Gender equality

Well you can't because you like to reject the ability to hold any common sense.

But common sense would tell you that more countries deny women rights than they do men, that is a fact and basic way to quantify oppression just as it could with gay oppression. Not to mention the basic acknowledgement of reality needed to observe how the influence of sexist/homophobic religious values are still inherent in many societies.

I could argue not being allowed to serve is just an example of more sexism.

By women?

That not exclusively sexist.

No but most people would be able to figure out not having the right to vote beats paying more car insurance.

By your logic it is impossible to prove any discrimination because people may disagree on the word. It's frankly one of the most idiotic thinks I've ever heard.

Totally because no sexist attitudes still exist in the west.

So I take it that you can't prove women face more discrimination than men?

Thought so.

Think twice before you speak.

No. I'm using logic. Read up on what objectivity means in a philosophical context. Your view that women face more discrimination than men is not objective.

Please give me data of all types of discrimination that every single human being on this planet has faced. And can you please quantify each type of discrimination? What number would you give for not being able to vote? What number would you give for being sent off to war to die?

You missed the point. The point is our views of what discrimination is worse than the other is subjective. Not objective. Hence you cannot objectively claim that women face more discrimination than men.

Men and women are almost equal in legal terms in the West.

As far as other forms of sexism is concerned, there's no proof that women face more discrimination than men. Hence feminism is flawed in focusing mainly on women based on the unproven assertion that women face more discrimination than men.

Hint: You can't. Because you are not omniscient (you cannot know the discrimination that every single human being goes through). And you cannot give an objective quantification of each type of discrimination.

.

I'm tired atm. So i'll reply tomorrow.

But can you also please tell me why you think women are more discriminated against in the West than men?

Your reply will just more fruitless denial that anyone can figure out who faces more discrimination.

I've never made that claim, can you please tell me why you can't read?

Violence against women is a man's issue! This TED talk has changed the views of many when it comes to gender equality:
http://https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCsQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKTvSfeCRxe8&ei=uSbOUdjVNImsPP2hgNAD&usg=AFQjCNE9_3s8FmtmAawBmKYNyrvKQH_Ynw


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Once again, I'll ask:

Give me data of all the discrimination that every single human being on this planet goes through. Quantify each type of discrimination. Then show us which gender is discriminated against more than the other.

Hint: You can't. Because you are not omniscient (you cannot know the discrimination that every single human being goes through). And you cannot give an objective quantification of each type of discrimination.

If you cannot give an objective quantification of discrimination then on what basis do you say that feminism isn't needed in the west? You yourself stated that you cannot know the discrimination every human goes through, so how can you prove that women are not discriminated against any more?

It also amuses me how every one of these threads seem to turn into a pissing contest over who has it worst. How about - feminism is needed, MRA's are needed and egalitarianism is needed. All 3 groups have members who are helping to improve rights, all this criticism and arguing just make things worse.

I didn't make any claim that women aren't discriminated against anymore. My point is that if we don't know which sex faces more discrimination than the other, then the sensible approach should be gender egalitarianism, whereby men and women work together to equally address men and women's issues.

The problem with feminism is that it includes many illogical theories and sexist claims that are not helping the West get to gender equality. Additionally, it contains many misandrists who have campaigned against men's rights. MRA is merely a means to stop men getting ****ed over by feminists.

I would prefer gender egalitarianism where men and women unify to improve the lives of both sexes.

However, I don't mind the existence of feminism in third world countries where some of women's rights (or lack of) are quite pitiful.

The United Nations Population Fund estimates that 5,000 women and girls a year are murdered worldwide in honor killings. That’s more than 13 per day. Other groups believe that the number could be as high as 20,000 honor killings per year, which would be the equivalent of 54 women killed every day.

More than three women per day were killed by a husband or boyfriend in 2005, according to Bureau of Justice Statistics figures.

• Afghanistan: The average Afghan girl will live to only 45 – one year less than an Afghan male. After three decades of war and religion-based repression, an overwhelming number of women are illiterate. More than half of all brides are under 16, and one woman dies in childbirth every half hour. Domestic violence is so common that 87 per cent of women admit to experiencing it. But more than one million widows are on the streets, often forced into prostitution. Afghanistan is the only country in which the female suicide rate is higher than that of males.

• Democratic Republic of Congo: In the eastern DRC, a war that claimed more than 3 million lives has ignited again, with women on the front line. Rapes are so brutal and systematic that UN investigators have called them unprecedented. Many victims die; others are infected with HIV and left to look after children alone. Foraging for food and water exposes women to yet more violence. Without money, transport or connections, they have no way of escape.

• Iraq: The U.S.-led invasion to "liberate" Iraq from Saddam Hussein has imprisoned women in an inferno of sectarian violence that targets women and girls. The literacy rate, once the highest in the Arab world, is now among the lowest as families fear risking kidnapping and rape by sending girls to school. Women who once went out to work stay home. Meanwhile, more than 1 million women have been displaced from their homes, and millions more are unable to earn enough to eat.

• Nepal: Early marriage and childbirth exhaust the country's malnourished women, and one in 24 will die in pregnancy or childbirth. Daughters who aren't married off may be sold to traffickers before they reach their teens. Widows face extreme abuse and discrimination if they're labelled bokshi, meaning witches. A low-level civil war between government and Maoist rebels has forced rural women into guerrilla groups.

• Sudan: While Sudanese women have made strides under reformed laws, the plight of those in Darfur, in western Sudan, has worsened. Abduction, rape or forced displacement have destroyed more than 1 million women's lives since 2003. The janjaweed militias have used systematic rape as a demographic weapon, but access to justice is almost impossible for the female victims of violence.

• Other countries in which women's lives are significantly worse than men's include Guatemala, where an impoverished female underclass faces domestic violence, rape and the second-highest rate of HIV/AIDS after sub-Saharan Africa. An epidemic of gruesome unsolved murders has left hundreds of women dead, some of their bodies left with hate messages.

In Mali, one of the world's poorest countries, few women escape the torture of genital mutilation, many are forced into early marriages, and one in 10 dies in pregnancy or childbirth.

In the tribal border areas of Pakistan, women are gang-raped as punishment for men's crimes. But honour killing is more widespread, and a renewed wave of religious extremism is targeting female politicians, human rights workers and lawyers.

In oil-rich Saudi Arabia, women are treated as lifelong dependents, under the guardianship of a male relative. Deprived of the right to drive a car or mix with men publicly, they are confined to strictly segregated lives on pain of severe punishment.

In the Somali capital, Mogadishu, a vicious civil war has put women, who were the traditional mainstay of the family, under attack. In a society that has broken down, women are exposed daily to rape, dangerously poor health care for pregnancy, and attack by armed gangs.

... common sense would tell you that more countries deny women rights than they do men, that is a fact and basic way to quantify oppression just as it could with gay oppression.

Any one can prove that with ease, it saddens me you think it needs proving. What's next? Would you like me to show you gay people receive more discrimination than straight people? The sky is blue and the grass is green?

Why does it still happen even though illegal? Where's your outrage at it not being illegal in other places.

Why aren't women allowed to drive in saudi arabia?

Why aren't women allowed to vote in some places?

Why are women forced to cover up in some places?

Why must women face criminal charges for not wearing the hajab in some places?

Why do women get told they deserved or are responsible to be raped in India and many other places?

Why do women get acid attacks thrown in India?

Why does approximately 25% of the world's population lives in countries with highly restrictive abortion laws?

Why is rape still legal in marriage in some places?

The United Nations Population Fund estimates that 5,000 women and girls a year are murdered worldwide in honor killings. That’s more than 13 per day. Other groups believe that the number could be as high as 20,000 honor killings per year, which would be the equivalent of 54 women killed every day.

More than three women per day were killed by a husband or boyfriend in 2005, according to Bureau of Justice Statistics figures.

• Afghanistan: The average Afghan girl will live to only 45 – one year less than an Afghan male. After three decades of war and religion-based repression, an overwhelming number of women are illiterate. More than half of all brides are under 16, and one woman dies in childbirth every half hour. Domestic violence is so common that 87 per cent of women admit to experiencing it. But more than one million widows are on the streets, often forced into prostitution. Afghanistan is the only country in which the female suicide rate is higher than that of males.

• Democratic Republic of Congo: In the eastern DRC, a war that claimed more than 3 million lives has ignited again, with women on the front line. Rapes are so brutal and systematic that UN investigators have called them unprecedented. Many victims die; others are infected with HIV and left to look after children alone. Foraging for food and water exposes women to yet more violence. Without money, transport or connections, they have no way of escape.

• Iraq: The U.S.-led invasion to "liberate" Iraq from Saddam Hussein has imprisoned women in an inferno of sectarian violence that targets women and girls. The literacy rate, once the highest in the Arab world, is now among the lowest as families fear risking kidnapping and rape by sending girls to school. Women who once went out to work stay home. Meanwhile, more than 1 million women have been displaced from their homes, and millions more are unable to earn enough to eat.

• Nepal: Early marriage and childbirth exhaust the country's malnourished women, and one in 24 will die in pregnancy or childbirth. Daughters who aren't married off may be sold to traffickers before they reach their teens. Widows face extreme abuse and discrimination if they're labelled bokshi, meaning witches. A low-level civil war between government and Maoist rebels has forced rural women into guerrilla groups.

• Sudan: While Sudanese women have made strides under reformed laws, the plight of those in Darfur, in western Sudan, has worsened. Abduction, rape or forced displacement have destroyed more than 1 million women's lives since 2003. The janjaweed militias have used systematic rape as a demographic weapon, but access to justice is almost impossible for the female victims of violence.

• Other countries in which women's lives are significantly worse than men's include Guatemala, where an impoverished female underclass faces domestic violence, rape and the second-highest rate of HIV/AIDS after sub-Saharan Africa. An epidemic of gruesome unsolved murders has left hundreds of women dead, some of their bodies left with hate messages.

In Mali, one of the world's poorest countries, few women escape the torture of genital mutilation, many are forced into early marriages, and one in 10 dies in pregnancy or childbirth.

In the tribal border areas of Pakistan, women are gang-raped as punishment for men's crimes. But honour killing is more widespread, and a renewed wave of religious extremism is targeting female politicians, human rights workers and lawyers.

In oil-rich Saudi Arabia, women are treated as lifelong dependents, under the guardianship of a male relative. Deprived of the right to drive a car or mix with men publicly, they are confined to strictly segregated lives on pain of severe punishment.

In the Somali capital, Mogadishu, a vicious civil war has put women, who were the traditional mainstay of the family, under attack. In a society that has broken down, women are exposed daily to rape, dangerously poor health care for pregnancy, and attack by armed gangs.

You can't prove one gender is discriminated against more than the other.

Why?

Because you can't quantify oppression/discrimination absolutely.

Violence against women is a man's issue!

The fact that women are victims of violence is bad but it doesn't mean that the people committing the violence are men.

I don't see why not. Equality under the law is an absolute. Though it has grey areas in interpretation and application, the letter of the law is an absolute matter.

In no western country that I'm aware of are women discriminated against by the letter of the law.

In several western countries, such as USA, UK, Germany, Norway, there are laws discriminating against men.

I think that is an absolute measure of sexual discrimination.

The issue of the law not being applied equally, such as women receiving lighter sentences in court or almost always men being arrested for reciprocal domestic violence, is a more tricky area perhaps. In those cases, we can only look for the reasoning behind it and if the only answer is the different sex of the people, then we can determine that it is because of sexual discrimination.

It's idiotic to say 'we need feminism' and then cite foreign examples. So dumb.