Links between mathematical ability and Asperger's syndrome

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I want to point out a few things. Firstly, people are using the words "Autism" and "Asperger's" as if they're the same thing, when they're not. Secondly, scoring high in the AQ test does not mean you have Asperger's syndrome.

With regard to the correlation, it's certainly not true that people with Asperger's are always good at mathematics. Aspies often excel at logical thinking and have obsessive behaviour, but this definitely does not always manifest itself in terms of high mathematical ability. However, there is definitely a higher prevalence of high mathematical ability amongst people with Asperger's.

Also, Asperger's syndrome definitely exists. I don't think that any informed person would doubt that. What a lot of people don't understand is that it's a spectrum disorder, so everyone is affected in different ways. You can have two people with Asperger's who are completely different. Having said that, people with Asperger's are almost certainly not going to be very sociable, because difficulties or aversion to social interaction is one of the core elements of Asperger's.

I have Asperger's and my parents are completely different. I've seen families where both children and parents share autistic traits and those where the children are completely different. I don't know if there is a trend.

Having mathematical abilities that are not common in your family is definitely not a suggestion of Asperger's since mathematical ability is not a trait of Asperger's simply something that can sometimes emerge as a result of it. Mathematical ability is not genetic and there are a huge number of people without Asperger's that are unusual in their family in terms of their mathematical ability.

NB: I got 41 in that test and I'd say I'm very good at Maths.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 21

wrexhamfc

I'm decent at maths and I got 33. Really though, that questionnaire was as much an introversion test as anything else.

I got 42

I scored 13 in the AQ test, despite being a huge introvert and fairly anitsocial. I am taking as much maths as humanly possible including self-teaching multiple extra qualifications and am doing very well in all of them; I plan to study maths at a top university.

I know a lot of people with Asperger's and Autism, but none of them are any good at maths. Their fascinations are scientfic and military and history based, although I don't know anyone on the Autistic spectrum that is really specially talented in their area of interest. Of the highly talented mathematicians I know, none of them are autistic. I think certinaly some people with Asperger's have a fascination with maths and are very good at it, but I don't think drawing links between Asperger's and maths ability is in any way helpful because the way I see it, only a small percentage of talented mathematians are have it and people with Asperger's have a wide range of obsessions, most do not focus on maths.

Reply 24

Mr M

Study Forum Helper

You want to find out if people with Asperger's are good at maths so you ask the users of the TSR maths forum?

This beats that survey into vegetarianism you conducted in an abattoir.

Reply 25

Economi

In the documentary "Beautiful young minds" about the UK maths Olympiad team, as far as I can remember every member had some form of autism.

Reply 26

RVNmax

I scored 30, which is only slightly higher than I was expecting. I just finished my second year of uni studying Maths. Though I failed this year.

Reply 27

Bloxorus

I got 41...oh sh*t!

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Reply 28

Jkn

Interesting responses, cheers (sorry to not quote anyone).

Just came across a very interesting study. They found the average score of a maths olympiad winner (BMO2 I presume?) to be 24.5 and the average score of people on the cambridge maths course to be 21.5.

I'd say that was extremely significant. The test is not likely to be accurate but I'd say it was certainly good enough to give some sort of an indication.

I have a few more results to add to the mix (as I got my family interested) :lol:

:

My dad got 25, my brother got 11 and my mum got 6 (I was able to predict all 3 scores before to within 2 point :biggrin:

). Maths was all of their worst subjects at school by a huge margin and my mum is a psychotherapist (and used to be a social worker as well) so I think that explains the low score :tongue:

One more question:

Do you think that studying subjects like maths (and getting obsessed) can make you more likely to display 'Asperger's' traits? (I feel as though getting obsessed with maths has certainly done this for me, I used to be far more sociable. I also think that training your mind to function in such a rigorous way may mean that assigning obvious meanings to ambiguous statements becomes more difficult. Also, training yourself to develop emotion understanding (therapy, etc..) may imply the opposite).

Oh and, btw, this isn't a formal survey or anything and, even if it was, I'm interested if those that are good at or interested in maths are likely to have Aspergers, not the converse (to Mr. M's comment specifically). :smile:

Reply 29

benzeman

I've been formally diagnosed with AS (by the NHS), even though I don't show all the traits. Don't get me wrong, I've still got some strong "symptoms" (doesn't sound like the right word, but you know what I mean) - obsessions with trains and computers, poor fine motor skills, e.t.c., but I make friends fairly easily, for example :smile:

HTH

Reply 30

james22

38 and am doing maths at Oxford.

Reply 31

myfriendSQRT(-1)

I got 15, I'm doing Physics at Manchester. I'd say I was pretty good at maths, but I have to work at it and it's definitely not my strongest point! I find I'm pretty outgoing, and make friends pretty easily. Interesting results here though!

Reply 32

moritzplatz

i think we need to define what it means to be good at maths.

Reply 33

Jkn

Original post by moritzplatz

i think we need to define what it means to be good at maths.

Top 2%, ability to get a grade 2 or higher in STEP perhaps?

A lot of people have said they are 'okay' on here who I know would probably be in the top 0.5% at least :lol:

Reply 34

Rajvir

I got 27 and I would say that I am okay with maths

Reply 35

moritzplatz

Original post by Jkn

Top 2%, ability to get a grade 2 or higher in STEP perhaps?

A lot of people have said they are 'okay' on here who I know would probably be in the top 0.5% at least :lol:

I was thinking more something like average 80%+ in one of the 4 top unis.

and even that is not enough, we would need research achievements, but i don't think we would have many people fitting this category here!

Reply 36

`Jts

I got 23 and I'm good at maths.

Reply 37

jarasta

Got 23. I don't know how good I am compared to most people. But I am objectively the best in year in my 13 for Maths and Physics.
I love maths to the point of obsession most times.

I'm definitely socially awkward and shy, generally introverted and I am a bit OCD about symmetry I like it, and sometimes, I go in a phase were if im walking on a tiled ground in town or a house etc, I have to step on the tiles to make a cross. Or if I spit on my LHS, I have to spit on the RHS. If I click my left heel on my leg or something, I feel the need to click my right heel on my left leg or something similar, alligning things to face the same way etc or such that they form some sort of pattern. But I don't think I have Asperger's at-least I haven't been diagnosed.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 38

BabyMaths

Original post by Jkn

Top 2%, ability to get a grade 2 or higher in STEP perhaps?

Which STEP? Whichever I suspect far fewer than 2% could do that.

Reply 39

Jkn

Original post by moritzplatz

Ah okay, well 80%+ would co-ordinate to ability to get an A grade at regular maths A-level (roughly half of the population take it I think, then 40% of those get an A/A*). So that would likely correspond to anyone at any uni for maths I would say? :tongue:

The maths course at the top 4 unis would probably be within the capabilities of only that same 2% that I specified previously as everyone at Cambridge and Warwick would certainly not struggle to get a grade 2 in STEP I, and Warwick (and often occasionally Imperial, Bath, Bristol, UCL, etc.. often ask for these grades). So perhaps the top 2% is those at unis that (can) ask for STEP (so top 6/7?) :tongue:

Actually:
Out of those taking (full) A-level maths (which I think is 10% of 18-year-olds in the UK, so we can divide all percentages by 10 only we get to the 'very good' category as we can then assume those who didn't take A-level maths would not be in that category),

I'd say "okay" would refer to that top 40% (A grade at A-level),
and then "good" would be the top 5/10% (those likely to be (capable of) getting A*A* at maths A-levels),
and then "very good" would be the the top 2% (those likely to gain entry to one of the top few unis in the country and/or capable of a grade 2 in STEP),
and then "outstanding" would be the top 0.5% (those likely to gain entry to Oxbridge and/or those capable of a grade 1 in STEP II or STEP III (not necessarily 'and')),
and then "exceptionally gifted" would be the top 0.1% (grade S in STEP II or STEP III, possibly also good scores in BMO1 and/or capability with BMO2-level (though many candidates get 1 or 2 marks on the day, as their topics don't come up)),
and then "near-genius level" would be the top 0.01% (seriously competing for a place in the IMO team).

:smile: