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Islamist views and related crime stories in the UK - how to deal with it watch

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    There appears to have been another islamic fundamentalist crime today, What are your opinions on how to address the rise in islamist views and extremism ? It has always been a problem obviously in muslim countries but it is becoming an issue in western countries which have immigrant muslim populations. Its islam specifically that gets highlighted it seems because many western countries have immigration of various religions without these same accompanying problems.


    So what is the answer? it looks like these men today who beheaded an off duty soldier could have been radicalised by a imams, shiekhs in the uk, or in a uk mosque, often muslims get radicalised by muslim preachers, that have ability to manipulate their minds and emotions. Muslim Couincil of Britain seems to be toothless, has no influence over muslims, their main and only role seems to be to issue a media led condemnation of each incident that hits the papers.
    So what are the options -

    should there be more monitoring and undercover operations on these targets? Sting operations in mosques

    should there be mandatory registration of imams and preachers? Criminal conviction checks?

    Profiling of young muslim men as there are for black teenagers in inner city stop and search etc

    Internet monitoring

    Workshops for muslim males to improve education, teach them to understand western values, to help them integrate better


    what do you think?
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    Yeah because profiling Muslims is gonna solve the problem and not cause a huge backlash :rolleyes:

    What do you think happens when a single group of people are singled out of the population, put under extra surveillance, extra scrutiny........all it leads to is further justification for extremists to use as a means to gather support and tension will eventually hit a critical point and all hell will break loose and people will die.

    Also profiling because someone is young and black is racist and inherently wrong, neither skin colour nor religion will tell you whether someones doing something wrong or not.

    Sting operations in mosques?????? Have you seen what happened in the US, where they put a guy encouraging terrorism to innocent reverts, etc innocent people brainwashed by the CIA and gone to jail and guess what all these Mosques are now wary about any sort of relation with the CIA and has led to distrust, a breakdown in any sort of communication is not helpful.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Yeah because profiling Muslims is gonna solve the problem and not cause a huge backlash :rolleyes:

    What do you think happens when a single group of people are singled out of the population, put under extra surveillance, extra scrutiny........all it leads to is further justification for extremists to use as a means to gather support and tension will eventually hit a critical point and all hell will break lose and people will die.

    Also profiling because someone is young and black is racist and inherently wrong, skin colour nor religion will tell you whether someones doing something wrong or not.

    Sting operations in mosques?????? Have you seen what happened in the US, where they put a guy encouraging terrorism to innocent reverts, etc innocent people brainwashed by the CIA and gone to jail and guess what all these Mosques are now wary about any sort of relation with the CIA and has led to distrust, a breakdown in any sort of communication is not helpful.
    There is nothing wrong with statistical discrimination its perfectly sensible.
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    This is ridiculous. Just because a few idiots that call themselves muslims commit acts of terrors, we should hate/generalise against millions of muslims that are completely innocent? I'm a "young muslim man" like you quoted, and I was born and raised in this country and am very patriotic/100% British.

    Just because a few sick people commit these acts, I have to live with prejudice and hate, it makes me sick.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Yeah because profiling Muslims is gonna solve the problem and not cause a huge backlash :rolleyes:

    What do you think happens when a single group of people are singled out of the population, put under extra surveillance, extra scrutiny........all it leads to is further justification for extremists to use as a means to gather support and tension will eventually hit a critical point and all hell will break lose and people will die.

    Also profiling because someone is young and black is racist and inherently wrong, skin colour nor religion will tell you whether someones doing something wrong or not.

    Sting operations in mosques?????? Have you seen what happened in the US, where they put a guy encouraging terrorism to innocent reverts, etc innocent people brainwashed by the CIA and gone to jail and guess what all these Mosques are now wary about any sort of relation with the CIA and has led to distrust, a breakdown in any sort of communication is not helpful.
    i think we are passed that point- already whenever there is some attack in a civilian society, most people automatically think 'muslim' this is a result of past experiences - not just british people, everyone. i think muslims know and accpet that there is already more scrutiny of muslims than there has ever been, and this has been unavoidable. there is teams in mi6 and met police specifically setup to monitor islamist threats. the question is now whther this needs to be extended or not, or if you have other solutions to propose, you can do so here. profiling and undercover operation in europe anyway have been extremely successful, most of the last 10 or 15 arrests of islamists have been as a result of surveliance and or sting operations. there was in fact a plot in birmingham by islamists to behead a muslim solder in uk forces, which was foiled by surveillance.
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    (Original post by Maybenexttime)
    This is ridiculous. Just because a few idiots that call themselves muslims commit acts of terrors, we should hate/generalise against millions of muslims that are completely innocent? I'm a "young muslim man" like you quoted, and I was born and raised in this country and am very patriotic/100% British.

    Just because a few sick people commit these acts, I have to live with prejudice and hate, it makes me sick.
    well it appears the two men today in woolwich were young muslim men also born here too. they became radicalised by muslim preachers of some sort, at some point, no doubt this wasnt a lifelong ambition,and were filmed quoting medieval quotes like "eye for an eye" standing over a decapitated body. So they go their ideas from somewhere.
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    (Original post by Mr Big)
    well it appears the two men today in woolwich were young muslim men also born here too. they became radicalised by muslim preachers of some sort, at some point, no doubt this wasnt a lifelong ambition,and were filmed quoting medieval quotes like "eye for an eye" standing over a decapitated body. So they go their ideas from somewhere.
    And what about the thousands of murders that happen every year committed by non-muslims? You're saying we should search ALL young muslim men IN CASE they are terrorists?

    What these two men did was disgusting, but to suggest that the solution to this would be to generalise all muslims as terrorists is sheer lunacy. If anything this would increase the cultural rift even more, and cause even more hate crimes.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Yeah because profiling Muslims is gonna solve the problem and not cause a huge backlash :rolleyes:

    What do you think happens when a single group of people are singled out of the population, put under extra surveillance, extra scrutiny........all it leads to is further justification for extremists to use as a means to gather support and tension will eventually hit a critical point and all hell will break lose and people will die.

    Also profiling because someone is young and black is racist and inherently wrong, skin colour nor religion will tell you whether someones doing something wrong or not.

    Sting operations in mosques?????? Have you seen what happened in the US, where they put a guy encouraging terrorism to innocent reverts, etc innocent people brainwashed by the CIA and gone to jail and guess what all these Mosques are now wary about any sort of relation with the CIA and has led to distrust, a breakdown in any sort of communication is not helpful.
    I suppose Muslims don't profile people. They rioted and killed people after the innocent of Muslims film. They rioted and burnt danish embassies after the Muhammad depiction. Islam is dealing with people around the world collectively..
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    That does not mean all muslims are terrorists! I am a Muslim, however I love England! A few men who are labelled as Muslims, yet they don't comply to the law of Islaam "Don't kill innocent people"!

    I find it ridiculous that cause of a few men - the whole of the Muslim Community should be harmed. Sting Operations? So that even when you are praying to your God you feel watched?!
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    (Original post by MsFahima)
    That does not mean all muslims are terrorists! I am a Muslim, however I love England! A few men who are labelled as Muslims, yet they don't comply to the law of Islaam "Don't kill innocent people"!

    I find it ridiculous that cause a few men - the whole of the Muslim Community should be harmed. Sting Operations? So that even when you are praying to your God you feel watched?!
    Those Muslims should be labelled as humans. The human race should be put to shame as a hole nit one group
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    (Original post by Maybenexttime)
    And what about the thousands of murders that happen every year committed by non-muslims? You're saying we should search ALL young muslim men IN CASE they are terrorists?

    What these two men did was disgusting, but to suggest that the solution to this would be to generalise all muslims as terrorists is sheer lunacy. If anything this would increase the cultural rift even more, and cause even more hate crimes.
    no you are putting words in mouth. In the case of murders where the murder beheads a member of the public or blows himslef in town up chanting "aloo akbar!" its 100 times more likely to be a muslim culprit than a jewish or sikh for example. So it makes absolute perfect sense to defend against these sort fo crimes by focussing on the breeding ground for islamist views. Where are these views expressed? well by radical preachers, imams and in mosques. We know this is fact becuase most of the recent bombers in the west have attended and became radicalised in mosques. It is where police would collect the most intelligence on islamist cells and possible radicalised youth.

    If a murder occurs by a white man on the run, police will have numerous white suspects in mind and interview them all- they arent all guilty nor is that the presumption. But the police wouldnt do its job if it didnt treat them all as possible suspects.

    besides which this is just one of the options i listed
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    (Original post by DeluxeJ)
    I suppose Muslims don't profile people. They rioted and killed people after the innocent of Muslims film. They rioted and burnt danish embassies after the Muhammad depiction. Islam is dealing with people around the world collectively..
    Islam doesn't equate Muslims automatically, there is a significant difference.

    And talk about generalisation :rolleyes: What he's talking about is profiling on faith, essentially discrimination on the basis of faith, singling an entire group out, which is wrong and stirs further hate.
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    (Original post by Iqbal007)
    Islam doesn't equate Muslims automatically, there is a significant difference.

    And talk about generalisation :rolleyes: What he's talking about is profiling on faith, essentially discrimination on the basis of faith, singling an entire group out, which is wrong and stirs further hate.
    The race card is getting old now. Yep, you pretty much said it. Taking offence only for Muslims :rolleyes:
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    closiing the borders seems the only viable option to me. Kicking people out is always gonna be much harder than stopping any more getting in.
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    (Original post by MsFahima)

    I find it ridiculous that cause of a few men - the whole of the Muslim Community should be harmed. Sting Operations? So that even when you are praying to your God you feel watched?!

    mosque is not used jsut for this, it is a community centre, social scene and is also used by islamists to recruit peoepl to kill themselves. there have been a number of high profile operations showed arressted terrorists attended certain mosques,

    in this story police bugged a mosque to arrest mosque leaders for a terrorist plot

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/06/ny...06missile.html

    so by monitoring mosques and preachers, authorities get an update on possible crimes and also radicalised youths
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    (Original post by DeluxeJ)
    The race card is getting old now. Yep, you pretty much said it. Taking offence only for Muslims :rolleyes:
    Where have I mentioned someones race :rolleyes: I mentioned faith, did you even bother to read what the OP wrote, he wants to single out a group based on their faith which is discrimination.
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    (Original post by Frube)
    There is nothing wrong with statistical discrimination its perfectly sensible.
    OK. Let's play devils advocate here. Statistically, your average serial killer is a white male, so according to you, all white males should be monitored for any possible serial killing motives that they may have
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    (Original post by de_monies)
    OK. Let's play devils advocate here. Statistically, your serial killer is a white male, so according to you, all white males should be monitored for any possible serial killing motives that they may have
    No, but if there is a serial killer on the loose I think its perfectly fine to start looking at the most likely white males first if no racial info is known. The whole idea of profiling is not to blame/monitor every individual of a group, its simply to play closer attention to such group. Nothing wrong with that.
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    (Original post by Frube)
    No, but if there is a serial killer on the loose I think its perfectly fine to start looking at the most likely white males first if no racial info is known. The whole idea of profiling is not to blame/monitor every individual of a group, its simply to play closer attention to such group. Nothing wrong with that.
    OK. Then do you agree with the monitoring of all Muslims?
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    It is key to point out that islam is not to blame for this inncident, not all muslims are to blame for this digusting crime which was carried out by two insane ppl who clearly do not understand the customs of their own religion.
    Its not muslims to blame, so u cant say that we shouldnt allow muslims in the country or tht we shud deport them, that is just frankly racist.
    Remember terrorists are individuals and in the past have come from numerous religoins. Lets keep our heads and remember who our friends are.

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