TSR George
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#1
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#1
What are your thoughts of HS2?

Do you think it will help the country out in terms of its economy and hence is the multi-million price tag good value or not?
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Rakas21
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I'd prefer something more akin to the high speed north plan but i do believe that we need extra capacity and higher speeds so broadly, yes.

I find the notion of a train line ruining the countryside to be absurd which appears to be the main opposition.
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SHallowvale
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I dislike how it will have to run through the countryside, but at the moment it seems like the whole thing is inevitable.

Although I don't get why people complain about the costs, it really isn't that much. Yes, £32 billion sounds scary, but we'll be spending that over the course of 30 years. An extra £1 billion spent each year isn't much of a big deal. Hell, we already spend more on diabetes than we would on this.
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meenu89
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It is going through our village. Although Warwickshire county council are against it, the Tory leader lost his seat and their majority because of it.
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biggie
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The money would be better spent improving nationwide infrastructure.
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SHallowvale
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No...? :confused:

I'm saying that an extra £1 billion a year isn't at all much money. I've put it into the bigger picture: we already spend more on diabetes a year (around £8 billion) than we would do on HS2.

I'm not asking for the money, which goes towards helping those with diabetes, to be redirected to HS2. I don't get how you've taken it that way.




Most likely the costs at todays rates.
Last edited by RK; 8 months ago
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Luketreherne
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Who and why do we we need to get to Birmingham any quicker , the olny benefit i can see is that you will be able to get away from birmingham faster in 2026 than you can currently in 2013.
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Morgsie
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Both the West Coast and East Coast Mainlines will be full according to Network Rail projections. Patch and mend is not on option because we have a Victorian railway. This capacity argument has not been mentioned.

We're playing catch up because Europe developed High Speed rail in the 1980's and China is building them at the moment
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Rakas21
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(Original post by meenu89)
It is going through our village. Although Warwickshire county council are against it, the Tory leader lost his seat and their majority because of it.
Are we talking pretty much through or a mile or two away?



Technically i think the costs are based on 2015-2032 so 17 years and a little under £2bn per year however the London-Birmingham stretch actually takes up half the cost.

I also think people should remember that the big money spinner here is actually current air passengers from Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds to Europe, the connection to HS1 could very well be quite lucrative.

(Original post by biggie)
The money would be better spent improving nationwide infrastructure.
Already are, the coalition is presiding over the biggest railway investment (excluding HS2) in over a century. The main problems however are the limitations we have, our signalling is out of date and won't be upgraded completely for another decade (should get to 140mph) and we insist on running lines which are not profitable and drain the system.
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meenu89
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Are we talking pretty much through or a mile or two away?
Two miles from the nearest point.
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Selnec
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If it was free, I'd snap it up. I just think more benefit could be had for that price.

If I had £30bn and was in charge of the DfT, I'd put 10 into trying to make sustainably fuelled cars really work and become widespread, and then 10 into building new roads and improving current ones. The last 10 I'd put into improving public transport in urban areas.

I say this, because however much you invest in it, high speed rail can only ever connect major cities, and a lot of the benefit will be wasted by poor public transport connections either end. It may be planned to only take about an hour to get to London on the actual train itself from Nottingham, but to get to the Nottingham station at Toton it would take about 2 hours by public transport. Total journey time would then be around three hours. With that journey time, why shouldn't I drive?
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Selnec)
If it was free, I'd snap it up. I just think more benefit could be had for that price.

If I had £30bn and was in charge of the DfT, I'd put 10 into trying to make sustainably fuelled cars really work and become widespread, and then 10 into building new roads and improving current ones. The last 10 I'd put into improving public transport in urban areas.

I say this, because however much you invest in it, high speed rail can only ever connect major cities, and a lot of the benefit will be wasted by poor public transport connections either end. It may be planned to only take about an hour to get to London on the actual train itself from Nottingham, but to get to the Nottingham station at Toton it would take about 2 hours by public transport. Total journey time would then be around three hours. With that journey time, why shouldn't I drive?
In the Nottingham case there will be a tram from the city. It's a good point that you raise but ultimately the benefit is for business and encouraging people to live closer to these transport links. As much as people like to, living in the green fields of Bedfordshire from a public service point of view is woefully inefficient.
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MatureStudent36
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#13
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A lot of diabetes is preventable. People need to just stop getting fat.
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Rakas21
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#14
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Freight cannot access it due to the European guage.

Anybody and everybody. The idea is that it forms part of the European High Speed Network and may take away air passenger traffic like the Chunnel did.
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Rakas21
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European trains will, UK trains will not.

Business commuters.
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Rakas21
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Nope your not.

Trains serving current UK routes will not be compatible other than the Eurostars currently serving HS1 which will connect to it.
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Rakas21
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Yes, that's what i meant.
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Alex17595
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#18
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They will be built to the gauge of the European railways which is pointless as there may not be a link between HS1+2 highly restricting stock movements.

This would allow double deck trains to run.


There should be more intermediate stations in route served by a slower services (similar to LM on WCML) which don't have to be very large stations but evening or and early morning service for other commuters. small loops wouldn't cost much in the large schemes of things.
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Alex17595
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There is a possibility of no link as I can't see much demand for a non stop service without stopping in London, all the extra cost to avoid a 10 mins walk from Euston to St Pancras. There is a possibility of double deckers as the gauge will allow it.

None of this is set in stone but my opinion (and other from railuk forums)
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Palindromic
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Its cheaper to fly to manchester than it is to get the train (even with a rail card). Thats at current rail fees, if we have the HS2 the price of a ticket will be even higher, thus flying is a better option still. Flying will also still be quicker obviously so i see no point in the high speed railway at all.
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