To those who don't want kids...
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Do I worry when I 50 plus about not having kids? 50 is still a young age, why would I worry then?
To answe your question, no I do not worry in the slightest about not having kids. I live in the UK, we have care homes, older person communities which are govt funded. I intend on having a private pension plus a state pension, I see no reason to worry.
To answe your question, no I do not worry in the slightest about not having kids. I live in the UK, we have care homes, older person communities which are govt funded. I intend on having a private pension plus a state pension, I see no reason to worry.
(edited 10 years ago)
ok I don't know how to multi quote so bare with me.
To your 1st reply: we are actually in agreement. ALSO my comments are general, in the hope to reach those who blindly go forward without thought (yes it might work out well whichever path they take, but just trying to save some heartache)...YOU may not want kids, that's cool, and I can see you think a lot, but all I mean to say is for people to be mindful of their thoughts and desires. Sure, go with the current desire, why else would one not...just be mindful of it.
To the second: I maintain we are not overpopulated. The population size is not the issue, its the wastage and the greed. I don't really want a bigger population, but the world can actually support it. It might be overpopulated for your liking, its subjective. You're right it can't continue forever (without colonising other planets). easier
I don't believe I made any reference to the importance and rights of unborn lives, nor that we NEED more kids (just questioned it), indeed there's a whole developing world full of kids that can be schooled to come up with solutions but I have lived in the developing world and trust me - we are not ''better off', but that is a whole other conversation. How 'better off' we are actually comes down to happiness and well being, and Western countries are not in the top of that list. This is where the 'bigger picture' comes in.
Listen to Alan Watts on You Tube - you clearly have an analytical mind, you should enjoy it.
To your 1st reply: we are actually in agreement. ALSO my comments are general, in the hope to reach those who blindly go forward without thought (yes it might work out well whichever path they take, but just trying to save some heartache)...YOU may not want kids, that's cool, and I can see you think a lot, but all I mean to say is for people to be mindful of their thoughts and desires. Sure, go with the current desire, why else would one not...just be mindful of it.
To the second: I maintain we are not overpopulated. The population size is not the issue, its the wastage and the greed. I don't really want a bigger population, but the world can actually support it. It might be overpopulated for your liking, its subjective. You're right it can't continue forever (without colonising other planets). easier
I don't believe I made any reference to the importance and rights of unborn lives, nor that we NEED more kids (just questioned it), indeed there's a whole developing world full of kids that can be schooled to come up with solutions but I have lived in the developing world and trust me - we are not ''better off', but that is a whole other conversation. How 'better off' we are actually comes down to happiness and well being, and Western countries are not in the top of that list. This is where the 'bigger picture' comes in.
Listen to Alan Watts on You Tube - you clearly have an analytical mind, you should enjoy it.
Original post by Hyde
Eurgh. Massively clichéd paragraph. Please tell me what the "bigger picture" is, and also tell me how it's possible to follow an organ which pumps blood around the body.
there's a reason cliches become cliches, and why certain quotes last centuries, because there's truth to it (even though you can't see it - I mean, how can one see it without experience), you may get the reason why one day but not while you carry the attitude. Sure, run around with it and get it out your system, I hope you get it one day.
You see, even if you were told the answer, you will not understand it, hence the picture has to reveal itself to you - it will come to you.
Did you really ask me how its possible to follow an organ which pumps blood around the body, in reference to following one's heart? seriously? are we still in school?
Original post by Dee Leigh
How come?
Cos they don't want them? lol
I guess it's hard to 'get' if you don't feel the same way, but some people just don't have that maternal/paternal instinct.Also, children are not the be-all, end-all of family. Many elderly people enjoy the company of siblings, nieces/nephews, younger cousins . . . doesn't have to be children
Original post by sugarmouse
I guess I am just trying to make sure I have enough money and enough friends and extended family close to make sure it isn't an issue.
I guess I am just trying to make sure I have enough money and enough friends and extended family close to make sure it isn't an issue.
...Using your own words to reply: "who's to say that they wouldn't emigrate/fall out with me/die before me (morbid I know!)"
As for money, you'll never have enough money if you seek it. Billionaires want more, and more (that's what they like doing for their own reasons).
Even if you just want to be 'comfortable' - there are too many variables in life to worry about it - follow your heart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLD0P372xxQ - "What if money were no object - Alan Watts" (only 3mins and worth watching trust me).
Original post by Gillybop
The thought of dying old and alone doesn't fill me with joy like it does some of the kids here. But having children doesn't necessarily mean that wont happen, it does help to increase the chances that you might get the odd visitor at Christmas etc....
I have a child, so it's easy for me to comment, I didn't want one before he was born, but now he's here I couldn't imagine my life without him, and in a selfish way, if people believe that they will live a better life without children, then I don't want them to feel the joy associated with having one.
I have a child, so it's easy for me to comment, I didn't want one before he was born, but now he's here I couldn't imagine my life without him, and in a selfish way, if people believe that they will live a better life without children, then I don't want them to feel the joy associated with having one.
What an absolutely fascinating comment of yours(which got negged)
Don't think I've ever heard anyone say that before.
"... if people believe they will have a better life without kids I don't want them to know the joy of having them!"
You know,what I find fascinating about your comment and this subject is that,
time after time after time after time, you hear fathers say that having a child changed their life.
I will never have kids but I like to think that I understand something of the joy of having them.(I mean not babies,lol but kids)
I never understand why it comes as such a surprise that it can be and usually is a joy.
Having said all that.......survey after survey shows that once children are grown up and the parents are asked questions relating to their overall happiness it turns out that having children doesn't make you any happier!
(edited 10 years ago)
The OP asks a very important question i think.
i live my life knowing that if the worst happens-ie if I am in a car crash and become mentally impaired or physically disabled or if i grow old I will be completely on my own because I have no family in England.
I also wouldn't want friends to visit in those circumstances and anyway in old age your friends may be dead.
I have been in care homes-visiting - and I can say that I think there are few things in a modern rich country sadder than seeing an old person in such a place who never has a visitor.
Their whole day is spent 'alone' because the other patients can never be friends.
When its a woman I see this as sadder knowing how women love company and socialising.
But whats especially sad is when the woman concerned didn't have children not because she didn't want them but because no man ever asked to marry her.
Thus she was lonely during much of her life and unvisited during her final years.
Of course,almost as sad are the women who do have children but they are too busy to visit.
I enjoy being single very much.Just being able to read and think and do what I want when i want is bliss.
But Im not foolish enough to not realise there may be a price to pay in the future.
i live my life knowing that if the worst happens-ie if I am in a car crash and become mentally impaired or physically disabled or if i grow old I will be completely on my own because I have no family in England.
I also wouldn't want friends to visit in those circumstances and anyway in old age your friends may be dead.
I have been in care homes-visiting - and I can say that I think there are few things in a modern rich country sadder than seeing an old person in such a place who never has a visitor.
Their whole day is spent 'alone' because the other patients can never be friends.
When its a woman I see this as sadder knowing how women love company and socialising.
But whats especially sad is when the woman concerned didn't have children not because she didn't want them but because no man ever asked to marry her.
Thus she was lonely during much of her life and unvisited during her final years.
Of course,almost as sad are the women who do have children but they are too busy to visit.
I enjoy being single very much.Just being able to read and think and do what I want when i want is bliss.
But Im not foolish enough to not realise there may be a price to pay in the future.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Futility
I expect to be dead long before I reach the age of 50. Regardless, not wanting to be alone when you're older is a pretty crumby reason to have children in my opinion.
What from and why?
Original post by Reef Diver
I would state for the majority there most certainly is.
I feel I may have come across as one sided? I purely meant to say don't worry about it, let life takes its course, there is nothing wrong at all with not wanting kids, it doesn't make you in any way less of a person, as you said it comes down to one's preference. BUT everyone's mind CAN change with time (when I was 22 I would have sworn blind that my mind wouldn't change...and guess what? it did!). I have seen people really regret pursuing their career, then realising its too late. Having goals is good, but my advice is not to dwell on them too strongly. You know the scariest thing about pursuing a goal? its actually achieving it!
Both these videos are worth an infinite about of gold!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I2pcIbyq-0 "Alan Watts - Life" (2.5mins long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLD0P372xxQ Alan Watts - What do you desire (3mins)
I wish you all the best, and will be happy whatever you do
I feel I may have come across as one sided? I purely meant to say don't worry about it, let life takes its course, there is nothing wrong at all with not wanting kids, it doesn't make you in any way less of a person, as you said it comes down to one's preference. BUT everyone's mind CAN change with time (when I was 22 I would have sworn blind that my mind wouldn't change...and guess what? it did!). I have seen people really regret pursuing their career, then realising its too late. Having goals is good, but my advice is not to dwell on them too strongly. You know the scariest thing about pursuing a goal? its actually achieving it!
Both these videos are worth an infinite about of gold!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I2pcIbyq-0 "Alan Watts - Life" (2.5mins long)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLD0P372xxQ Alan Watts - What do you desire (3mins)
I wish you all the best, and will be happy whatever you do
Appreciate you posting this.I hadn't heard of this guy.Will watch the others with interest
Original post by moggis
Appreciate you posting this.I hadn't heard of this guy.Will watch the others with interest
No problem. He's amazing (died in 1973: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts) - his son (I think) using his recordings to make the clips. I like the one where he talks about when he went out to find the gurus, and wise men around the world, and found they were just like normal people; they had asked every question there is to ask and realised none of it mattered, but without going through that process, you don't get the experience which is where the value comes in.
Original post by Dilan97
What from and why?
Despair.
And because bringing another consciousness into being merely in order to keep one company and wipe your wrinkled arse when you're old is selfish and unrealistic. Children grow up, move away and develop their own lives. Old people with kids end up in the same place old people without kids do, in a retirement home, staring into space, waiting to die.
Original post by Reef Diver
there's a reason cliches become cliches, and why certain quotes last centuries, because there's truth to it (even though you can't see it - I mean, how can one see it without experience), you may get the reason why one day but not while you carry the attitude. Sure, run around with it and get it out your system, I hope you get it one day.
You see, even if you were told the answer, you will not understand it, hence the picture has to reveal itself to you - it will come to you.
Did you really ask me how its possible to follow an organ which pumps blood around the body, in reference to following one's heart? seriously? are we still in school?
You see, even if you were told the answer, you will not understand it, hence the picture has to reveal itself to you - it will come to you.
Did you really ask me how its possible to follow an organ which pumps blood around the body, in reference to following one's heart? seriously? are we still in school?
There are better ways of articulating yourself then using clichés. It would be more meaningful and have more of an impact if you didn't.
Back to the topic.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Blake-inator
I don't want to get to an old age. I'm tired enough of it as it is, and I'm only 16! I think 50 years in total would be enough for me
Only 16!
Wow, 16 factorial is old man...
Original post by tufc
If I do not reproduce, my life will have been a waste. This is a biological fact; the only way I can be happy on my deathbed is to know that my genes have been carried on.
No. It will never make a difference. Even if your genes are being passed on you're still going to die so it will have no benefit for you. Why on earth would you be happy that your "genes" are being carried on (amongst the 7-8 billion, non-stopping population)
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Reef Diver
ok I don't know how to multi quote so bare with me.
To the second: I maintain we are not overpopulated. The population size is not the issue, its the wastage and the greed. I don't really want a bigger population, but the world can actually support it. It might be overpopulated for your liking, its subjective. You're right it can't continue forever (without colonising other planets). easier
I don't believe I made any reference to the importance and rights of unborn lives, nor that we NEED more kids (just questioned it), indeed there's a whole developing world full of kids that can be schooled to come up with solutions but I have lived in the developing world and trust me - we are not ''better off', but that is a whole other conversation. How 'better off' we are actually comes down to happiness and well being, and Western countries are not in the top of that list. This is where the 'bigger picture' comes in.
Listen to Alan Watts on You Tube - you clearly have an analytical mind, you should enjoy it.
To the second: I maintain we are not overpopulated. The population size is not the issue, its the wastage and the greed. I don't really want a bigger population, but the world can actually support it. It might be overpopulated for your liking, its subjective. You're right it can't continue forever (without colonising other planets). easier
I don't believe I made any reference to the importance and rights of unborn lives, nor that we NEED more kids (just questioned it), indeed there's a whole developing world full of kids that can be schooled to come up with solutions but I have lived in the developing world and trust me - we are not ''better off', but that is a whole other conversation. How 'better off' we are actually comes down to happiness and well being, and Western countries are not in the top of that list. This is where the 'bigger picture' comes in.
Listen to Alan Watts on You Tube - you clearly have an analytical mind, you should enjoy it.
The fact the world could support a higher population (as in provide resources for bare survival at massive in other areas)isn't an argument against being overpopulated. Increasing population will have detrimental effects to peoples lives. You can argue the sacrifice should be made but that is up to individuals to decide. The facts are that more people mean than currently living people need to give up more resources and change their way of life to accommodate a growing population. This world isn't a human support factory and to continue supporting population growth like you advocate is acceptable would require us to destroy the world around us in order to create more people. There is no upside to this but massive decreases in the quality of life. The growth of human population follows an exponential curve (which is further increased by modern science), so while it may have taken us thousands of years to reach this population size doubling our population will happen much faster, growing at this rate we need to stop before we reach the critical point not just one generation before.
Claiming that people should live with less and change their lifestyle because I want children that aren't needed is as greedy as the western lifestyle you see to dislike. The rights and value of unborn/unconceived lives is crucially important because by having more children you are knowingly taking from people who already exist to support those which don't yet exist.
As for westerners having a better quality of life, to claim that more resources doesn't lead to a better life is a joke. It certainly isn't the only thing but it is important, and having more resources doesn't make your life worse, but having less does. I'm fairly sure if you were to offer people in the developing world the chance to have the resources enjoyed by the western world they wouldn't refuse it. You can easily go on about how important other aspects of life are but as people living with a constant supply of resources we take them for granted.
Neither wanting children nor wanting a better life and more material goods are unreasonable desires but we need to balance the two. By demonising material desire as greedy but viewing having children as fine we are going to force quality of life lower and lower.
If you can't find a way to fulfill yourself at the age of 50 without having children then you'll probably be depressed at that age anyway.
If I don't want to have children now,my decision will not be swayed based on what I think might be the case when I'm 50.
If I don't want to have children now,my decision will not be swayed based on what I think might be the case when I'm 50.
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