Should the world community try to topple dictators Watch

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jammyd
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#21
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#21
This is a tough question. I might try and answer it later
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jammyd
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#22
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#22
Right

Well, obviously there are many arguments for and against. The UN doctrine is that military action is only justifiable in defence, retaliation, or if they give their blessing. The Blair doctrine is that military action is justified in the name of human rights. This has created a new discourse and is relevant regarding Iraq. I understand Mr White has mentioned the issue of sovereignty in this thread, I think in years to come human rights will be held in higher regard than the sovereingty of the authoritarian dictator.

The US is obviously an important world power, contributing 25% of the UN's budget. I don't think they would like to fund the overthrowing of dictators around the world. FDR famously said 'he may be a ******* but he's our *******' - this is clearly US policy; just look at Saudi Arabia. They have an awful human rights record and isn't even a democracy.

There was much debate over the Iraq invasion; some people asked why Robert Mugabe wasn't overthrown. This is simple - Africa is marginal in International Relations. Iraq is also strategically important, but as the cold war has ended, Zimbabwe isn't so.

On the whole, I think they should be removed - this is a highly western realist view - but that's what I am
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Howard
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#23
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#23
(Original post by moncal)
America will never give up its democracy. Half of all americans would rather assasinate the government then give up democracy.
I disagree. Americans would asasinate their government before giving up their guns, but not their democracy.

Tell the average American that the presidential elections for 2004 are going to be "postponed for a while......in the interests of national security and combating terrorism" and he won't bat an eyelid. Tell that same American to hand in his pistol to the Sherriff's department and you'll have a civil war on your hands.
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Howard
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#24
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#24
The biggest joke is in the question. "The world community" couldn't empty my ashtray without spilling the contents all over the floor, so I think our expectations of them being able to "topple dictators around the world" is a bit optimistic.

Look at the mighty Europe for example. Economic powerhouse that it is and it couldn't sort out a minor tiff in it's own back yard; Yugoslavia.

"World community".......my hat!
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Sam2k
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Howard)
I disagree. Americans would asasinate their government before giving up their guns, but not their democracy.

Tell the average American that the presidential elections for 2004 are going to be "postponed for a while......in the interests of national security and combating terrorism" and he won't bat an eyelid. Tell that same American to hand in his pistol to the Sherriff's department and you'll have a civil war on your hands.
There is no possible reason why the elections would be postponed and americans have the right to own guns.
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Jonatan
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#26
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#26
(Original post by jammyd)
Right

Well, obviously there are many arguments for and against. The UN doctrine is that military action is only justifiable in defence, retaliation, or if they give their blessing. The Blair doctrine is that military action is justified in the name of human rights. This has created a new discourse and is relevant regarding Iraq. I understand Mr White has mentioned the issue of sovereignty in this thread, I think in years to come human rights will be held in higher regard than the sovereingty of the authoritarian dictator.

The US is obviously an important world power, contributing 25% of the UN's budget. I don't think they would like to fund the overthrowing of dictators around the world. FDR famously said 'he may be a ******* but he's our *******' - this is clearly US policy; just look at Saudi Arabia. They have an awful human rights record and isn't even a democracy.

There was much debate over the Iraq invasion; some people asked why Robert Mugabe wasn't overthrown. This is simple - Africa is marginal in International Relations. Iraq is also strategically important, but as the cold war has ended, Zimbabwe isn't so.

On the whole, I think they should be removed - this is a highly western realist view - but that's what I am
When it comes to Mugabe I agree that he has destroyed Zimbawe's economy and caused a major starvation, but you can hardly compare him to Saddam. Otherwise, I agree with you that the American case for a war in Iraq was not exactly a genious one. They focused to strongly on WMDs when what is really important was Saddams crimes against humanity, his unprovoked atacks against the neighbouring countries as well as his support for terrorist orginisation in the ME. As for teh UN, I have little trust to that Orginisation. The massacre in Rwanda should have been stopped through international intervention, yet it was local rebels who put an end to the genecide after teh UN failed to act. In Cambodja, vietnam invaded and put an end to pol pots massacre without UN sanctioning the atack. Furthermore, the mere idea to have a democratic orginisation run by a majority of non-democratic members is doubt to fail. Dont get me wrong, I think teh UN should exist as a forum for negotioation between countries, but it shoud not be eleveted to the status of morality or an international supreme court.
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Howard
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#27
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#27
(Original post by moncal)
There is no possible reason why the elections would be postponed and americans have the right to own guns.
Yes, thankyou. I know that. Just trying to put across an opinion. :rolleyes:
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