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Racism/Racial Tensions at Oxbridge
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PrinceOfCats
I don't agree. Race riots have occurred in areas of the UK which have been multi-cultural for a long time.
Yes but in these areas (I assume you refer to Bradford or Oldham) there is still a strong element of de facto segregation and a clear divide with kids going to 'white' or 'asian' schools.
The bradford riots or the segragation in general was much more to do with a clash of very different cultures rather than purely skin colour ( i used to live there, although moved away before the riots themselves). Talking with my mum, who was a social worker there for many years (80s and 90s), a lot of the people she encountered, when they were having problems with neighbours etc. was that both sides said that they try to be friendly or get along, but there ended up being lots of misunderstanding and misinterpretation on both sides. Obviously the riots were a lot more than that, and involved an awful lots of pathetic racist thugs, but if anything it was the imposed multiculturalism that caused the problem.
Check out the statistics at the following:
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/eop/raceq/admissions/3.4.shtml
If you can find any evidence of discrimination here, you're a good 'un.
There's no discrim at Ox or Camb. Just ruthlessly meritocratic. Most of my pals might have a problem with Americanisation though: their cultural imperialism; their warmongering; how could anyone who voted Bush in ... twice ... be smart enough for Oxbridge; etc.
If you prefer the way things are handled in the US and 'old Europe' isn't you thing, don't come. If you do come, could you please respect our liberal traditions. Thanks.
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/eop/raceq/admissions/3.4.shtml
If you can find any evidence of discrimination here, you're a good 'un.
There's no discrim at Ox or Camb. Just ruthlessly meritocratic. Most of my pals might have a problem with Americanisation though: their cultural imperialism; their warmongering; how could anyone who voted Bush in ... twice ... be smart enough for Oxbridge; etc.
If you prefer the way things are handled in the US and 'old Europe' isn't you thing, don't come. If you do come, could you please respect our liberal traditions. Thanks.
peliot
Check out the statistics at the following:
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/eop/raceq/admissions/3.4.shtml
If you can find any evidence of discrimination here, you're a good 'un.
There's no discrim at Ox or Camb. Just ruthlessly meritocratic. Most of my pals might have a problem with Americanisation though: their cultural imperialism; their warmongering; how could anyone who voted Bush in ... twice ... be smart enough for Oxbridge; etc.
If you prefer the way things are handled in the US and 'old Europe' isn't you thing, don't come. If you do come, could you please respect our liberal traditions. Thanks.
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/eop/raceq/admissions/3.4.shtml
If you can find any evidence of discrimination here, you're a good 'un.
There's no discrim at Ox or Camb. Just ruthlessly meritocratic. Most of my pals might have a problem with Americanisation though: their cultural imperialism; their warmongering; how could anyone who voted Bush in ... twice ... be smart enough for Oxbridge; etc.
If you prefer the way things are handled in the US and 'old Europe' isn't you thing, don't come. If you do come, could you please respect our liberal traditions. Thanks.
the british empire?
i don't see how any brits can take the moral high ground here. blair has been re-elected more times than bush, and he's only too happy to follow dubya into wars in the middle east.
sea tea
the british empire?
i don't see how any brits can take the moral high ground here. blair has been re-elected more times than bush, and he's only too happy to follow dubya into wars in the middle east.
i don't see how any brits can take the moral high ground here. blair has been re-elected more times than bush, and he's only too happy to follow dubya into wars in the middle east.
Yes, true. But Blair isn't trying to introduce backwards legislation like banning gay marriages. There really is a significant political difference between the US & UK.
The British Empire was from an era of empire. Ditto all the other European powers. Now that we have greater cultural awareness and a more pluralistic outlook on these things, we view it as (at best) amoral / (at worst) immoral. It wouldn't happen again outside fascism ... except by the US of course, which is embarking on an imperialism that is now morally unaccepted anywhere else. If you contextualise what the US is doing, it's far worse than anything the British Empire did (possible exception, Ireland), because it's happening in an age when we know it's wrong.
Nobody can have nuclear power except US; we will police the world; everyone must abide by the Geneva convention except US; everyone must sign up to Kyoto except US; everyone must support the United Nations, financially and morally, except US; I could go on for ever.
The vast majority of people outside the US think it a selfish, self-obsessed, neo-fascist state (like most of the Islamicist states it opposes). Bush is a dim-witted puppet for big (oil/evergy) business, which alone is enough to convince me that Europe's future lies with the EU and with a strong Euro so that we can shake off the cultural dominance that follows the mighty $.
Speaking of the mightly $, that's the only reason we take americans at Oxbridge. God knows, it's not for their sparkling intellect or their erudition!
Nobody can have nuclear power except US; we will police the world; everyone must abide by the Geneva convention except US; everyone must sign up to Kyoto except US; everyone must support the United Nations, financially and morally, except US; I could go on for ever.
The vast majority of people outside the US think it a selfish, self-obsessed, neo-fascist state (like most of the Islamicist states it opposes). Bush is a dim-witted puppet for big (oil/evergy) business, which alone is enough to convince me that Europe's future lies with the EU and with a strong Euro so that we can shake off the cultural dominance that follows the mighty $.
Speaking of the mightly $, that's the only reason we take americans at Oxbridge. God knows, it's not for their sparkling intellect or their erudition!
Making sweeping generalisations about Americans is as bad as racism. Not all Amercians voted for Bush. Nor are all Americans red-necked southerners or evangelists from the mid-west. The USA is a vast country with amazing diversity.
Oxford welcomes open minded intelligent people from all backgrounds and countries.
Oxford welcomes open minded intelligent people from all backgrounds and countries.
HannahZ
Making sweeping generalisations about Americans is as bad as racism. Not all Amercians voted for Bush. Nor are all Americans red-necked southerners or evangelists from the mid-west. The USA is a vast country with amazing diversity.
Oxford welcomes open minded intelligent people from all backgrounds and countries.
Oxford welcomes open minded intelligent people from all backgrounds and countries.
I do not believe that ALL Americans are at all like the stereotype suggested. In fact, a significant proportion of the population don't even vote Republican anyway! However, that does not retract from the fact that the US government (not the US population) do in some ways fit the ideas mentioned by peliot.
Peliot: a lil harsh! I agree with what you said about the US (with a few exceptions!), but you cannot widen this to all American people. Americans are v. welcome at Oxford, and I hope they are not met with such hostility!
Also, what you said about the EU being a counterweight.. I believe it will be China which ultimately overpowers the might of the US.
peliot
. If you contextualise what the US is doing, it's far worse than anything the British Empire did (possible exception, Ireland)
the African slave trade? Millions of black men women and children killed, tortured and enslaved?
Nobody can have nuclear power except US; we will police the world;
peliot
everyone must support the United Nations, financially and morally, except US;
They are the biggest contributors to the UN financially and millitarily.
http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive/2004/Sep/15-489155.html
peliot
neo-fascist state (like most of the Islamicist states it opposes).
Hardly! In what way?
peliot
Speaking of the mightly $, that's the only reason we take americans at Oxbridge. God knows, it's not for their sparkling intellect or their erudition!
Totally wrong. American universities are the best in the world in terms of research output and faculty. And yes a large majority of these faculties are made up of American (60-75% typically) academics.
They too have won the largest percentage of Noble prizes.
American undergrads at Harvard and Yale are on the whole among the best in the world and Oxbridge should be happy to have their best visit here. Have you heard of the Rhodes scholarship?
Forget what this troll is saying. If you want to come to Oxford do it. Nobody i know there has anything against Americans.
HannahZ
Oxford welcomes open minded intelligent people from all backgrounds and countries.
I thought I would qualify this. By 'open-minded' I do not mean that you can't have strong views and opinions. However, you should expect your views to be challenged and be prepared to defend/ justify them by intellectual argument.
The UK in general is a fairly liberal society with extreme right-wingers very much in the minority. There is nothing here that equates to the Republican Party or the Mid-West bible belt.
peliot
Check out the statistics at the following:
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/eop/raceq/admissions/3.4.shtml
If you can find any evidence of discrimination here, you're a good 'un.
There's no discrim at Ox or Camb. Just ruthlessly meritocratic. Most of my pals might have a problem with Americanisation though: their cultural imperialism; their warmongering; how could anyone who voted Bush in ... twice ... be smart enough for Oxbridge; etc.
If you prefer the way things are handled in the US and 'old Europe' isn't you thing, don't come. If you do come, could you please respect our liberal traditions. Thanks.
http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/eop/raceq/admissions/3.4.shtml
If you can find any evidence of discrimination here, you're a good 'un.
There's no discrim at Ox or Camb. Just ruthlessly meritocratic. Most of my pals might have a problem with Americanisation though: their cultural imperialism; their warmongering; how could anyone who voted Bush in ... twice ... be smart enough for Oxbridge; etc.
If you prefer the way things are handled in the US and 'old Europe' isn't you thing, don't come. If you do come, could you please respect our liberal traditions. Thanks.
Lol I like that. I remember on the web seeing the statistics of which states voted Democrat/Republican and then the average IQ of said state. Fair to say the results were....predictable, with the dumbo states consisting of a Bush majority and the clever states being marginally Democrat supporters.
EDIT: I found this but I'm sure the one I first looked at was the Bush/Kerry election. Still illustrates the point though... http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2004/t_iq-p1.php
I wasn't referring to all americans, just the US (that is to say, the state).
(i) The British Empire wasn't solely responsible for the slave trade, nor indeed its worst purveyor. It was a (dispicable) commercial enterprise run in Africa by Arab traders and in the Americas by settlers (that is to say, by americans!). Certainly, British commercial interests made huge profits from it, but it wasn't a government run enterprise (unlike say today's US commercial interests in the 'reconstruction' of Iraq and Afganistan. The slave trade was abolished first by the British Government, too late of course in the overall sense of the thing, but much earlier than the US itself. In fact, notwithstanding the US civil war, there was de facto slavery in the US into the 1960s.
(ii) The US has refused to pay its contribution to the UN.
(iii) I understand neo-fascism to be a political philosophy that exalts nation and race above the individual and that stands for a centralised autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. Most US government statements reek of jingoistic Goebbels-ism; the US government is centrealised and centralising; Guantanamo is an affront to the sanctity of the individual. Corporate supremacy in the US and the role of super-wealth in presidential and gubernational contests ensures the economic subjugation of the people. The fact that there is no ideological difference between Democrats and Republicans, and the fact that all presidents come from the same (socio-economic) class is testament to the success Big Business has in this project.
(iv) American universities are only "the best in the world" if you use metrics designed by Big Business and american universities to show just that. They concentrate on the sciences, which have commercial spin-offs (and which suits Nobel Laureate head counters like you); they concentrate on technological and enterprise. How do the 'great american universities' do in Literature, Classics, the Humanities? Not very well. Also, it might interest you to know that most US Nobel winners were not US born. I notice that Harvard and the US likes to claim Amartya Sen, for example, (a bit like the UK claims Irish playrights when it suits) but he was neither born nor educated there. India and Cambridge can take that credit. It's just another example of what I will call 'US appropriation' and I guess that's what I most dislike about the US.
(v) I have "heard of Rhodes scholarships". It's interesting that you should hold this up as another great American Appropriation: Cecil Rhodes was a slave-trading imperialist. No wonder he wanted his money to go to Americans coming to Oxford!
Actually, speaking of slave trading and US appropraition, americans like to see their civil war as the great cleansing. Nothing to do with victory for anti-slavery activism. Abe Lincoln was a slave owner (before and after).
(vi) US aggression in South America, Central America, Viet Nam, the Carribbean (invading grenada for ***** sake), Middle East, Afganistan. Support for Nazi scientists after WW2 (von Braun etc). Support for Fascist dictatorships around the world (Chile & Phillipines yesterday; Pakistan and Saudi today). Not to mention commercial exploitation everywhere the US gets its fumbling fat little hands in the till. These are stayte-sponsored activities; not the activities of commercial interests. And it's going on NOW.
(vii) Kyoto? Consumerism? No point; this would be way over your head.
(viii) I hope you're not coming over here to study history; we don't do Holywood studies, you know. And you have to read books, sometimes written in another language. Could you not do a 'module' in Canada and leave us 'aliens' in peace?
Before anyone says it: I know not all Americans voted for Bush; some voted for his cousin Kerry. I know some left their chads hanging by mistake and I know Dick Cheney didn't shoot that guy on purpose. I know not every American is stupid (I met one last week outside Balliol who saw immediately that the building was not 13th century). I know that Republicans are not evil and that they wouldn't knowingly elect an Austrian right-winger as governor.
I know the US put a man on the moon, and I am soooo grateful.
God bless!
(i) The British Empire wasn't solely responsible for the slave trade, nor indeed its worst purveyor. It was a (dispicable) commercial enterprise run in Africa by Arab traders and in the Americas by settlers (that is to say, by americans!). Certainly, British commercial interests made huge profits from it, but it wasn't a government run enterprise (unlike say today's US commercial interests in the 'reconstruction' of Iraq and Afganistan. The slave trade was abolished first by the British Government, too late of course in the overall sense of the thing, but much earlier than the US itself. In fact, notwithstanding the US civil war, there was de facto slavery in the US into the 1960s.
(ii) The US has refused to pay its contribution to the UN.
(iii) I understand neo-fascism to be a political philosophy that exalts nation and race above the individual and that stands for a centralised autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. Most US government statements reek of jingoistic Goebbels-ism; the US government is centrealised and centralising; Guantanamo is an affront to the sanctity of the individual. Corporate supremacy in the US and the role of super-wealth in presidential and gubernational contests ensures the economic subjugation of the people. The fact that there is no ideological difference between Democrats and Republicans, and the fact that all presidents come from the same (socio-economic) class is testament to the success Big Business has in this project.
(iv) American universities are only "the best in the world" if you use metrics designed by Big Business and american universities to show just that. They concentrate on the sciences, which have commercial spin-offs (and which suits Nobel Laureate head counters like you); they concentrate on technological and enterprise. How do the 'great american universities' do in Literature, Classics, the Humanities? Not very well. Also, it might interest you to know that most US Nobel winners were not US born. I notice that Harvard and the US likes to claim Amartya Sen, for example, (a bit like the UK claims Irish playrights when it suits) but he was neither born nor educated there. India and Cambridge can take that credit. It's just another example of what I will call 'US appropriation' and I guess that's what I most dislike about the US.
(v) I have "heard of Rhodes scholarships". It's interesting that you should hold this up as another great American Appropriation: Cecil Rhodes was a slave-trading imperialist. No wonder he wanted his money to go to Americans coming to Oxford!
Actually, speaking of slave trading and US appropraition, americans like to see their civil war as the great cleansing. Nothing to do with victory for anti-slavery activism. Abe Lincoln was a slave owner (before and after).
(vi) US aggression in South America, Central America, Viet Nam, the Carribbean (invading grenada for ***** sake), Middle East, Afganistan. Support for Nazi scientists after WW2 (von Braun etc). Support for Fascist dictatorships around the world (Chile & Phillipines yesterday; Pakistan and Saudi today). Not to mention commercial exploitation everywhere the US gets its fumbling fat little hands in the till. These are stayte-sponsored activities; not the activities of commercial interests. And it's going on NOW.
(vii) Kyoto? Consumerism? No point; this would be way over your head.
(viii) I hope you're not coming over here to study history; we don't do Holywood studies, you know. And you have to read books, sometimes written in another language. Could you not do a 'module' in Canada and leave us 'aliens' in peace?
Before anyone says it: I know not all Americans voted for Bush; some voted for his cousin Kerry. I know some left their chads hanging by mistake and I know Dick Cheney didn't shoot that guy on purpose. I know not every American is stupid (I met one last week outside Balliol who saw immediately that the building was not 13th century). I know that Republicans are not evil and that they wouldn't knowingly elect an Austrian right-winger as governor.
I know the US put a man on the moon, and I am soooo grateful.
God bless!
alright, you win. all americans are thick, their universities are *****, everything's their fault. and oxford only takes them because it needs the money.
not really neccessary, was it? do you know the person who started this thread?
for christ's sake, this person is obviously of the required academic standard, i don't see how having a rant about american foreign policy adds to this thread. i imagine there are (as a percentage of the population) just as many thickos in america as britain.
peliot
(viii) I hope you're not coming over here to study history; we don't do Holywood studies, you know. And you have to read books, sometimes written in another language. Could you not do a 'module' in Canada and leave us 'aliens' in peace?
not really neccessary, was it? do you know the person who started this thread?
for christ's sake, this person is obviously of the required academic standard, i don't see how having a rant about american foreign policy adds to this thread. i imagine there are (as a percentage of the population) just as many thickos in america as britain.
You can't blame individual Americans for the actions of their governments. I certainly wouldn't want to be held responsible for the actions of the British government today. Many of us are dismayed by what our government does in our names. Neither do I want to be blamed for 500 years of mis-doings by Britons of the past.
As Britons we could be blamed for:- grabbing half of Africa and all its wealth, colonising india and growing rich on the proceeds, taking land from many indigenous peoples of the world, participating in the slave trade, starting the industrial revolution and all the misery associated with monotonous low paid factory work and the resulting pollution, the opium trade, atrocities in Ireland ....... and so on
As Britons we could be blamed for:- grabbing half of Africa and all its wealth, colonising india and growing rich on the proceeds, taking land from many indigenous peoples of the world, participating in the slave trade, starting the industrial revolution and all the misery associated with monotonous low paid factory work and the resulting pollution, the opium trade, atrocities in Ireland ....... and so on
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