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The indigenous Egyptians are being persecuted and genocided into extinction. Watch

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    http://www.copts-united.com/English/...p?I=857&A=9806

    I am told that the Obama administration are helping the persecutors. What do you think?
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    Indigenous Egyptians? :lolwut:
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    (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
    Indigenous Egyptians? :lolwut:
    The Kopts. They are last vestiges of the indigenous population. Obviously not the ancient Egyptian indigenous population which died out with the Persian and Greek rulers of course.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    The Kopts. They are last vestiges of the indigenous population. Obviously not the ancient Egyptian indigenous population which died out with the Persian and Greek rulers of course.
    Actually, they are directly descended from the ancient Egyptians. The Coptic language is also directly descended from ancient Egyptian (hieroglyphs) - it's now a dead language (like Latin) but it only died out 300-400 years ago.
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    (Original post by Pastaferian)
    Actually, they are directly descended from the ancient Egyptians. The Coptic language is also directly descended from ancient Egyptian (hieroglyphs) - it's now a dead language (like Latin) but it only died out 300-400 years ago.
    The language certainly is. The direct descendents of the Egyptians left in the world would be the Fellahin, but I am not aware of any Fellahin as Kopts. Moreover, the last indigenous Egyptian dynastes were the Saite rulers who gave way to the Persians and Greeks. The indigenous people of the land, it is a assumed, just disintergrated into sparse communities on the fringes of Egyptian towns, the Fellahin being the last to survive.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    The language certainly is. The direct descendents of the Egyptians left in the world would be the Fellahin, but I am not aware of any Fellahin as Kopts. Moreover, the last indigenous Egyptian dynastes were the Saite rulers who gave way to the Persians and Greeks. The indigenous people of the land, it is a assumed, just disintergrated into sparse communities on the fringes of Egyptian towns, the Fellahin being the last to survive.
    The last of the Greek rulers (Cleopatra VII) spoke fluent Egyptian. She took the trouble to learn the language in order to communicate with the native Egyptian nobility, priesthood and masses. Think of the Persian and Greek dynasties like the Norman invasion of England... a few thousand soldiers imposed their culture and, for a while, their language on the nation's upper echelons, but they had a limited impact on the gene pool, and never persuaded the masses to abandon their native language.

    There is no ethnic distinction between Copts and Fellahin, just cultural differences. Both are descendants of the ancient Egyptians, AFAIK.
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    (Original post by Pastaferian)
    The last of the Greek rulers (Cleopatra VII) spoke fluent Egyptian. She took the trouble to learn the language in order to communicate with the native Egyptian nobility, priesthood and masses. Think of the Persian and Greek dynasties like the Norman invasion of England... a few thousand soldiers imposed their culture and, for a while, their language on the nation's upper echelons, but they had a limited impact on the gene pool, and never persuaded the masses to abandon their native language.

    There is no ethnic distinction between Copts and Fellahin, just cultural differences. Both are descendants of the ancient Egyptians, AFAIK.
    She also spoke Hebrew. Now Cleopatra inherited the throne from the Ptolemaic line, still Greek but not Egyptian. The Ptolemies inherited ther throne from the Persian kings, still not Egyptian. The Persians took over from the Saites and Ku****es, who were for the most part from Kush and Libya.

    The Kopts are not Egyptians (although I might be wrong), but are a cultural vestige of Egypt during the Roman period, and their race was mixed: Greek, Libyan, Abyssinian, Nubian. The Fellahin are nothing like the Kopts, as far as I am aware, apart from appearance perhaps.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    http://www.copts-united.com/English/...p?I=857&A=9806

    I am told that the Obama administration are helping the persecutors. What do you think?
    Er, hardly any more indigenous than the average Egyptian, I should say. Also, the Copts of Egypt are known to be troublemakers, so I shouldn't take any claims they make of persecution seriously.
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    (Original post by Bertie Wooster)
    Er, hardly any more indigenous than the average Egyptian, I should say. Also, the Copts of Egypt are known to be troublemakers, so I shouldn't take any claims they make of persecution seriously.
    The Arabs?
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    The copts are way after ancient Egyptians lol, Ancient Egyptians were not of any European or Asian/Arabian descent at the time
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    She also spoke Hebrew. Now Cleopatra inherited the throne from the Ptolemaic line, still Greek but not Egyptian. The Ptolemies inherited ther throne from the Persian kings, still not Egyptian. The Persians took over from the Saites and Ku****es, who were for the most part from Kush and Libya.
    She also spoke quite a few other languages, fluently. But not Latin, strangely. If you are interested in her life, I'd recommend Margaret George's 'Memoirs of Cleopatra', my favourite historical novel. But the Ptolemies didn't inherit Egypt from the Persians - they seized it when Alexander the Great's empire broke up after his death. But the changes in the upper echelons had little effect on the masses.

    The Kopts are not Egyptians (although I might be wrong), but are a cultural vestige of Egypt during the Roman period. The Fellahin are nothing like the Kopts, as far as I am aware, apart from appearance perhaps.
    You are right that the Copts' cultural heritage dates back to the Roman and Byzantine periods, when Christianity spread over Egypt. Prior to that, they were worshipping isis and other gods. The Fellahin shared the same ethnic background, but either resisted conversion to Christianity or subsequently converted to Islam. There is probably little intermarriage between the groups nowadays, and the cultural differences are significant, but my point was that they are both descendants of the ancient Egyptians (as opposed to Bedouin and Nubians, who have very different ethnic origins).

    (Original post by Student-Andrew)
    The copts are way after ancient Egyptians lol, Ancient Egyptians were not of any European or Asian/Arabian descent at the time
    Edit to add: "way after" is incorrect, I'm afraid. The Coptic language was first written in the 5th century AD, overlapping with the Demotic script which was one way of writing the last version of the ancient Egyptian language. One culture gradually gave way to the next - the scripts changed periodically, the culture changed gradually, and the genes were transmitted without interruption.
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    (Original post by Bertie Wooster)
    Er, hardly any more indigenous than the average Egyptian, I should say. Also, the Copts of Egypt are known to be troublemakers, so I shouldn't take any claims they make of persecution seriously.
    What do you mean "known to be troublemakers"? Those pesky copts, always getting in the way of tanks and bullets...
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    http://www.copts-united.com/English/...p?I=857&A=9806

    I am told that the Obama administration are helping the persecutors. What do you think?
    I think considering most Muslim Egyptians are descended from native Egyptian lineages that converted, it's not a case of indigenous persecution but good old fashioned religious.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    I think considering most Muslim Egyptians are descended from native Egyptian lineages that converted, it's not a case of indigenous persecution but good old fashioned religious.
    No. The Arabs are not the direct descendants of the Egyptians. The Arabs are more Levant, Syria, Petra. More Bedouin.
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    To everybody on this thread:
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    Erm, sorry, Copts are no more indigenous than other Egyptian. They're all Arab. I'm speaking as a half Egyptian myself. And they're not as persecuted as some sections of the media make it out to be. My sister came back from a visit to Egypt a few months ago. Obviously, any persecution is bad. But from what I could tell, a lot of the grass roots campaigning/protesting in Egypt has brought Christians and Muslims a little closer there.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    http://www.copts-united.com/English/...p?I=857&A=9806

    I am told that the Obama administration are helping the persecutors. What do you think?

    Yes coptic persecution has increased in egypt since the ousting of Mubarak. There are numerous cases of coptic woman being abducted by muslim families and forced to marry muslim men with no help coming from the judicial system or the police. With regards to obama helping the persecutors; i dont think it is active support however obama has continued financial and military aid to egypt. He could apply pressure to the egyptian government to ensure better protection for the copts under the law.

    Heres a video of American congressional hearing regarding coptic persecution

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    (Original post by Eb1234)
    Erm, sorry, Copts are no more indigenous than other Egyptian. They're all Arab. I'm speaking as a half Egyptian myself.
    I hesitate to tell you that's wrong but... http://books.google.com/books/reader...sec=frontcover (page 127)
    However, ethnic origin is only one definition of 'Arab' - in other senses you are also correct.

    And they're not as persecuted as some sections of the media make it out to be. My sister came back from a visit to Egypt a few months ago. Obviously, any persecution is bad. But from what I could tell, a lot of the grass roots campaigning/protesting in Egypt has brought Christians and Muslims a little closer there.
    Well, people getting along with each other rarely makes the news. There have been a lot of stories about persecution lately, but whether that's because there are more incidents or more reporting of incidents (or both) is hard to say.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    No. The Arabs are not the direct descendants of the Egyptians. The Arabs are more Levant, Syria, Petra. More Bedouin.
    A fair point if valid but while the egyptians may claim to be 'Arab' I'm confident a quick search for genetic lineages and so forth will prove that the bulk of current Egyptians are from native lines back from pre-Arab/Muslim periods.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    A fair point if valid but while the egyptians may claim to be 'Arab' I'm confident a quick search for genetic lineages and so forth will prove that the bulk of current Egyptians are from native lines back from pre-Arab/Muslim periods.
    Correct. There are two (non-exclusive) definitions of Arab. One is someone who traces his/her ancestry to the tribes from the Arabian peninsula, the other is someone whose ancestors have been 'arabised' (influenced by the culture of Arab society, including adopting the language). The Copts are not Arabs by the first definition, because their ethnic origins trace back to the ancient Egyptians, not to the Arab invaders who brought Islam to the country. However, they are undoubtedly Arabs by the second definition.

    The book I referenced ('Ethnic Groups Worlwide') confirms that the three ethnic ancestors of modern-day Egyptians are Copts, Nubians and Bedouin. Only the latter are Arabs by the first definition.
 
 
 
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