? With all the satellites and intelligence that America have, surely they could’ve foiled 9/11 and if not that, the attacks on Bali, or Casablanca, the synagogues in Turkey and Tunisia. Since Europe had been put on such high alert since 9/11, how could they have not known what was coming…I mean we live in countries, where every single telephone we make, email we send, move we make is monitored and documented by intelligence.

    Now I am a rather cynical person, and I’m not exempting Al-queda from blame. But all this seems to lean in favour of the Americans, really. It seems as though Islamic terrorism has become the new Communism. They attacked Korea and Vietnam in the name of fighting Communism and now they’ve attacked Afghanistan and Iraq in the name of fighting terrorism…it all seems to be suspicious. And as someone mentioned in a previous post about George Orwell’s 1984…George Orwell seems to have foreseen all this and was trying to warn us? It seems as though all these events are screaming out for another Kristallnacht.
    Basically, what a load of tosh. What are you tryying to say that America knew all about bali, 9/11 etc and just let it happen. Let's get a grip, no government in the world would permit such an attack. Totally absurd to even suggest such a thing.

    Al-Q'aida are evil from beginning to end. Now, lets look at it. Spain's government took the country to war in Iraq, it doesn't matter what the people thought. This bombing was going to hurt the country. Frankly, do Al-Q'aida care if the socialists won? No. They simply hate the Western way of life. The fact that the socialists won was a bonus in a way. As if they care though .

    How do you link Communism and Terrorism in the way American is fighting them. Communism at the time was taken out of context and was being used in an inhumane way by the stalinistc governments. What is 'suspicious' about America fighting terrorism, it's terrorism afterall!

    Everything is monitored yes, but there are ways and means to get through monitoring processes. This is a highly trained and organised terrorist group. Most are educated, they aren't stupid, they know what they are doing.

    Bush supports Saudi because the government supports America. Give me clear evidence of mass murder etc in Saudi Arabia?

    Not bother to find Bin Laden? Well if you watch the news mate, you'll find that Al-Q'aidas number two is totally surrounded in Pakistan. Therefore the hunt is clearly ongoing.

    Stop the conspiracy theories please. Especially when there is no concrete base for one.
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Recently, after the events of the Madrid bombings, I had a pensive thought. Blaming Eta was ridiculous and blaming al-quada for the attacks, if you sum everything up, is just as absurd. I can’t help but question the motives of al-quada…why on earth would they want to bomb Madrid?! It’s not like they could’ve foreseen that Spain was going to vote in a Socialist government. Killing 200 people to avenge the attacks of a government on Iraq was silly, when most of the Spanish were opposed to the war.

    And many of the events that surrounded the situation lead me to question everything…why would al-queda leave a video in a bin outside the station that they bombed?! Why is it that the acknowledgment of attacks sent to an Arabic newspaper, not have been broadcast on TV like recent ones? Why did the Spanish authorities, in such a fragile time, permit a group of Moroccans, who had previously been charged with the Casablanca bombings of May, to reside in Spain?

    Equally, all this makes me question 9/11. Why is that America suddenly turned its back on al-queda, after years of training them to fight the Soviets? Why did Daddy Bush finance a dictator, and why does Baby Bush still support dictatorships in Saudi Arabia (despite knowing all the hijackers came from there), Egypt and recently Libya? Why is it that Bush bombed Afghanistan, put a puppet leader, and then didn’t even bother to find Bin Laden? Why have the prisoners of Gauntanamo Bay been held for nearly 3 years now, and not been charged?!

    And how could some old helpless guy, who knows nothing but firing with a gun and killing, plan and carry out such ingenious attacks? With all the satellites and intelligence that America have, surely they could’ve foiled 9/11 and if not that, the attacks on Bali, or Casablanca, the synagogues in Turkey and Tunisia. Since Europe had been put on such high alert since 9/11, how could they have not known what was coming…I mean we live in countries, where every single telephone we make, email we send, move we make is monitored and documented by intelligence.

    Now I am a rather cynical person, and I’m not exempting Al-queda from blame. But all this seems to lean in favour of the Americans, really. It seems as though Islamic terrorism has become the new Communism. They attacked Korea and Vietnam in the name of fighting Communism and now they’ve attacked Afghanistan and Iraq in the name of fighting terrorism…it all seems to be suspicious. And as someone mentioned in a previous post about George Orwell’s 1984…George Orwell seems to have foreseen all this and was trying to warn us? It seems as though all these events are screaming out for another Kristallnacht.
    Well written, well justified, and well thought out. So what site did you copy and paste this from?

    (Original post by Woodsy)
    Basically, what a load of tosh. What are you tryying to say that America knew all about bali, 9/11 etc and just let it happen. Let's get a grip, no government in the world would permit such an attack. Totally absurd to even suggest such a thing.

    Al-Q'aida are evil from beginning to end. Now, lets look at it. Spain's government took the country to war in Iraq, it doesn't matter what the people thought. This bombing was going to hurt the country. Frankly, do Al-Q'aida care if the socialists won? No. They simply hate the Western way of life. The fact that the socialists won was a bonus in a way. As if they care though .

    How do you link Communism and Terrorism in the way American is fighting them. Communism at the time was taken out of context and was being used in an inhumane way by the stalinistc governments. What is 'suspicious' about America fighting terrorism, it's terrorism afterall!

    Everything is monitored yes, but there are ways and means to get through monitoring processes. This is a highly trained and organised terrorist group. Most are educated, they aren't stupid, they know what they are doing.

    Bush supports Saudi because the government supports America. Give me clear evidence of mass murder etc in Saudi Arabia?

    Not bother to find Bin Laden? Well if you watch the news mate, you'll find that Al-Q'aidas number two is totally surrounded in Pakistan. Therefore the hunt is clearly ongoing.

    Stop the conspiracy theories please. Especially when there is no concrete base for one.
    Thanks Woodsey. You truly are an objective thinker. Just dismissing it like that. Well done.

    For what it's worth (and it's not worth a great deal) I'm with ThornsnRoses on this one.
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    (Original post by Mad Caddie)
    Well written, well justified, and well thought out. So what site did you copy and paste this from?
    excuse me?!...just because we can write better than you...!

    But why dont you try and find out...
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    excuse me?!...just because we can write better than you...!
    Lolz.. now now..
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    (Original post by Woodsy)
    Basically, what a load of tosh. What are you tryying to say that America knew all about bali, 9/11 etc and just let it happen. Let's get a grip, no government in the world would permit such an attack. Totally absurd to even suggest such a thing.

    You are forgetting that the goverment we speak of is the US government. A government which should legally not even be in power. A government which has breached countless number of international laws, treaties and conventions, whats to say they didn't want the attacks to occur. It gives them a motive, thats all they need.

    Al-Q'aida are evil from beginning to end. Now, lets look at it. Spain's government took the country to war in Iraq, it doesn't matter what the people thought. This bombing was going to hurt the country. Frankly, do Al-Q'aida care if the socialists won? No. They simply hate the Western way of life. The fact that the socialists won was a bonus in a way. As if they care though .

    Woah, some major ****ing assumptions being made here. How can you be so sure that Al Quaida is who we are led to believe. You are simply regurgetating the rubbish which is splashed across the right-wing media.

    How do you link Communism and Terrorism in the way American is fighting them. Communism at the time was taken out of context and was being used in an inhumane way by the stalinistc governments. What is 'suspicious' about America fighting terrorism, it's terrorism afterall!

    There are so many flaws in the justification to go to war that it would be pointless me writing them all out. You have not looked at the bigger picture before you made youur assumptions.

    Everything is monitored yes, but there are ways and means to get through monitoring processes. This is a highly trained and organised terrorist group. Most are educated, they aren't stupid, they know what they are doing.

    Who is funding them? Who has trained these so called terrorists to be who they are? America, thats who, does that not bother you?

    Bush supports Saudi because the government supports America. Give me clear evidence of mass murder etc in Saudi Arabia?

    Bush also supports Israel, handing them 50 billion dollars every year, now they are a very humane society as well aren't they?

    Not bother to find Bin Laden? Well if you watch the news mate, you'll find that Al-Q'aidas number two is totally surrounded in Pakistan. Therefore the hunt is clearly ongoing.

    If you has actually been watching the news, you would realise that pakistan said it only surrounded some possible Al Qaida fighters. It has repeated that it has not captured Bin Laden or his number 2.

    Stop the conspiracy theories please. Especially when there is no concrete base for one.

    The only conspiracy is the one which you have been led to believe.
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    (Original post by roseonthegrave)
    Thanks Woodsey. You truly are an objective thinker. Just dismissing it like that. Well done.

    For what it's worth (and it's not worth a great deal) I'm with ThornsnRoses on this one.
    Watch the e in Woodsy there.

    Anyway, outline your reasons for America knowing all about the terrorist attacks and then covering it up?

    Thankyou.
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    (Original post by Woodsy)
    Basically, what a load of tosh. What are you tryying to say that America knew all about bali, 9/11 etc and just let it happen. Let's get a grip, no government in the world would permit such an attack. Totally absurd to even suggest such a thing.
    Hitler didnt mind attacking his own people and blaming it on the jews!

    (Original post by Woodsy)
    Al-Q'aida are evil from beginning to end. Now, lets look at it. Spain's government took the country to war in Iraq, it doesn't matter what the people thought. This bombing was going to hurt the country. Frankly, do Al-Q'aida care if the socialists won? No. They simply hate the Western way of life. The fact that the socialists won was a bonus in a way. As if they care though.
    If al-queda hated the western way of life, and they probably do, why did they accept Bush finance their war on the Soviets! I agree they dont care that the Socialists, so don't you think the attacks suspiciously took place 3 days before the general election!

    (Original post by Woodsy)
    How do you link Communism and Terrorism in the way American is fighting them. Communism at the time was taken out of context and was being used in an inhumane way by the stalinistc governments. What is 'suspicious' about America fighting terrorism, it's terrorism afterall!

    So basically, you are saying its justifiable to attack Iraq, a country that has nothing to do with terrorism.

    (Original post by Woodsy)
    Everything is monitored yes, but there are ways and means to get through monitoring processes. This is a highly trained and organised terrorist group. Most are educated, they aren't stupid, they know what they are doing.

    Are you telling me a guy that can only recite the Koran, probably doesnt know what it means, cant even read it, a guy who lives in the mountains of the poorest country in teh world is educated and has the means for such attacks!

    (Original post by Woodsy)
    Bush supports Saudi because the government supports America. Give me clear evidence of mass murder etc in Saudi Arabia?

    Saudi Arabia has one of the most barbaric, unwestern, undemocratic regimes in the world. Its a country which excerises capital punishment, something it has in common with the civilised america. And is one of the most oppresive governments against its people.

    (Original post by Woodsy)
    Not bother to find Bin Laden? Well if you watch the news mate, you'll find that Al-Q'aidas number two is totally surrounded in Pakistan. Therefore the hunt is clearly ongoing.

    In Pakistan by Pakistanis...not an american job at all.

    Stop the conspiracy theories please. Especially when there is no concrete base for one.[/QUOTE]
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    Mad Cadde:

    I'm not throwing out ring-wing rubbish. As a left-wing socialist I wouldn't. I don't particularly like America, but to even suggest that a country which has protected the free world in the last century, knew about attacks all over the globe - is totally absurd. If you think Europe could have been liberated in 1945 without America, then you're having a laugh.

    Communism in its form in the last century was truly evil. America fought it through any means it could, that includes handing weapons to the Taliban etc.

    It's not America turning on the Islamic fundementalists, but the other way about. Israel and Palestine is the most complicated political issue on the globe, frankly, If hamas stopped blowing themselves up at bus stops, then Israel reprisals would stop.

    Nobody should give credence to people that try to achieve their objectives through terrorism. That includes the situation in Palestine and the middle-east in general.

    Again, why wouldn't America jsut foil the attacks, if they know all about them? I can hear the subject of oil being floated about somewhere, somehow, I don't think so. The American government is full of intellectuals, much smart than any of us, that have the same basic principles that other intelligent people have.
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Hitler didnt mind attacking his own people and blaming it on the jews!

    If al-queda hated the western way of life, and they probably do, why did they accept Bush finance their war on the Soviets! I agree they dont care that the Socialists, so don't you think the attacks suspiciously took place 3 days before the general election!

    They took the cash because it was a means to an end. They wanted the soviets out of their country, so take the weapons etc and then do the job. When thats done they can concentrate on America


    So basically, you are saying its justifiable to attack Iraq, a country that has nothing to do with terrorism.

    Mass graves etc found. Can you give me a quote from American or British representatives, in the lead up to war, which linked Iraq and terrorism.

    Are you telling me a guy that can only recite the Koran, probably doesnt know what it means, cant even read it, a guy who lives in the mountains of the poorest country in teh world is educated and has the means for such attacks!

    The have been educated by the people within the regime. They aren't educated as we would define it. Simply, the are aware of everything that goes on, i.e. they have a biased view, but can act on this view quite capably.

    Saudi Arabia has one of the most barbaric, unwestern, undemocratic regimes in the world. Its a country which excerises capital punishment, something it has in common with the civilised america. And is one of the most oppresive governments against its people.

    You've just praised the West in that paragraph, after slating everything that America, the epitamy of the 'West' has done. Provide me with some evidence regarding 'barbaric' Saudi Arabia. Yeah well some people argue that if you murder people, you should die for the crime. Not my opinion, but I can see why people still hold this view.


    In Pakistan by Pakistanis...not an american job at all.

    yes and American job. Do you think the British and American special forces would leave it all to the Pakistanis, I don't think so.

    Stop the conspiracy theories please. Especially when there is no concrete base for one.
    [/QUOTE]
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    yeh its a conspiracy, but dont tell anyone
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    No.
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    And how could some old helpless guy, who knows nothing but firing with a gun and killing, plan and carry out such ingenious attacks?
    You've met him, have you? He's a shockingly wealthy man, and evidently more intelligent than you give him credit for.

    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    With all the satellites and intelligence that America have, surely they could’ve foiled 9/11 and if not that, the attacks on Bali, or Casablanca, the synagogues in Turkey and Tunisia.
    How do you expect a bunch of satellites to warn the US about the WTC attack? They had plenty of intelligence surrounding Bin Laden at the time, but you can't know everything; and the attack was evidently very well planned and executed.

    Since Europe had been put
    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    on such high alert since 9/11, how could they have not known what was coming…I mean we live in countries, where every single telephone call we make, email we send, move we make is monitored and documented by intelligence.
    I love pointless conspiracy ******** like this. Can you imagine the manpower required to document every single telephone call and email in the developed world? How many people have a telephone in the UK alone? An email account? Who's doing all this montioring; and before you claim some tosh about it being MI5 or someone because you've watched it on TV, where's some proof?

    I mean, every move you make is documented by intelligence agencies? Are you have delusions of grandeur?

    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    The most ironic thing, was the other day when i was going to school and seeing police roaming around Waterloo station...if a bomb was planted and about to blast how could they stop it? And those posters that say dial 999 if you see anything suspicious…wakey wakey we’re in a tunnel phones don’t work! This is all just to get us paranoid...
    ... by calling in the appropriate people. You can defuse and dispose of bombs, you know. Alternatively, they can evacuate people.

    And if you're in a tunnel, find a payphone; or get above ground! If someone sees something they think warrants police attention but can't be arsed to go and call it in, then what do you expect?
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    (Original post by Zarjazz)
    I love pointless conspiracy ******** like this. Can you imagine the manpower required to document every single telephone call and email in the developed world? How many people have a telephone in the UK alone? An email account? Who's doing all this montioring; and before you claim some tosh about it being MI5 or someone because you've watched it on TV, where's some proof?

    I mean, every move you make is documented by intelligence agencies? Are you have delusions of grandeur?



    ... by calling in the appropriate people. You can defuse and dispose of bombs, you know. Alternatively, they can evacuate people.

    And if you're in a tunnel, find a payphone; or get above ground! If someone sees something they think warrants police attention but can't be arsed to go and call it in, then what do you expect?
    Well they monitor certain people, anf filter certain words etc that can be used. Surely people who had previously been convicted of terrorist attacks should be monitored with scrutiny.

    And well...i think the bombs would have gone off by them time you even got out of the station to call someone...oh my...the logic is oozing out of you...'find a payphone' as if terrorists are going to give you the chance.

    Most wealthy people, who have inherited their wealth, tend to be idiots that sit around leaching of their parent's money.
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Well they monitor certain people, anf filter certain words etc that can be used. Surely people who had previously been convicted of terrorist attacks should be monitored with scrutiny.

    And well...i think the bombs would have gone off by them time you even got out of the station to call someone...oh my...the logic is oozing out of you...'find a payphone' as if terrorists are going to give you the chance.

    Most wealthy people, who have inherited their wealth, tend to be idiots that sit around leaching of their parent's money.
    I think it's game, set and match to those that say it wasn't a conspiracy. What a ridiculous argument. How many people in the Al'Q'aida network have actually convicted of terrorism? In relation to the amount of people in the organisation, it is virtually nil. Anyway, those that had can always feed information through other sources.
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Well they monitor certain people, anf filter certain words etc that can be used. Surely people who had previously been convicted of terrorist attacks should be monitored with scrutiny.
    You're saying that without much certainty; if you don't know what intelligence agencies can do, then don't post nonsense. Face it, unless your government has a specific reason to look at you closely, no-one is listening to your phone calls. I'm sure they can monitor some people closely and do, but give the whole "Big Brother" thing a rest.

    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    And well...i think the bombs would have gone off by them time you even got out of the station to call someone...oh my...the logic is oozing out of you...'find a payphone' as if terrorists are going to give you the chance.
    There's no need to get personal. You were talking about signs telling you to dial 999 if you see something suspicious; THAT'S when I was suggesting you find a payphone. Most bombs seem to be on timers nowadays, so if you spot something odd, find a payphone, ring it in, get the police out, you might well have a chance. Why would a terrorist hang around watching his own bomb before triggering it?

    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Most wealthy people, who have inherited their wealth, tend to be idiots that sit around leaching of their parent's money.
    That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation! "Most" wealthy people? So based on that statement above you've decided that Bin Laden must be a slightly sorry old man with no intelligence? Face it, that's not the case.
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    (Original post by ThornsnRoses)
    Well they monitor certain people, anf filter certain words etc that can be used. Surely people who had previously been convicted of terrorist attacks should be monitored with scrutiny.

    Yes, but the majority of attacks aren't necessarily carried out by those who have been associated with such things before. And even if they were, government truly can't find out everything there is to know about a large list of people, to such an extent that they can predict their every move and prevent any attrocity they would like to commit.

    And well...i think the bombs would have gone off by them time you even got out of the station to call someone...oh my...the logic is oozing out of you...'find a payphone' as if terrorists are going to give you the chance.

    What, when a bombs about to go off the terrorists that planted it wait there, so they can get blown up too? Despite the numerous suicide bombers of this world, the majority of terrorists aren't going to get themselves killed for no reason. They plant bombs, and they get the hell out of there.

    Most wealthy people, who have inherited their wealth, tend to be idiots that sit around leaching of their parent's money.

    [b]Most wealthy people are idiots? Ignoring the fact that that's ********, saying "most wealthy people are idiots" does not equate to "Osama Bin Laden is an idiot".b]
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    (Original post by Zarjazz)

    That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation! "Most" wealthy people? So based on that statement above you've decided that Bin Laden must be a slightly sorry old man with no intelligence? Face it, that's not the case.

    Well it does not show much intelligence to abondon his family etc to live in a mountain where all he does is sleep, eat, **** and gun people down...
 
 
 
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