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Some argue that the man should have wrapped his willy.
Original post by The Angry Stoic
Some argue that the man should have wrapped his willy.
But surely there is just as much female contraception around?
Because they're not the ones who would be physically having the abortion.
The first two replies really highlight the problem.
You can use protection, you can make a mistake, you can do whatever, if it ends in a pregnancy the decision is solely down to the woman, and that is unfair. A man should have the right to opt-out of parenthood, to give up all rights and responsibilities to the future child. A male abortion.
As it is, if a man wants to keep or get rid of a fetus, he has no choice in the matter, but he can be held financially responsible for something he had no say in? The argument 'Oh you shouldn't have sex if you don't want a child!' is so infantile it's beyond belief. If you believe in that then you should oppose contraception and abortion. And if you oppose though, then frankly I have no hope of getting sense out of you.
You can use protection, you can make a mistake, you can do whatever, if it ends in a pregnancy the decision is solely down to the woman, and that is unfair. A man should have the right to opt-out of parenthood, to give up all rights and responsibilities to the future child. A male abortion.
As it is, if a man wants to keep or get rid of a fetus, he has no choice in the matter, but he can be held financially responsible for something he had no say in? The argument 'Oh you shouldn't have sex if you don't want a child!' is so infantile it's beyond belief. If you believe in that then you should oppose contraception and abortion. And if you oppose though, then frankly I have no hope of getting sense out of you.
There is a wonderful invention called 'condoms'. Alternatively, they could opt to follow an older idea called 'abstinence', both of which are pretty good ways to avoid unwanted pregnancies, I hear.I agree that the last point is unfair, but really, the man and the woman are equally responsible for the conception of the child. It's both of their responsibilities to take precautions.P.S. I don't really think that the man opting out of responsibility for his child should be called 'male abortion'. It suggests that the man is making the choice that the woman should terminate the pregnancy. Parental responsibility and abortion are extremely different things.
Original post by Steevee
The first two replies really highlight the problem.
You can use protection, you can make a mistake, you can do whatever, if it ends in a pregnancy the decision is solely down to the woman, and that is unfair. A man should have the right to opt-out of parenthood, to give up all rights and responsibilities to the future child. A male abortion.
You can use protection, you can make a mistake, you can do whatever, if it ends in a pregnancy the decision is solely down to the woman, and that is unfair. A man should have the right to opt-out of parenthood, to give up all rights and responsibilities to the future child. A male abortion.
That does make sense, but it shouldn't be called an abortion, because that's just misleading.
If the female didn't want to have an abortion it would be a violation of the autonomy of the woman.
Having a fetus forcibly removed from your body sounds quite horrific to me.
EDIT: Look on the next page, I now recognise that the OP actually means opting out of financial support for the child, which is wrong anyway since having a child is a choice that both parents make, and a risk that they both take too.
Having a fetus forcibly removed from your body sounds quite horrific to me.
EDIT: Look on the next page, I now recognise that the OP actually means opting out of financial support for the child, which is wrong anyway since having a child is a choice that both parents make, and a risk that they both take too.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Maid Marian
Because they're not the ones who would be physically having the abortion.
This.
Although in theory it should be possible, and it would be "fair", you cannot force a potentially traumatizing procedure on another person's body. Every individual has the right to decide over their own body and as inconvenient is to father a child you don't want, it is not physically happening to a man.
If in doubt, use a condom. Yes there are female contraceptives, but if in doubt...if you want to protect yourself from lifelong responsibility, do so. Rather safe than sorry.
Also, be selective with the people you have sex with. If you never want to see her again or you feel like she's the type to lie about using contraception, maybe you shouldn't be having sex with her. I know this goes against the idea of the fun of having casual sex, but it comes with consequences.
Although I get your point, I don't think women are necessarily the 'privileged' ones in this scenario. Sure they have the option of having an abortion. But a lot of people are not okay with the idea. She is the one who has to make the choice, however difficult, and either kill her own fetus or go through pregnancy, childbirth and probably single motherhood. Whichever choice she makes, the consequences are bigger for her than for the man.
The law comes down to set rules and principles. No law will ever be flawless, but it is a question of the most reasonable outcome. Being able to force a woman to kill her child goes against all common sense, not to mention the principle that your body is your own.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Tabzqt
But surely there is just as much female contraception around?
She could be lying though. But then it's a bit more arguable. I don't think the man should be able to demand an abortion in that case but they shouldn't have to pay child support. It's all difficult to prove though.
So be sure and don't be silly. Wrap your willy.
If you make a child then you should be responsible for it whether you're the mother or the father. Sadly too many guys are willing to be there for the fun bit but don't want to know when the girl ends up pregnant. Male or female, every time you have sex there is a risk (though tiny if you use contraception) that a pregnancy may occur and by having sex you willingly take that risk every time. You should consider and be prepared for the possible implications before you engage in sex.
Original post by Steevee
As it is, if a man wants to keep or get rid of a fetus, he has no choice in the matter, but he can be held financially responsible for something he had no say in? The argument 'Oh you shouldn't have sex if you don't want a child!' is so infantile it's beyond belief.
As it is, if a man wants to keep or get rid of a fetus, he has no choice in the matter, but he can be held financially responsible for something he had no say in? The argument 'Oh you shouldn't have sex if you don't want a child!' is so infantile it's beyond belief.
Why is it infantile? Do you think sexual intercourse is a human right? That is 'infantile' thinking.
Original post by Steevee
If you believe in that then you should oppose contraception and abortion.
Complete non-sequitur. Everyone who goes through sex education at school is told that no method is 100%. You have sex at your own risk.
Despite the current culture, nature didn't intend intercourse to be solely a leisure activity, who knew that having sex regularly might result in conception.
The child is the one who will lose out if the father does not pay child support. In the grand scheme of things, financial contribution is only one small part of parenthood - and for men who don't want to raise or support their children, paying towards their upbringing is the least they could do. Biologically, the man loses control of what happens in a pregnancy once the sperm leaves the mushroom tip. Once it's in the woman's body, it becomes her choice. That's just nature, nothing you can do about it, and no point whining about it.
When a child is involved, the child's best interests are at heart - just as there are places where women cannot abort unwanted pregnancies, and have to continue to raise a child they perhaps did not want or plan for, then pregnancies where the man did not want a child he will have to financially support said child. It's the child that loses out without that support, and an adult should step up and accept responsibilities. Unless you have a vasectomy, always wear condoms (which even then don't give 100% protection) or abstain from sex completely, a man can't be sure he won't have offspring. Sad but true.
When a child is involved, the child's best interests are at heart - just as there are places where women cannot abort unwanted pregnancies, and have to continue to raise a child they perhaps did not want or plan for, then pregnancies where the man did not want a child he will have to financially support said child. It's the child that loses out without that support, and an adult should step up and accept responsibilities. Unless you have a vasectomy, always wear condoms (which even then don't give 100% protection) or abstain from sex completely, a man can't be sure he won't have offspring. Sad but true.
Original post by The Angry Stoic
Some argue that the man should have wrapped his willy.
What if the condom broke? (Or whatever contraception was used didn't work.)
What if the woman told him she was on the pill, and lied?
I agree, it is unfair. Obviously they shouldn't be able to dictate what happens to the woman's body, but men should not be forced to pay for the child if they don't want to.
Original post by Steevee
The first two replies really highlight the problem.
You can use protection, you can make a mistake, you can do whatever, if it ends in a pregnancy the decision is solely down to the woman, and that is unfair. A man should have the right to opt-out of parenthood, to give up all rights and responsibilities to the future child. A male abortion.
As it is, if a man wants to keep or get rid of a fetus, he has no choice in the matter, but he can be held financially responsible for something he had no say in? The argument 'Oh you shouldn't have sex if you don't want a child!' is so infantile it's beyond belief. If you believe in that then you should oppose contraception and abortion. And if you oppose though, then frankly I have no hope of getting sense out of you.
You can use protection, you can make a mistake, you can do whatever, if it ends in a pregnancy the decision is solely down to the woman, and that is unfair. A man should have the right to opt-out of parenthood, to give up all rights and responsibilities to the future child. A male abortion.
As it is, if a man wants to keep or get rid of a fetus, he has no choice in the matter, but he can be held financially responsible for something he had no say in? The argument 'Oh you shouldn't have sex if you don't want a child!' is so infantile it's beyond belief. If you believe in that then you should oppose contraception and abortion. And if you oppose though, then frankly I have no hope of getting sense out of you.
Superb post.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by MrFlash1994
If the female didn't want to have an abortion it would be a violation of the autonomy of the woman.
Having a fetus forcibly removed from your body sounds quite horrific to me.
Having a fetus forcibly removed from your body sounds quite horrific to me.
I'm pretty sure no one is saying that should happen, though.
The argument is that if the man doesn't want the baby, but the woman still goes through with it, the man shouldn't have to pay child support.
Original post by MrFlash1994
If the female didn't want to have an abortion it would be a violation of the autonomy of the woman.
Having a fetus forcibly removed from your body sounds quite horrific to me.
Having a fetus forcibly removed from your body sounds quite horrific to me.
I think OP meant more about the father paying for financial help.
But yes forced abortions happen, terrible.
Original post by Treeroy
What if the condom broke? (Or whatever contraception was used didn't work.)
What if the woman told him she was on the pill, and lied?
I agree, it is unfair. Obviously they shouldn't be able to dictate what happens to the woman's body, but men should not be forced to pay for the child if they don't want to.
Superb post.
What if the woman told him she was on the pill, and lied?
I agree, it is unfair. Obviously they shouldn't be able to dictate what happens to the woman's body, but men should not be forced to pay for the child if they don't want to.
Superb post.
If she lies then the man shouldn't be able to force the woman to kill the baby. Think how emotionally damaging that would be.
If the woman lied then the man shouldn't have to pay support but that's really hard to prove.
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