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    Not as Muslims no! The first Muslim that makes such a complaint needs pulling in for questioning.

    Thud, the only fascism I can see - (identified here by excessive reliance on group ethnic characteristics as indicator of politics) comes from you, Beekeeper and cottonmouth - the usual suspects when it comes to leftist group attacks on the majority population.

    Andronicus Comnenus makes a very important point about the Met's obvious willingness to lie. The Met's agendas are usually extremely PC, statist, leftist.

    Eton333 and Wez are the only ones to hint at the other fascism - here, the willingness of an ethnic group to attack another using political means. That's the only story this thread contains.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Not as Muslims no! The first Muslim that makes such a complaint needs pulling in for questioning.

    Thud, the only fascism I can see - (identified here by excessive reliance on group ethnic characteristics as indicator of politics) comes from you, Beekeeper and cottonmouth - the usual suspects when it comes to leftist group attacks on the majority population.

    Andronicus Comnenus makes a very important point about the Met's obvious willingness to lie. The Met's agendas are usually extremely PC, statist, leftist.

    Eton333 and Wez are the only ones to hint at the other fascism - here, the willingness of an ethnic group to attack another using political means. That's the only story this thread contains.
    Beekeeper has just been put in the same bag as cottonmouth and thud? :rofl:

    That is hilarious.
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    Cuddles,

    Beekeeper said
    Yes.
    It's less surprising if you don't buy into a false right/left dichotomy in which ALL parties have group interests and fancies - especially or only if they are minority positions.

    I'll let Beek explain why all "Muslims" are right to be outraged that other Muslims might be treated as suspects, your prior attempt to ride the coat-tails of Socrates made you both look more stupid. But Beek might have a better argument that Soc.

    I'll take you on if you like on where Beek and cottonmouth have significant differences. Get back soon if you know why I'm wrong.
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    Ah,

    Cuddles,

    I jumped back and forth from the other threads I was reading and posting in and saw you read my post. I have to say it's typical you didn't answer.

    There's a pronounced problem in this forum. People post challenges and then disappear. It might just be that I post on racialist/nationalist matters and so see the anti-racialist/nationalist voices go silent, but even if it's across the board I think it's a bloody nuisance.

    Mods should make posters in D&D account for their posts. And if they can't, they should drop bombs on them.

    The D&D section requires the most active and interventionist modding. It absolutely can't be ideologically based, but it must be forensic in it's punishment of dumbness and trolling. If mods have the time they should challenge every unsupported post and argument and if qualifiation is not forthcoming the poster should worry about punishment.
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    (Original post by Indus1986)
    Religion has taken over their lives.
    howTF do you know ?!?!?!



    anyway i think if you are completely religious in this country, have a beard, are fully mobile, and are between 18 and 30 you are a target. its not thier fault, it's the crap policing. it could have been another mezenzes case.

    what really annoyed me was that the police claimed the after storming a small house in the middle of the night with 200 officers weiding rifles, that one brother had a gun, and shot the other brother, as if to say "here police il shot him for you!" ???? :confused:
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    No. I truly believe that not everyone is capable of becoming a suicide bomber, no matter how much indoctrination, or anger fills their brains. Only certain types of people can kill. Only a certain state of mind allows you to kill. Survival is mans greatest and biggest instinct. It is life's biggest and greatest instinct. To act against survival is unnatural. To kill is unnatural. Two hugely unnatural actions put together, and we are talking severely disturbed people. And i don't think being pissed off about Muslims being raided is going to create the sort of mindframe you'd need to decide to blow up yourself and as many others as possible.
    While I generally agree (bar the fact survival often means killing others), I think it's missing the point. By slowly alienating more Muslims, trenches are dug between cultures. Not everyone who's 'capable' of being a terrorist becomes one. However, if that person has more reason (tensions between cultures, a sense of injustice etc.) they're more likely to become a terrorist. You said the raids would "further alienate Muslims from the police". Surely this is just one step along the road to creating more terrorists?

    You need to get into a seriously distressed and disturbed psychological state before you become capable of the act of suicide. There are deep levels of depression, and the feeling that you will NEVER EVER get out of it, so there isn't any point in living. You can't see any course of action, you can't see how things will get better, you forget about the future, you don't care about the past. All you want to do is be gone. Its a torturous state of mind, and unless you get help immediately- and sometimes, people don't know there is anything wrong- then you will go towards suicide. It's a very big deal, and there is immense psychological turmoil. It gets to a point where there is only one way out. (As you may have guessed, i've been there). This is where suicide bombers are at when they go to blow themselves up. They feel there is no other choice. However, added to that, is a deep, evil anger at other people, along with the indoctrination, the warped mindset that a killer needs.....these people cannot be created by any amount of talking. Thats why i believe we have gone over the top with it all. There aren't many suicide bombers in this world, believe me.
    I'm sorry to hear that.

    However, not all 'terrorists' are suicide bombers. You don’t need to be willing to give your life for your cause to be a terrorist. Not all those that are suicide bombers strike me as morbidly depressed. They're, imo, just a combination of angry and gullible. Obviously some will be depressed, but it’s imo not essential.

    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Not as Muslims no! The first Muslim that makes such a complaint needs pulling in for questioning.
    Why is their religion relevant?

    If a Muslim, Christian, Jew, whoever makes a complaint, surely they should be treated the same?
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    (Original post by Wez)
    While I generally agree (bar the fact survival often means killing others), I think it's missing the point. By slowly alienating more Muslims, trenches are dug between cultures. Not everyone who's 'capable' of being a terrorist becomes one. However, if that person has more reason (tensions between cultures, a sense of injustice etc.) they're more likely to become a terrorist. You said the raids would "further alienate Muslims from the police". Surely this is just one step along the road to creating more terrorists?


    I'm sorry to hear that.

    However, not all 'terrorists' are suicide bombers. You don’t need to be willing to give your life for your cause to be a terrorist. Not all those that are suicide bombers strike me as morbidly depressed. They're, imo, just a combination of angry and gullible. Obviously some will be depressed, but it’s imo not essential.

    Why is their religion relevant?

    If a Muslim, Christian, Jew, whoever makes a complaint, surely they should be treated the same?
    How many do you know?

    Yeah, i agree, but that is sort of what i said anyway. The further alienating of Muslims is going down the wrong path, but i don't believe that it will create terrorists. The worst it could do was make things a lot harder for everyone but the actual terrorists, people who don't actually need any level sense of justification for what they do. They are sociopaths in the first place. Youa re either sociopathic or you aren't.

    Arthur Oliver misses the point as usual, and waffles about ethnics etc etc. Isnt what i said simple enough to take in?
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Not as Muslims no! The first Muslim that makes such a complaint needs pulling in for questioning.

    Thud, the only fascism I can see - (identified here by excessive reliance on group ethnic characteristics as indicator of politics) comes from you, Beekeeper and cottonmouth - the usual suspects when it comes to leftist group attacks on the majority population.

    Andronicus Comnenus makes a very important point about the Met's obvious willingness to lie. The Met's agendas are usually extremely PC, statist, leftist.

    Eton333 and Wez are the only ones to hint at the other fascism - here, the willingness of an ethnic group to attack another using political means. That's the only story this thread contains.
    Where was i being fascist? Where did i say "Yes, ALL Muslims should be outraged by what has happened"?

    And you say all of this as though your own responses aren't 100% predictable.

    The only story this thread contains, you say? Herein lies one of your character flaws, Arthur. The BNP of course, don't use political means to attack anyone, do they?
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    How many do you know?
    As many as you.

    Yeah, i agree, but that is sort of what i said anyway. The further alienating of Muslims is going down the wrong path, but i don't believe that it will create terrorists. The worst it could do was make things a lot harder for everyone but the actual terrorists, people who don't actually need any level sense of justification for what they do. They are sociopaths in the first place. Youa re either sociopathic or you aren't.
    Why do the terrorists target the West? Because they hate the West? Why do they hate the West? Will the police raids increase or decrease this hatred? Will an increased hatred result in more terrorists?

    It's easier to phrase this particular argument as a series of questions imo.
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    (Original post by Wez)
    As many as you.


    Why do the terrorists target the West? Because they hate the West? Why do they hate the West? Will the police raids increase or decrease this hatred? Will an increased hatred result in more terrorists?

    It's easier to phrase this particular argument as a series of questions imo.
    Why do terrorists target the West? Erm, they don't. There are terrorists all over the world, in so many countires. There are terrorists blowing people up in Israel. There are terrorists blowing people up in Palestine. There are Irish terrorists, Iraqi terrorists..... They don't all target the West specifically at all. You are taking the problems we have here to generalise about all terrorists, and that's silly.

    Because they hate the West? Thats a bit of a simple aswer, isn't it? I despise the West, i know, i'll become a terrorist. In that case, i despise Conservatives, i'll go and snipe as many as i can to send a harsh mssage to them.....

    Why do they hate the West? Well, assuming we are talking about the specific terrorists who do target the West, the reasons(apart from the fact that they are unhinged loonies- and you really don't need much more than that) include what the West is doing in the Middle East at the moment, which is causing tension, and the West's support for Israel in the onflict between them and Palestine. Another reason, becuase of the so-called "war on terror". Guantanamo Bay, illegal wars, shootings of innocent people by police.....there are many reasons why people "hate" the West, justified reasons. But there is still no justification for terror, and that terror, the murder of innocents, is no more sensational than your average serial killer, child-killer, or whoever. Terrorists are far too often glamourised by the media, hyperbolised, amde big, when they are nothing but dirty rotten murderers. Why the special treatment? Why the warped reverence?


    And for the thrid time- an EMPHATIC NO. The "hatred" will NOT cause terrorists. Terrorists are one type of killer. Killers are born, not made( and i'm talking first degree, not self-defence killings, duress killings, etc). Only a severely warped individual is capable of murdering another.

    Noone should believe that Muslims getting more and more disaffected with the establishment will make them turn to terrorism. They aren't creatures, they aren't stupid, theyre normal human beings. Would YOU turn to terrorism if your community were being hard-done by? Did black people turn to terrorism during the Brixton riots years ago? The entire black population? When all of the sus laws were raging? No, because normal people don't. Abnormal people do.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Ah,

    Cuddles,

    I jumped back and forth from the other threads I was reading and posting in and saw you read my post. I have to say it's typical you didn't answer.
    I wasn't online at 04:22 am, when you made that post, or whenever it was that you made the earlier post you refer to. Would you care to explain to me, what are you talking about?

    There's a pronounced problem in this forum. People post challenges and then disappear. It might just be that I post on racialist/nationalist matters and so see the anti-racialist/nationalist voices go silent, but even if it's across the board I think it's a bloody nuisance.
    I agree with that actually. I've been in a couple of discussions here, with well known D&Ders who have not replied a post which shows lots of flaws and especially, which point to evidence.

    Mods should make posters in D&D account for their posts. And if they can't, they should drop bombs on them.

    The D&D section requires the most active and interventionist modding. It absolutely can't be ideologically based, but it must be forensic in it's punishment of dumbness and trolling. If mods have the time they should challenge every unsupported post and argument and if qualifiation is not forthcoming the poster should worry about punishment.
    That is an impossible task.

    Although, this rant I feel is somehow inspired by your hallucination that I was reading your posts when I wasn't. The punishment of ''dumbness'' applicable here? Let's not be so naive.
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    (Original post by ArthurOliver)
    Cuddles,

    Beekeeper saidIt's less surprising if you don't buy into a false right/left dichotomy in which ALL parties have group interests and fancies - especially or only if they are minority positions.

    I'll let Beek explain why all "Muslims" are right to be outraged that other Muslims might be treated as suspects, your prior attempt to ride the coat-tails of Socrates made you both look more stupid. But Beek might have a better argument that Soc.

    I'll take you on if you like on where Beek and cottonmouth have significant differences. Get back soon if you know why I'm wrong.
    Your wrong because you fail to realise, it was a comment made mainly in jest. Beekeeper is a tory, this is well known and he is being compared to a communist and respect supporter. I found that amusing.

    Me and Socrates ''looked more stupid''? Your last post shows that what you say is not necessarily credible. Does this fit that category?

    The argument is down to such methods of profiling. The view they have shown is not the slightest extremist or strange as you make it out to be.
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    (Original post by happybob)
    So the police raiders had secret plans to create an authoritarian state!!! That's incredible.
    because forcing entry to innocent people's houses, shooting them and dragging them off arrested is not authoritarian at all? ^o)
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    (Original post by Thud)
    because forcing entry to innocent people's houses, shooting them and dragging them off arrested is not authoritarian at all? ^o)
    No not really, it's just upholding the law, this thing happends in all countries and has nothing to do with ideological fascism.
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    (Original post by happybob)
    No not really, it's just upholding the law, this thing happends in all countries and has nothing to do with ideological fascism.
    Entering and shooting people is 'upholding the law'? Why the hell are people worried about knife policy then, people should be more worried about getting shot - by the police! :eek:
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    (Original post by The Green Manalishi)
    Entering and shooting people is 'upholding the law'? Why the hell are people worried about knife policy then, people should be more worried about getting shot - by the police! :eek:
    Alright so mistakes were made, still has nothing to do with fascism.
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    (Original post by happybob)
    Alright so mistakes were made, still has nothing to do with fascism.
    pretty damn authoritarian in my eyes.
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    (Original post by happybob)
    Alright so mistakes were made, still has nothing to do with fascism.
    :p: Was a bit ironic hehe... S'ok though, I'll let Thud continue
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    (Original post by Thud)
    pretty damn authoritarian in my eyes.
    Only if the Police in question are beyond reproach. Which I pretty well hope they aren't.
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    (Original post by Wez)
    Why is their religion relevant?
    Yup. That be the question.

    About the poor posts - I'm saying that D&D is killed by all the base insults, unsupported arguments, and deliberate diversions and obfuscations - all the yeahbutwhys, whatdoyoumeans and Idisputethemeaningofthatwords - they go on forever if the goodwill debaters allow it by adjusting downward to the idiot level. I already had in mind the question asked in another thread of why D&D was so quiet and was thinking of the voices I missed.

    The idiots (beekeeper, thud, cottonmouth or whoever) might yet explain why "Muslims" are right to be outraged. I'd like to see it.
 
 
 
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