why do Oxbridge colleges share the same name? Watch

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koalapiyo
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this is a mystery that has been buggin' my brains....

why are there colleges in Oxbridge with the same name?

presumably, since oxford is older, cambridge wanted to "copy"? or are these merely co-incidences? or are there really some sort of relation/link between the namesakes in each institution?
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hildabeast
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(Original post by koalapiyo)
this is a mystery that has been buggin' my brains....

why are there colleges in Oxbridge with the same name?

presumably, since oxford is older, cambridge wanted to "copy"? or are these merely co-incidences? or are there really some sort of relation/link between the namesakes in each institution?
Each name has a different origin, and as all the colleges were established at different times no-one 'copied' anyone else. For example, St John's Oxford is named after John the Baptist whilst St John's Cambridge is named after John the Evangelist. Notice the difference between St CathArine's Cambridge and St CathErine's Oxford (named after different people). Also Queen's Oxford is named after one queen, whereas Queens' Cambridge is named after more than one (hence the subtle apostrophe difference).
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house badger
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Yeah also not all the colleges were founded when the University was. St Catz/Sommerville in Oxford are quite recent whereas Univ, Baliol, Trinity are really really old.

For example Christ Church Oxford and Trinity College Cambridge were both founded together by Henry VIII and are brother/sister colleges.
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Jamie
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(Original post by hildabeast)
Each name has a different origin, and as all the colleges were established at different times no-one 'copied' anyone else. For example, St John's Oxford is named after John the Baptist whilst St John's Cambridge is named after John the Evangelist. Notice the difference between St CathArine's Cambridge and St CathErine's Oxford (named after different people). Also Queen's Oxford is named after one queen, whereas Queens' Cambridge is named after more than one (hence the subtle apostrophe difference).
ahh hildabeast, you should have gone one further (excellent description so far!) and mention the magdalen vs magdalene (mag-da-lin (oxford)vs maw-da-lin (cambridge))
Some are from more similar lines. Corpus Christi Cambridge and oxford both are religious names, however cambridge corpus was founded by a religious order, and a town guild (the first college in britain/the world to be founded by townspeople rather than royalty or clergy!)
There's also a town called corpus christi in texas don't ya know
J
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hildabeast
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(Original post by foolfarian)
ahh hildabeast, you should have gone one further (excellent description so far!) and mention the magdalen vs magdalene (mag-da-lin (oxford)vs maw-da-lin (cambridge))
As far as I am aware they are both pronounced 'maudlin'. :confused:
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teamvillage
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(Original post by hildabeast)
Notice the difference between St CathArine's Cambridge and St CathErine's Oxford (named after different people).
Not totally true. The St Catherines Society (which Catz Oxford was formed from) changed its spelling early last century to avoid confusion with the Cambridge College!
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OldMan
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(Original post by hildabeast)
Notice the difference between St CathArine's Cambridge and St CathErine's Oxford (named after different people).

Actually, despite the different spellings they are both dedicated to St Catharine of Alexandria, as you can tell by the Catherine wheels in their coats of arms.
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hildabeast
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Hmmmm, I always thought Catz Oxford was named ofter St Cathereine of Sienna. I stand corrected.
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Helenia
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(Original post by koalapiyo)
this is a mystery that has been buggin' my brains....

why are there colleges in Oxbridge with the same name?

presumably, since oxford is older, cambridge wanted to "copy"? or are these merely co-incidences? or are there really some sort of relation/link between the namesakes in each institution?
Oxford is older in that some of the first colleges founded there are older than the oldest Cambridge ones (our oldest surviving one is Peterhouse, founded 1296, don't know about Oxford). At the time I don't think there was any great desire to "copy." Most of the colleges that share names have religious connotations (St. John's - regardless of which John, Jesus, Trinity, Corpus etc) as they were originally religious institutions, and there are only a certain number of religious names that are around, so presumably both wanted to grab them! We don't have a University college, which is Oxford's oldest (I think?), so I think most of the similarities are due to the religious aspect rather than the desire to copy.
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hildabeast
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(Original post by Helenia)
Oxford is older in that some of the first colleges founded there are older than the oldest Cambridge ones (our oldest surviving one is Peterhouse, founded 1296, don't know about Oxford). At the time I don't think there was any great desire to "copy." Most of the colleges that share names have religious connotations (St. John's - regardless of which John, Jesus, Trinity, Corpus etc) as they were originally religious institutions, and there are only a certain number of religious names that are around, so presumably both wanted to grab them! We don't have a University college, which is Oxford's oldest (I think?), so I think most of the similarities are due to the religious aspect rather than the desire to copy.
Ah, well now your being controversial!!! There are three Oxford colleges which claim to be the oldest (all founded 1260s); Univ, Merton and Balliol. I heard something like Univ has the earliest charter, Balliol had the first students, and Merton had the first college buildings. But yes, I think you're right in saying that univ has the strongest claim. The university itself traces back to the 11th century.
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Tek
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(Original post by Helenia)
Oxford is older in that some of the first colleges founded there are older than the oldest Cambridge ones (our oldest surviving one is Peterhouse, founded 1296, don't know about Oxford). At the time I don't think there was any great desire to "copy." Most of the colleges that share names have religious connotations (St. John's - regardless of which John, Jesus, Trinity, Corpus etc) as they were originally religious institutions, and there are only a certain number of religious names that are around, so presumably both wanted to grab them! We don't have a University college, which is Oxford's oldest (I think?), so I think most of the similarities are due to the religious aspect rather than the desire to copy.
Peterhouse was founded in 1284.
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Fluffy
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(Original post by foolfarian)
and mention the magdalen vs magdalene (mag-da-lin (oxford)vs maw-da-lin (cambridge))

It's defo Maw-del-in in Oxford. No 'da'.
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hornblower
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(Original post by Fluffy)
It's defo Maw-del-in in Oxford. No 'da'.
Actually, the Oxford Magdalen and Cambridge Magdalene are both pronounced 'maudlin'.
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Fluffy
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really? Last time I was at Darwin, we went on the open top bus tour to kill time before dinner - they said Mag-da-lan on that.....

Outside of that,

God damn Oxford and their lies!!!!

And from what Foolfarian says, God damn Cambridge and their lies!!!!
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Fluffy
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From the Magdelene College student pages:

Magdelene, is currently pronounced ‘Maudlin’ by all undergraduates in Cambridge. However, this appears to have been a recent change (or re-adoption), as undergraduates a decade ago pronounced it as we conventionally pronounce Mary Magdelen (evidenced not only by testimony but on the BBC program ‘Have I Got News for You’).

Those attending Magdelen college, Oxford, have apparently always pronounced it ‘Maudlin’.
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Helenia
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(Original post by Tek)
Peterhouse was founded in 1284.
Well sorry oh Master of all things Peterhouse. Couldn't be arsed to look it up; for some reason that date stuck in my head :confused: Turns out I was wrong. Anyway, it's still the oldest, and Clare is second. Neither of these are copies of Oxford ones.
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Alaric
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(Original post by Helenia)
Anyway, it's still the oldest, and Clare is second. Neither of these are copies of Oxford ones.
Having only heard and read the benefaction history at half-way hall a couple of weeks ago, that's not strictly correct. Clare was originally founded in 1326 with the name University Hall, which would be a copy of the Oxford college's name albeit a very generic one. Then in 1338 when Lady Clare endowed the college further it was renamed to Clare Hall, before eventually being renamed Clare College in 1856.

So yeah, we weren't very original in the first place, but we are now at least!

Alaric.
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Jamie
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(Original post by Alaric)
Having only heard and read the benefaction history at half-way hall a couple of weeks ago, that's not strictly correct. Clare was originally founded in 1326 with the name University Hall, which would be a copy of the Oxford college's name albeit a very generic one. Then in 1338 when Lady Clare endowed the college further it was renamed to Clare Hall, before eventually being renamed Clare College in 1856.

So yeah, we weren't very original in the first place, but we are now at least!

Alaric.
ok, is there actually a place called Clare hall now? I keep seeing people with the name
J
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Alaric
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(Original post by foolfarian)
ok, is there actually a place called Clare hall now? I keep seeing people with the name
J
Yeah, it's somewhere round the back of Robinson, probably because Clare still owned that land after selling the University the land for the library and Robinson. Clare founded it in 1966 and it achieved independent status in 1984. Its crest features the chevrons and droplets also found on the Clare crest. I don't know if their gown also features the three black velvet chevrons we have on ours.

Alaric.
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Helenia
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(Original post by foolfarian)
ok, is there actually a place called Clare hall now? I keep seeing people with the name
J
Yes, it's a grad college formed by Clare in the 60s or something. Dunno where it is, or anything about it though.

Apparently the three red chevrons we have in our crest represent Lady Clare's 3 husbands who died in mysterious circumstances
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