The Student Room Group

Double First/Triple Starred first

Scroll to see replies

Reply 20
JohnStuartMill
I can only think of two people who have done that - Orlando Figes and Quentin Skinner.


And Alain de Botton IIRC. It was either history or english; notably not philosophy.

visesh
Duncan, have you finished your exams by any chance?


Next best thing. I've degraded due to 'family issues'. You can only spend so long indulging in cabin fever until the rabbit working the controls says 'maybe you should offer your... er... wisdom to future generations of philosophers and sidneyites on the TSR'.
Reply 21
Epicurus
Yes JsMill your thinking is identical to that of the wikipedia article which also states that Neal Ascherson was the only person to get a triple starred first. Although from this forum, it is evident that getting a triple starred first is not possible.


Well, if Natsci Part III does count then the aforementioned physicist would have got one (though I suspect from what's been said, it's just merit/pass/fail). I can find other websites claiming that Ascherson got a triple-first, but I can't see anything to believe that it's necessarily anything other than a journalist's self-promotion. The would is, afterall, creeping with people inventing degrees and grades out of thin air. The mention in the wikipedia article on degree classification is taken from the entry on Ascherson which is simply lifted from the spartacus.schoolnet entry. Similarly Maurice Zinkin does reference a source, but that source is just an obituary in the Telegraph which fails to go into details (what criterion are they using? What subject was this 'triple-starred-first in?' etc). Rachel Orr appears to feature no where other than this article, according to google. People have tried to remove the section from the article, only to have it reverted without comment by anonymous people from the cam domain. (I'm not making any accusations, but it is worth noting that the only Rachel Orr I can find is a fresher at Girton).

Possibly one of the public information places at Cambridge would be willing to answer questions. I might get bored enough to e-mail King's (for Ascherson) and Jesus (for Zinkin) to find out.

Update - Zinkin did get a triple first depending on your definition. He got a 1st in part I of history (back when it was still one year I suspect), a 1st in part II of law which he transferred to and then a 1st in his LL.B exam. This is one of those technicalities which is hard to resolve without any artifical criterion - on the one hand, he did get a 1st in all three exams, on the other hand it is not entirely clear that the LLB should be counted as fully 'part' of the others. If it can/is, then it would seem to make sense that there would be many more 'triple-firsts' out there (I should imagine a lot of people that got double firsts in law would go on to get another in their LLB. I don't know, but I'd think it probable).

The alumni pdf with the Zinkin obituary from Jesus (I love google):

http://www.jesus.cam.ac.uk/alumni/publications/Annual%20Report%202002.pdf
Reply 22
To quote Dr Frank King "Starred first is simply a way to attract people to do lame subjects"... not my words. Ask the man himself if you wish. He's the guy in charge of all clocks in the university... so he says. The man is a legend though... at least to us uber geeks (I'm not that uber... but I'd like to think I'm a geek... being compsci and all...)
Reply 23
Thanks Viv. :wink:

Camford
To quote Dr Frank King "Starred first is simply a way to attract people to do lame subjects"... not my words. Ask the man himself if you wish. He's the guy in charge of all clocks in the university... so he says. The man is a legend though... at least to us uber geeks (I'm not that uber... but I'd like to think I'm a geek... being compsci and all...)


I dunno. While all the people we were talking about above getting double firsts or double starred firsts and so on seem to have been humanities students, Jonathan suggested (and I can see the logic behind it) that it is technically easier to get a first or a starred first in a maths of science subject. I'm not saying that you don't have to work as hard, or even hard for it, but it's more quantifiable. To quote; "If you get all the questions right they can't not give you a starred first". The humanities criteria for 1sts are considerably more vague: "Work which, for its level, is excellent both in its range and command of the material, and in the detail of its argument. A first-class answer always engages closely with the question set, even if it approaches it from an unexpected angle." Whether or not they are in fact easier to obtain I couldn't really say.
Reply 24
you do realise I wasn't being serious, don't you?
Reply 25
Camford
you do realise I wasn't being serious, don't you?


Well... yes and no.
Reply 26
UPDATE: Ascherson

From King's College Office (H Perrot); "According to the King's College Register, Neal Ascherson gained a First in Part I and Part II History, in 1954 and 1955 respectively."

So no other tripos, no part III, no MPhil... what we have here folks is a double first. Still very impressive, but nothing outlandishly rare. He'll have got a 1st for Ia, Ib and II and declared it a triple first when writing one of the article that mentions it at the bottom. This is picked up by spartacus, then passes to wikipedia, then to all the little answers.com that steal from wikipedia. And then it becomes gospel truth. The reality however, is that in fact he got a double first. While you could make a case for calling a first in all three years a 'triple first' (will less validity in history which doesn't even have proper 1a exams), this would mean that roughly half of people who got double-firsts got 'triple firsts' (as a good number who got a first in two years probably got a first in all three).

So verdict:

Zinkin: Maybe a triple first, depending on your definition. Arguably not as it wasn't a continuous tripos (though by that reckoning we essentially rule out the possibility of triple firsts a priori).

Ascherson: Not a triple first. An 'ordinary, everyday' double first. The giveaway that it was fishy, aside from the claim itself, was the remark that went with it that he 'received' a triple-first. You don't 'receive' double firsts, they're unofficial. You might 'achieve' a double first, or attain 'double first class honours', but you aren't ever going to 'receive' them (disclaimer: unless I am mistaken).

Orr: No record of her existence that I can find, other than as a first year at Girton. The update was made by an anonymous cambridge address without comment. I'm putting money on it that this is just vandalism by someone wanthing a cheap laugh at the free encyclopedia's expense. I could be wrong, but for the record if I'm right that's pretty pathetic.
This has been pretty well done to death, but just to clear up the sciences thing: you are given grades for your fourth year (at least, you definitely are in biochem and I think you are in chemistry - haven't heard about the others but I would imagine they're the same). So it is possible to get a triple first in NatSci and I'm sure there are a few people who have done it (there are few people I know in my year who I would bet good money will complete the set this year).

However, I'm pretty certain they don't give starred firsts in NST - I've not ever seen any, anyway. So a triple starred first is exceedingly unlikely!

(But if anyone does get a triple starred first they might like to consider all that time they could have spent partying and enjoying life and still got a first or a good 2.i, either of which will make them as employable - if not possibly more so, what with all the social interaction and life experience - than multiple stars next to the I!)
Reply 28
hmm, what is a starred first???
Reply 29
What do you think?
Reply 30
It's when they stick a gold star and a 'Well Done' stamp at the top of your exam paper :wink:
popop12345
hmm, what is a starred first???

You get a first if you get over 70% (or thereabouts, usually); a starred first is an extra-good first and your name appears under the 'First' category on the Senate House boards with an asterisk next to it (if I remember rightly). I think you usually get a starred first if you get over 80%, though I'm not sure how rigid this is.
Reply 32
My dentist's son got a double first from Cambridge and a Cambridge Blue (what's that?) and is now a pennyless rabi (sp?) in Jerusalem.

His other son is a professional poker player.
Epicurus
Do any of you know anyone that's got such a degree?
How can you get yourself in a position to be studying for 2 degrees? Is it extremely rare for people to do 2 degrees simultaneously or for any anyone to get a triple starred first? Is anyone on course for a trippled starred first (be honest)?

I have nothing else to do at the moment other then ask stupid questions.

yeh, one of my friends was top of classics every year from 2001-2004 with a starred first. another was top of geography with starred first from 2000-2003.
spin
My dentist's son got a double first from Cambridge and a Cambridge Blue (what's that?) and is now a pennyless rabi (sp?) in Jerusalem.

His other son is a professional poker player.


A Blue is an award for sporting achievements - generally, players in Varsity matches get them. Take a look here for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_blue
Reply 35
Thmbnail bios of C.S. Lewis almost invariably note that he gained a Triple First at Oxford. I am not absolutely certain, but it is consistent with my recollection, that Abba Eban, the Israeli diplomat & political leader, took a triple-first degree at Cambridge in 1933.

In 1965, Durk Pearson graduated from MIT with enough first-class credits to qualify for three degrees contemporaneously. It has been reported that all incoming freshmen at MIT have their IQs measured, but they couldn't measure Pearson’s score. The upper limit to which a score can be extrapolated is 220. Pearson’s could be 300—they had no idea, for MIT had never seen an intelligence as celestial as his.

CHAM Tat Jen graduated from the University of Cambridge in 1993 with triple first-class honours in a BA degree in Engineering.

Tom Shirley “was awarded triple first class honours for [a] BA (hons) degree (University of Cambridge).”

Martin Reeves holds a triple first-class master's degree from Cambridge.

Matthew Ellman obtained his B.A. Hon’s (Triple First) at St John’s College.

Anita King is a recent doctoral student who apparently would have the assemblage of intellectual gifts for obtaining a mighty Triple. Please see...
http://plus.maths.org/issue41/interview/index.html
Reply 36
The old version of double firsts/starred firsts is different as it was based on the old system of degrees. I'm not completely sure but I believe you would spend a few years at university and then either take examinations in Classics (Grammar?), Mathematics or something else (?). You could then take exams in the other two, meaning that in the end you could get a triple starred first. This is all from a very vague recollection of reading about it in a book on Gladstone, so it's probably not completely accurate.

Nowadays getting a double first or starred first simply refers to getting those grades in successive parts of the Tripos as other people have said. I suppose a triple could be possible in a degree like Natural Science, where there is a Part IA, Part IB and a Part II, as you could get a first/starred first in all three and call it a triple...
Reply 37
tony_ron
There's a guy still studying in Cambridge who achieved a Doubled Starred First (1:1**) in Geography in his first or second year; thought that was pretty amazing. AND he still has a more active social life than me! :frown:


Is this the sickhead who got 99% in a paper?
Reply 38
tony_ron
There's a guy still studying in Cambridge who achieved a Doubled Starred First (1:1**) in Geography in his first or second year; thought that was pretty amazing. AND he still has a more active social life than me! :frown:


Haha, yeah I know who that is. I'm not quite sure how he manages it, but there you go, fair play to him.
Reply 39
Epicurus
Is this the sickhead who got 99% in a paper?


I doubt it, the way the papers are marked means it is either 98% or 100%. Having said that, it is very much possible to get 100%.