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* How good is LSE's reputation in the USA?

Reply 20

Perhaps that is true, but what i was just pointing out was that the american unis have much stronger branding, you can goto joe blogs on the street and say harvard and he will be like wow but say LSE he will be ???. I personally think that degrees from the likes of harvard, stanford, mit etc care far more impetus than those from the LSE.

Reply 21

pendragon

OP

13

drs1357

I would also say, you are mad to goto LSE over stanford/harvard! I've decided that I would actually like to goto america tbh, much better system than here. Plus the one thing that makes oxbridge great (tutorials) you don't get at the lse..

It is not a better system in the US, it is just a lot easier to do well because the standards are so low and you dont specialise to any real degree of depth in your major. The reason to go to the US, is because it is easier and their top schools are more internationally famous than LSE, not because you get a better quality of education - you do not, they get way less contact with tutors even compared with non-oxbridge UK uni's, tons of their classes are taught by postgrad student TA's.

Reply 22

Knogle

16

The reason to go to the US, is because it is easier and their top schools are more internationally famous than LSE, not because you get a better quality of education - you do not, they get way less contact with tutors even compared with non-oxbridge UK uni's, tons of their classes are taught by postgrad student TA's.

Wholeheartedly agree. I'm not saying that you should go to the US, but if you want to, then it should be for the above reasons. :smile:

Reply 23

drs1357

yes, but thing i like most about is that i can study all kinds of things from economics to ancient history, much more diverse degree. The breadth of degrees is good but i accept that i may not be able to study my subject with the same level of detail! Only having one option in first/second year sucks!

Also i am not convinced that it is easier

Reply 24

pendragon

OP

13

drs1357

yes, but thing i like most about is that i can study all kinds of things from economics to ancient history, much more diverse degree. The breadth of degrees is good but i accept that i may not be able to study my subject with the same level of detail! Only having one option in first/second year sucks!

Also i am not convinced that it is easier

You may like the breadth of their 'liberal arts' degrees, and it may be difficult for those who are not all-rounders to be forced to science if they are English majors or vice versa, but you are not going to convince me that that makes for a better system. You don't know what you want to study? My answer is grow up. As I have already said British higher education is not about learning facts from a diverse range of fields, it is about training your mind to an extremely high level in one or two related fields (it doesn't even matter what subject you do) so that you mind becomes like a sharp knife and you can quickly get to grips with any subject and dissect it at a very advanced analytical level.

American undergraduate courses in the arts are a joke. I have taken undergraduate credit courses at Harvard summer school. One of my exams for a class called ‘Western Civilisation’ was a multiple choice test – it was easier than a GCSE history exam, and merely tested my ability to remember historical facts, not to produce a high quality academic essay which any history undergraduate examination at a lesser UK university would require. I got marks for attendance too, and for contribution to class discussions lead by a teaching assistant. The level of depth in the lectures for the course was only slightly higher than A-level standard. The examinations where marked by the professor giving the class which I think is not as objective as university wide external examinations taken in British degrees.

Why do they prolong this child-like education for four years and only start to get serious at postgraduate level? My guess would be money. Top American universities are private money making institutions who have a vested interest in getting everyone to have a longer education. It takes much longer to get to a high level of study in the US as a result and far longer to train for almost any professional occupation in the American system. Its true the system is better for those from poor backgrounds who can get a free ride, but people whose parents can pay have to pay through the nose for their child to go to one of these colleges. I have a friend who got into Yale but their stingy parent wont pay for them to study out-of-state. Most Americans parents accept it as their duty to pay for their kids college which is a good thing, but they do end up paying a lot for a pretty crappy undergraduate education as a result of the colleges milking them for four years of low level teaching partly by Teaching Assistants while they faf around doing as many subjects as we do at GCSE to a standard not much in advance of A-level most of the time (at least in the arts and humanities).

It is postgrad where all the superior funds start to tell. I really do not rate American undergraduate education, I think it would be charitable to call it a joke.

Reply 25

drs1357

Well you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. We shall agree to disagree.

ps.. i still dont get your
'You don't know what you want to study? My answer is grow up.'

thats just me though

Reply 26

pendragon

OP

13

drs1357

ps.. i still dont get your
'You don't know what you want to study? My answer is grow up.'

thats just me though

Intellectual people tend to realise their main field of interest by 18, otherwise you end up as a Jack of all trades and a master of none!

Reply 27

pendragon

OP

13

drs1357

Well you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. We shall agree to disagree.

I am happy with that. But you should know that you are also entitled to present evidence in support of your opinion if you have any.

Reply 28

drs1357

many of the greatest intellectuals have been polymaths. I personally have not figured out my main field of interest, although I do know what I am not interested in. Perhaps I will lay out an arguement later, but right now im watching season 1 of the sopranos - and its quite captivating :smile:

'if you have any' how galling.

Reply 29

shady lane

16

pendragon

It is not a better system in the US, it is just a lot easier to do well because the standards are so low and you dont specialise to any real degree of depth in your major. The reason to go to the US, is because it is easier and their top schools are more internationally famous than LSE, not because you get a better quality of education - you do not, they get way less contact with tutors even compared with non-oxbridge UK uni's, tons of their classes are taught by postgrad student TA's.

If you are comparing Oxbridge to Harvard/Yale/Princeton type schools, this is completely false. Have you ever studied at any of the top US universities?

My advisor is a major expert on the politics of empire, and his book is a core reading THREE MSc's at LSE. I've been invited to his home three times. I had a lecture course with a major scholar on human rights, who sits on international tribunals for war criminals; she personally e-mailed me to say she enjoyed reading one of my essays. If this is not contact with top academics than frankly I don't know what is. I've only had 2 classes taught by graduate students; for one, the lecturer had to take a leave of absence, and the other was a program set up by the History department specifically to help PhD students in their teaching, and that is made very clear before you enroll.

I spent 6 months studying at Oxford and I felt that I had good contact with lecturers and what-not, but the grading was much easier, even though the work was more time-consuming. My GPA at Stanford is a 3.45. I was told by TWO of my Oxford tutors that if I had studied there I would easily be on track for a 1st class degree based on my work. Hmm...grade inflation?

I think the UK system is great because you get very intense in one subject, and there are benefits to both. But making uninformed statements about top US unis when clearly you haven't studied at one is not useful.

Reply 30

George Bush

2

Ladies and Gents,

I do agree, to a certain extent, that the aforementioned American universities are prestigious and offer great education. However, having studied in the US for about 10 years, attending extremely competitive schools, and living among those who can afford to drive a ferrari, I am now tired of this country. The so-called American Dream is difficult to achieve because there are so many invisible barriers in this society. Out of 300 graduates of my class this year, more than 35% of them are going to an Ivy. For example, 21 people were accepted at Harvard and 18 were waitlisted, like me. Although the number may seem astonishing when the likes of Yale and Harvard boast low admittance rate of 8~9%, I know that there are many flaws in the system. I can count with my two hands the number of people who were offered admission for academic achievements. The majority of those who will be scribing "Harvard Class of 2010" next to their names has been accepted for intagible and unfair reasons: athletics, legacies, and money. I am sorry to break your fantasy of the US, but this is what the country is all about. The top (the rich, the powerful) stay at the top. One of my friend was born into a family with great wealth and influence. His life has been set since the first day: attend the most prestigious private school on Long Island, move onto Phillips Academy, and finally end up at Princeton. Is he at least bright? I am afraid not.

I, on one hand, probably received offers of admission for various reasons. My ethnicity, previous work experience, athletic ability, etc. most certainly played a part during the evaluation period. Yes, I could move onto Stanford and graduate with a competitive GPA and boast the name for life - and probably send my kids there when they are of age. However, I know from experience that if I do end up at prestigious American institutions, I will run into those who will end up at even more prestigious grad schools and jobs - not necessarily for merits, but more for personal advantages that are hidden under their names.

I also do not like following other people's footsteps. I want to be highly unique. So, when I was offered admission at LSE, I ran out of my dorm and started screaming. My classmates and faculty - though surprised at first - rose to their feet and clapped incessantly. They and I all knew that I was the one. I was among the few who have graduated from my school to go to LSE. I personally take lots of pride from that, and I wasn't excited at all about Stanford and Columbia. I was rather indifferent - because I knew I have paved a fresh path in front of me that no one else can join.

So, although I do appreciate your inputs and suggestions, please mind that I strongly believe I have made the best decision. I have applied early to Stanford through their early action program, so evidently it was my first choice at one point. But now, as I plan the years to come, I am glad I chose to apply to LSE.

Reply 31

shady lane

16

BTW George Bush I actually don't care where you go. I was replying to Pendragon who said that US universities are really bad and crappy, which is blatantly not true when you compare equivalent universities between the US and the UK.

I do think you'll miss out on the American undergraduate experience, which is one of the most unique in the world and also very fun! But do what you want to do, I honestly don't care.

Stanford people are very outgoing and don't take themselves too seriously, and it seems like you do, so you wouldn't fit in anyway!

Reply 32

drs1357

i love stanford :smile:

but im gonna try and go somewhere closer to boston (i have family there)

Reply 33

George Bush

2

Don't worry Shady Lane, I wasn't replying to you anyway.

Reply 34

Knogle

16

shandy_lane, get off your high horse. Each person is entitled to his/her own opinion, as are you. But this isn't the place for ad hominem attacks.

Reply 35

ryan2288

^^^ I would say the same for pendragon.

Reply 36

shady lane

16

Knogle

shandy_lane, get off your high horse. Each person is entitled to his/her own opinion, as are you. But this isn't the place for ad hominem attacks.

assuming you think taking oneself too seriously is an insult. some people think that's a compliment. say, people that go to harvard :smile:

Reply 37

pendragon

OP

13

shady lane

If you are comparing Oxbridge to Harvard/Yale/Princeton type schools, this is completely false. Have you ever studied at any of the top US universities?

My advisor is a major expert on the politics of empire, and his book is a core reading THREE MSc's at LSE. I've been invited to his home three times. I had a lecture course with a major scholar on human rights, who sits on international tribunals for war criminals; she personally e-mailed me to say she enjoyed reading one of my essays. If this is not contact with top academics than frankly I don't know what is. I've only had 2 classes taught by graduate students; for one, the lecturer had to take a leave of absence, and the other was a program set up by the History department specifically to help PhD students in their teaching, and that is made very clear before you enroll.

I spent 6 months studying at Oxford and I felt that I had good contact with lecturers and what-not, but the grading was much easier, even though the work was more time-consuming. My GPA at Stanford is a 3.45. I was told by TWO of my Oxford tutors that if I had studied there I would easily be on track for a 1st class degree based on my work. Hmm...grade inflation?

I think the UK system is great because you get very intense in one subject, and there are benefits to both. But making uninformed statements about top US unis when clearly you haven't studied at one is not useful.

I did my BA(Hons) at Oxford and have spent four months studying at Harvard Summer School (two summers) taking 8 undergraduate credits and 8 graduate credits. So I have had experience of studying at a top US institution and am not speaking out of ignorance, I also have friends who have studied in both systems. You should have postponed the insulting remarks until you heard my answer to your initial question, obviously making unfounded assertions before conducting research is not discouraged at Stanford.

As for grade inflation, Harvard is well known within the US for this. The idea that there are too many Oxford 1st’s awarded on the other hand is completely untrue, and I can find statistical evidence if you require it that only a minority of students are ever awarded 1sts; incidentally a level of achievement which simply cannot be measured in the US system of GPA’s. The GPA measures consistent hard work over time, which you may regard as a fair and good assessment of academic achievement. Oxford final exams on the other hand measure two years of preparation in a single short space of time near the end of one’s degree and how that can be crystallised into a truly original and incredibly high quality response to the questions. It is nice to have complements like you received from Oxford tutors, but I have had similar complements from at least one tutor and did not receive a 1st. Unless you actually receive a 1st at Oxbridge, which you could now only do if you were accepted for a second undergraduate degree that would of course be easier, they remain just complements.

At no point did I dispute the academic research output of top American universities, or indeed the quality of graduate training, my critique referred merely to the quality and ethos of undergraduate education at places like Harvard. And in terms of contact time with professors I remain correct in my assertions that you get far more at Oxbridge. You received emails from your professor and you regard that as contact time? I have had at least one hour a week of tutorials throughout my degree at Oxford, with the tutor, one other student and myself. I have had two sets of tutorials for an hour in a week with just the professor and myself. If you are claiming I could have got anything like that at Harvard as an undergraduate you are clearly out of your depth on the subject. I have some questions for you too. You have been invited to your professors house on more than one occasion, was this invitation social or in order to go through your work? Your invitations to a professor’s house and the email you received which constitute the contact time you have had, are these extended to all students or merely to the most talented and promising (as recognised by Oxford tutors as well) such as yourself? Because all Oxford students studying arts degrees get as much personal interaction within the tutorial system – even the least promising and most lazy. It is not a boon, but is rather the standard experience of the Oxbridge system for arts students to face critique of their work from a leading professor in the field and then debate the central issues of the topic with them for one hour a week – usually with one other student involved in the discussion. You really think that undergraduate contact time at Harvard is comparable?

Reply 38

Johan C

13

Very interesting debate. Still don't know what to think about US Higher Education though... since as usual, everyone disagrees :p:

I'm looking forward to meeting you in A&F GB - I like original people who blaze their own trail, and I very much respect the fact that you didn't comfortably settle for a life of easy academic ahievement.

Reply 39

Knogle

16

Johan C

Very interesting debate. Still don't know what to think about US Higher Education though... since as usual, everyone disagrees :p:

I'm looking forward to meeting you in A&F GB - I like original people who blaze their own trail, and I very much respect the fact that you didn't comfortably settle for a life of easy academic ahievement.

Yes, that does deserve some commending. :cool:

* How good is LSE's reputation in the USA?

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