What is an ex poly and what's so bad about it??
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Original post by _Fergo
If so, also excludes Yale (ranked top law school in USA)
https://www.mlaw.gov.sg/content/minlaw/en/practising-as-a-lawyer/approved-universities.html
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Original post by PQ
If you had read a QAA review, an external examiners report and the examination reports that are looked at by exam boards and annual reviews that go to committee etc etc then you'd realise that the current system addresses pretty much every issue you've raised here.
The QAA look at the process for validating courses - ensuring that the FHEQ levels, subject benchmarks and external advisors/examiners from outside the university are involved in the approval process.
The same is true for annual exam boards/reviews and in depth quinquennial reviews.
These processes do highlight differences between universities. That's the point. The university concerned will then make changes to bring the quality levels back into line with the sector.
Sometimes (like with Oxford: http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/ReviewsAndReports/Documents/University%20of%20Oxford/University-of-Oxford-HER-16.pdf page 21) the reports highlight inconsistencies between colleges teaching the same courses ("Students whom the review team met said that 'rigour is lost to excessive workloads'. Other students told the review team that there was little parity across the colleges in terms of workload. They had tried raising this with their departments but had been told that it was a college matter." ).
The QAA look at the process for validating courses - ensuring that the FHEQ levels, subject benchmarks and external advisors/examiners from outside the university are involved in the approval process.
The same is true for annual exam boards/reviews and in depth quinquennial reviews.
These processes do highlight differences between universities. That's the point. The university concerned will then make changes to bring the quality levels back into line with the sector.
Sometimes (like with Oxford: http://www.qaa.ac.uk/en/ReviewsAndReports/Documents/University%20of%20Oxford/University-of-Oxford-HER-16.pdf page 21) the reports highlight inconsistencies between colleges teaching the same courses ("Students whom the review team met said that 'rigour is lost to excessive workloads'. Other students told the review team that there was little parity across the colleges in terms of workload. They had tried raising this with their departments but had been told that it was a college matter." ).
Nowhere does it compare the syllabi content between universities, which is the empirical evidence you are asking for and which doesn't exist. The QAA does not provide, for example, a critical analysis of the BA English at Oxford and that at London Met, which can then be compared. The QAA inspects procedures and processes. Professors set their own reading lists and this fact alone causes variance in difficulty.
The facts we do have are that Oxford spend more per student on educating them; that they provide a heavily tutorial-based teaching method with a higher tutor-student ratio; that they attract more well-known professors; that the students' academic records before university are some of the best in the country; and that the application and recruitment process is the most rigorous in the country. Some rational inference can be made from this, which is what I have done.
Original post by PQ
Implying that Oxford - or any other university - is perfect is misunderstanding how degrees are designed, validated and monitored.
I implied no such thing. It's a world-class university, it's not perfect.
Original post by jneill
Maybe, maybe not. But most employers and the rest of the world beyond TSR don't care much, if at all.
That's a different discussion, but I think people do care about their quality of education, regardless of prestige.
Ex-polys have single handedly destroyed the value of degrees. They should have stayed polytechnics and continued to offer respectful vocational qualifications, not the half-baked, watered down degrees that they produce now.
Original post by #ChaosKass
Ex-polys have single handedly destroyed the value of degrees. They should have stayed polytechnics and continued to offer respectful vocational qualifications, not the half-baked, watered down degrees that they produce now.
You mean Ken Clarke and John Major who made the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 into law.
Original post by PQ
You mean Ken Clarke and John Major who made the Further and Higher Education Act 1992 into law.
Well, yes, I'm no fan of Europhile Clarke or moderate Major, but a lot of blame should be put on Blair for his atrocious 50% pledge. Putting it simply, a significant portion of that 50% are not suited to or not intelligent enough for a rigorous university course, and would be better off doing an apprenticeship. Now because of Blair and Labour, they are all forced to attend university, with most of them ending up with below-par degrees from below-par institutions and struggling to find employment.
Original post by #ChaosKass
Well, yes, I'm no fan of Europhile Clarke or moderate Major, but a lot of blame should be put on Blair for his atrocious 50% pledge. Putting it simply, a significant portion of that 50% are not suited to or not intelligent enough for a rigorous university course, and would be better off doing an apprenticeship. Now because of Blair and Labour, they are all forced to attend university, with most of them ending up with below-par degrees from below-par institutions and struggling to find employment.
Starting to sound like more than a "single" hand now
Original post by #ChaosKass
Ex-polys have single handedly destroyed the value of degrees. They should have stayed polytechnics and continued to offer respectful vocational qualifications, not the half-baked, watered down degrees that they produce now.
Original post by #ChaosKass
Ex-polys have single handedly destroyed the value of degrees. They should have stayed polytechnics and continued to offer respectful vocational qualifications, not the half-baked, watered down degrees that they produce now.
except of course the fact that CNAA validated and 'validated by other university' Degrees were offered at Polys and other HE institutions long before 1992...
over 1.3 million CNAA degrees , both undergraduate and postgraduate had been awarded prior to it's disbandment in 1992
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_National_Academic_Awards
I'll bet you don't even know what the Robbins Report was ...
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by jneill
If so, also excludes Yale (ranked top law school in USA)
https://www.mlaw.gov.sg/content/minlaw/en/practising-as-a-lawyer/approved-universities.html
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https://www.mlaw.gov.sg/content/minlaw/en/practising-as-a-lawyer/approved-universities.html
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Yes I saw, bit is it Singapore we are talking about? The person seems to have run off or perhaps they are still in Singapore and asleep?
I would take more notice of what the SRA says.
The Singapore list is obviously made up to require minimal effort. They cant have checked all degrees and dont need to because the amount of Singapore law students abroad is relatively small, so they just pick certain unis. Only 4 in the US are deemed good enough quality etc? It starts to sound ridiculous. Princeton isnt on theire either.
The teacher mentioned would just be rleaying the fact that the regulations had saud you had to attend Unis on the list. I doubt they understand or have even heard of place like Manchester etc.
Hopefully he will come back and explain.
Original post by 999tigger
Hopefully he will come back and explain.
Oh I'm quite sure he will back. On this or any number of similar "my RG uni is better than your uni" threads...
And whether he will clearly explain anything remains to be seen.
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Original post by jneill
Oh I'm quite sure he will back. On this or any number of similar "my RG uni is better than your uni" threads...
And whether he will clearly explain anything remains to be seen.
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And whether he will clearly explain anything remains to be seen.
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It is not Singapore. If you have carefully read my posts I said a European country in the EU. Almost all engineering and law degrees from ex polys are not recognised even now in the year 2016.
This creates a lot of problems to students from my home country who study in the U.K. Unfortunately many of them did not have the privilege to be correctly advised like my sister.
Original post by ppapanastasiou
It is not Singapore. If you have carefully read my posts I said a European country in the EU. Almost all engineering and law degrees from ex polys are not recognised even now in the year 2016.
This creates a lot of problems to students from my home country who study in the U.K. Unfortunately many of them did not have the privilege to be correctly advised like my sister.
This creates a lot of problems to students from my home country who study in the U.K. Unfortunately many of them did not have the privilege to be correctly advised like my sister.
As in Greece/Cyprus?
Care to link the list?
Original post by ppapanastasiou
It is not Singapore. If you have carefully read my posts I said a European country in the EU. Almost all engineering and law degrees from ex polys are not recognised even now in the year 2016.
Linky?
Regarding engineering, have they heard of the Washington Accord?
And in any case, you are again talking about something that may (or may not) affect a very small minority of UK students.
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Original post by _Fergo
As in Greece/Cyprus?
Care to link the list?
Care to link the list?
funny how the greeks send people to UK universities then ...
i'd be interested to see this list or maybe he's just a [deleted] ...
the simple fact is according to the relevant professional regulators qualifying degrees fro mthe Uk are qualifying degrees
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by zippyRN
funny how the greeks send people to UK universities then ...
i'd be interested to see this list or maybe he's just a malaka ...
the simple fact is according to the relevant professional regulators qualifying degrees fro mthe Uk are qualifying degrees
i'd be interested to see this list or maybe he's just a malaka ...
the simple fact is according to the relevant professional regulators qualifying degrees fro mthe Uk are qualifying degrees
I think the law recently changed to accept all EU law degrees as equivalent, provided certain requirements are met. Nothing about specific universities (in my knowledge, at least).
Original post by zippyRN
maybe he's just a [deleted] ...
Almost died there trololol.(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by _Fergo
As in Greece/Cyprus?
Care to link the list?
Care to link the list?
Well done Sherlock
Although according to this (old article) any EU awarded engineering degree is accepted in any EU country, including Greece. But they are fussy about ones awarded outside the EU...
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/greece-under-fire-for-failing-to-recognise-mice-status/789649.article
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Original post by jneill
Well done Sherlock
Although according to this (old article) any EU awarded engineering degree is accepted in any EU country, including Greece. But they are fussy about ones awarded outside the EU...
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/greece-under-fire-for-failing-to-recognise-mice-status/789649.article
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Although according to this (old article) any EU awarded engineering degree is accepted in any EU country, including Greece. But they are fussy about ones awarded outside the EU...
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/greece-under-fire-for-failing-to-recognise-mice-status/789649.article
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Just wanted to make sure... :P
Not sure about engineering degrees (though that definitely looks bizarre) - was referring specifically to law degrees.
Original post by jneill
Well done Sherlock
Although according to this (old article) any EU awarded engineering degree is accepted in any EU country, including Greece. But they are fussy about ones awarded outside the EU...
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/greece-under-fire-for-failing-to-recognise-mice-status/789649.article
Posted from TSR Mobile
Although according to this (old article) any EU awarded engineering degree is accepted in any EU country, including Greece. But they are fussy about ones awarded outside the EU...
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/greece-under-fire-for-failing-to-recognise-mice-status/789649.article
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First of all very often EU law clashes with the home country law. As I said again it is almost all engineering and law degrees from almost all ex polys. I must admit the list was not exhaustive but they were a lot and all of those mentioned were all ex polys.
Second, calling me a ma....ka is very rude language. I speak some Greek so I know. So please jneil delete the last post of zippyRN.
Third, you are aware the risk of Britain exiting the EU very soon. So laws and regulations do change.
Fourth, why am I getting warnings about the TSR regulations? I find it funny that I get warnings when other people swear at me.
Fifth, it is kind of strange of what you are arguing. Given all the differences between Oxbridge and low ranked unis ( entry criteria, funds, better researchers as quantified from the REF etc. ) it would actually be a miracle if the degree of the low ranked uni was as demanding and prestigious to that of Oxford.
Sixth, I never said anything about my RG uni being better than yours. Never did such a direct comparison. All I am saying is that common sense dictates that if you take for example Oxford and compare it with a low ranked uni it surely should matter in terms of reputation and how demanding the degree is. Common sense dictates this. If you want to deny something so obvious than be my guest.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by ppapanastasiou
First of all very often EU law clashes with the home country law. As I said again it is almost all engineering and law degrees from almost all ex polys. I must admit the list was not exhaustive but they were a lot and all of those mentioned were all ex polys.
Second, calling me a ma....ka is very rude language. I speak some Greek so I know. So please jneil delete the last post of zippyRN.
Third, you are aware the risk of Britain exiting the EU very soon. So laws and regulations do change.
Fourth, why am I getting warnings about the TSR regulations? I find it funny that I get warnings when other people swear at me.
Fifth, it is kind of strange of what you are arguing. Given all the differences between Oxbridge and low ranked unis ( entry criteria, funds, better researchers as quantified from the REF etc. ) it would actually be a miracle if the degree of the low ranked uni was as demanding and prestigious to that of Oxford.
Sixth, I never said anything about my RG uni being better than yours. Never did such a direct comparison. All I am saying is that common sense dictates that if you take for example Oxford and compare it with a low ranked uni it surely should matter in terms of reputation and how demanding the degree is. Common sense dictates this. If you want to deny something so obvious than be my guest.
Second, calling me a ma....ka is very rude language. I speak some Greek so I know. So please jneil delete the last post of zippyRN.
Third, you are aware the risk of Britain exiting the EU very soon. So laws and regulations do change.
Fourth, why am I getting warnings about the TSR regulations? I find it funny that I get warnings when other people swear at me.
Fifth, it is kind of strange of what you are arguing. Given all the differences between Oxbridge and low ranked unis ( entry criteria, funds, better researchers as quantified from the REF etc. ) it would actually be a miracle if the degree of the low ranked uni was as demanding and prestigious to that of Oxford.
Sixth, I never said anything about my RG uni being better than yours. Never did such a direct comparison. All I am saying is that common sense dictates that if you take for example Oxford and compare it with a low ranked uni it surely should matter in terms of reputation and how demanding the degree is. Common sense dictates this. If you want to deny something so obvious than be my guest.
Still waiting for the link to the list.
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Original post by jneill
Still waiting also from you to delete the offensive post of zippyRN. But hey it is ok I am used to double standards.
So here is the link
http://62.103.84.30/2en.php
If you have difficulty understanding the link let me know. It is partially in Greek and partially in English. Whenever you see ΑΡΣΗ ΟΜΟΤΑΓΟΥΣ it means that the course is not recognised. You will see this only with ex polys and almost all of them are law and engineering degrees.
I have been bashed and insulted by many people here in TSR. I have never used swear words. You could for once show me that you are impartial and delete the offensive post.
Until then I will be waiting patiently for the next bashing.
(edited 7 years ago)
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