American Student - Oxford or Cambridge for History?

Poll

Oxford or Cambridge?

Hi TSR! I'm an American high school junior hoping to apply to either Oxford or Cambridge this October! Right now I'm planning on reading history, but I can't decide between the universities. As an American, I'm trying to find the course with the most flexibility overall. As for a college, I would like one that gives accommodation for all 3 years! From the university websites, and from general information on this forum, I have compiled this information:

CAMBRIDGE

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Course name: History

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Duration: 3 years

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Flexibility Overall (ability to change course): some (I think I could change to a related course after Part I of the Tripos)

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Flexibility Within Course (to study any aspect of history: geographical/chronological): Lots (No division between Ancient and Modern History - could study anything from the Greeks to the modern day)

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Selectivity: 3 apps per place

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Pre-Interview Tests: None

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Interview: Varies from college to college (could have a test); could be called back for interview again in January (for an international student this would be problematic)

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College Selection: Don't mind (almost all colleges give accommodation for all 3 years)

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Qualifications for Americans: At least 5 "history-related" AP tests with a score of 5; high scores on the SAT; above 700 on several "history-related" SAT Subject Tests

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Offers: May be placed in Winter Pool

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Overall positives: Flexibility of the course, College Accommodation

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Overall negatives: Higher qualifications (what counts as a history-related AP? I think AP's are similar to A-levels); less Americans apply than at Oxford; could have a test during interview, Winter Pool Seems Stressful; Interviews don't all happen at once

OXFORD:

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Course name: History

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Duration: 3 years

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Flexibility Overall (to change course): Not much

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Flexibility Within Course (to study any aspect of history: geographical/chronological): Lots, to an extent (the "History" course only begins with the decline of the Roman Empire: no Greeks)

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Selectivity: 4-5 apps per place

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Pre-Interview Tests: HAT

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Interview: No tests; may be interviewed more than once but in a one-week period (better for an international student)

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College Selection: More tricky (only some colleges offer 3 year accommodation)

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Qualifications for Americans: 3 AP tests with a score of 5 OR 3 SAT Subject Tests 700+; 2100 on the SAT

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Offers: Less stressful (I think pooling to other colleges occurs during the final selection process, not as another round)

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Overall positives: More manageable qualifications, more American students at Oxford, no interview tests!

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Overall negatives: Can't change course, division between Ancient and Modern History; may have to live out (more expensive)

Sorry for the huge post! I would appreciate any input to help me choose between these two fantastic universities!

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 1

shoshin

I would take a good look at the HAT past papers and make sure that you fancy your chances:

http://www.history.ox.ac.uk/prospective/undergraduate/applying/the-history-aptitude-test.html

It's an awkward little test, not everyone's cup of tea by any means, and is used to eliminate around 30% of applicants prior to the interview stage. Some potential Oxbridge candidates, perhaps with excellent qualifications and super confident of their interview technique, may prefer to give the HAT a miss and apply to Cambridge. On the other hand, the HAT was invaluable for me because I couldn't rely on those other aspects of my application. .

I appreciate that you are probably referring to a formal test when you say that you don't get one at Oxford, but I should mention that you may well be given a passage to read either before or during one or more of your interviews and then grilled on it.

Best of luck :smile:

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 2

nexttime

Original post by FingersCrossed7

College Selection: More tricky (only some colleges offer 3 year accommodation)

Most do offer 3 years accommodation, and even the ones that don't will probably have some rooms available for those that really want them. If you combine that with the fact that you'll be applying to a college that does offer the 3 years, the chances of you needing private accommodation are relatively small.

Have you also considered that most of the financial benefit of living in college comes from the fact that you have to move out over the holidays. This sometimes poses problems for internationals, especially if they weren't intending to go home 3 times per year (plus all the costs of flights therein).

Reply 3

fluteflute

It's worth mentioning that, as an American, you wouldn't be expected to fly to Oxford for interviews. You'd be welcome to if you wanted, but only European students are required to come. [This holds for all subjects but Medicine.] Skype interviews are quite common now.

Reply 4

FingersCrossed7

Thanks for the quick and helpful replies! I think I'm now leaning toward Oxford, because 3-year accommodation shouldn't be an issue. I also have one other question: since I'm only going to be applying to one UK university, should I mention why I specifically want to study at that university in my personal statement? ("I want to study history at Oxford because....)

Reply 5

shoshin

Original post by FingersCrossed7

..since I'm only going to be applying to one UK university, should I mention why I specifically want to study at that university in my personal statement? ("I want to study history at Oxford because....)

While there are no hard and fast rules wth the PS, in your situation I prob'ly would put a sentence or two along those lines. Whereas home (UK) students are generally unlikely to turn an Oxford offer down in favour of one of their other choices, some international students apply to prestigious unis in several countries, such that Oxford can on occasions just be an 'insurance' in case they don't get into Yale or wherever. So a couple of lines in your PS demonstrating positive engagement with Oxford as a destination might be useful.

The PS doesn't play a major part in the selection process for History, but it may well be used as a conversation starter at interview so make sure you have read the books you say you've read :tongue:

Also, for History at Oxford don't waste too much space describing non-relevant extracurricular activities :musicus:

'cos Oxford selects solely on academic potential. :goodluck:

Reply 6

nexttime

Original post by FingersCrossed7

I'd certainly aim to demonstrate knowledge relating to specific aspects of the Oxford course. Trying to seem passionate about what they will be teaching etc. As to dropping the name in specifically? I don't think i would personally: i'm not sure what it would add. But its up to you.

Its not exactly the most important aspect of an application anyway so whatever.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 7

Topaz_eyes

I'm not 100% sure about this but if you were apply to Cambridge and get pooled, as an international student I doubt you would be required to do a second interview.

I know Cambridge also offer skype interviews, or an interview in somewhere closer (I imagine they do an interview in the US somewhere). Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can clarify, but email [email protected] for more information :smile:

Reply 8

FingersCrossed7

Thanks again everyone! Ok I think your responses have helped me with most of my concerns about both universities... I also read somewhere that at Cambridge history students are tested twice during their course while at Oxford students are tested once. Is this true? I couldn't really tell from the websites.

Reply 9

qwertyuiop1993

Original post by FingersCrossed7

Oxford historians are tested twice: in first year and in third year, with only the third year counting for the degree. They also start a thesis at the end of second year, though I have no idea how much weight it is given.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 10

shoshin

Original post by FingersCrossed7

..Oxford students are tested once. Is this true? I couldn't really tell from the websites.

As qwerty indicated, there are Preliminary exams at the end of year one and you just need a pass mark in order to proceed to the second year. These exams don't count towards your degree result. At the end of the third year you take five written timed papers over a two week period. By this time you will also have handed in a 6000 word extended essay (after Christmas in year three) and a 12000 word thesis ( by Easter in year three). In calculating your final result, all seven pieces of work are weighted equally. Yep, the 6000 word essay is worth the same as the 12000 word dissertation :hmmmm2:

Reply 11

FingersCrossed7

Ok! I think I understand how the Oxford degree is assessed. How would a Cambridge history degree be tested? I remember something about a part I and a part II? Thanks.

Reply 12

Ryan_95

Post got removed for putting Oxford Brookes. People on here are soooo serious :smile:

Reply 13

Topaz_eyes

Original post by FingersCrossed7

Ok! I think I understand how the Oxford degree is assessed. How would a Cambridge history degree be tested? I remember something about a part I and a part II? Thanks.

So I think the Cambridge degree is tested in this way:

First year, there are exams known as Prelims at the beginning of Easter term. These don't count.
At the end of second year, there are the Part I exams, which count, on first and second year content.
At the end of third year are the Part II exams, which count, and cover third year content.

It's worth mentioning that at Cambridge you don't get an overall degree grade, you get (for History) a Part I grade and a Part II grade (e.g., you could have a 2.i in Part I and 1 in Part II.) Typically, you give your final year grade as your "overall" grade - so in that example you would say you had a 1.

Reply 14

62442fanatic

Hi! I'm a applying to Oxford for History and English next year. Being from Canada, I'm more familiar with the AP system, so I thought I should suggest "history-related" subjects that you might want to consider taking this year:

AP World History
AP European History
AP US History
AP Human Geography
AP Psychology
AP English Literature

Obviously the first three are directly history-related, but AP Human geography is quite interrelated with history, AP psychology would be useful because so much of History has to do with psychology (like Chengis Khan-what was up with him?), AP English because you can examine History through literature.
Also, remember you have to submit at least one essay (it might be two for a straight History applicant) to Oxford by November 10, which should be part of your coursework, so make sure you have a marked essay before then ( I know we generally don't write essays until mid-November, so you may have to request that you have an earlier deadline).

Reply 15

FingersCrossed7

Thanks for the great suggestions and good luck with your application :smile:

Over the past 2 years I have taken these AP classes and have received my qualifications back from the college board:

AP World History
AP European History
AP US History
----
AP English Language
AP Biology
AP Calculus AB

If everything goes well this fall, could I potentially receive an offer with no AP conditions because I've completed the requirement of "at least 3 AP's" with the sufficient score? Or are offers always based on 12th grade AP's? Thanks

Reply 16

hannah60000

Original post by FingersCrossed7

...

I would not be too concerned about the informal tests you have to take for Cambridge, because this depends entirely on the college you choose to apply to (it's not universal). The college I applied to did not require me to take a test at the interview, I just had two interviews.

I for one choose the Cambridge History degree over Oxford's for many reasons, but one being having to sit the HAT test, I thought it would be too stressful.

Good luck with your application, whichever one you decide to apply to they're both great institutions :smile:

Reply 17

62442fanatic

Original post by FingersCrossed7

Thanks for the great suggestions and good luck with your application :smile:

From what I've heard, it could go either way, probably dependant on your relative strength as a candidate. However, if you take no APs this year, you will likely be fine. If you take any APs they may be part of your offer. At the same time, taking another AP or two in a relevant subject might strengthen your application, although I think all 3 history APs and English Lit with a grade of 5 should suffice, so you probably shouldn't worry :smile:

Somewhat off-topic, but did you prefer AP World or AP Euro? I enjoyed AL World History, but I think I'll enjoy AP European History more (I'm taking it this year).

Reply 18

FingersCrossed7

Original post by 62442fanatic

Somewhat off-topic, but did you prefer AP World or AP Euro? I enjoyed AL World History, but I think I'll enjoy AP European History more (I'm taking it this year).

Thanks for the advice! I took World as an independent study as compared to Euro (which I took as a class) so they were completely different for me - I loved them both! I think Euro was more detailed while World covered much larger time periods. Good luck with your AP Euro class! :smile:

In addition to the AP tests I've taken the subject tests in World History and US History. Can these also count as "qualifications achieved?"

Also, senior year I'm taking:

AP Gov
AP Literature
AP Spanish
AP Physics
AP Calc BC

So a conditional offer could be made on any of these courses even though most of them don't relate at all to history?