Degrees are now way too easy, discuss.

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EmptyBracket
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Grade inflation has eroded the value of a degree; a 2:1 is far too easy to achieve. Every man and his dog has a 2:1 these days, they are practically handed out with packets of cornflakes. This is intensifying competition in the graduate job market; high achievers with overall grades of 80% plus are unable to distinguish themselves from the competition. I have graduated from a top 15 University with a high 1st, yet in the job market I am competing against people who might have a grade as low as 57% (disgustingly, my University awards a 2:1 for achieving 57% or a 1st for 67%!).

The education system is broken; degrees have been watered down; the classification system is a joke (10% difference for grade boundaries is MASSIVE). Discuss.

Edit- to add food for thought, here is an interesting article on this issue. Many people posting on this thread seem very keen to disagree despite the overwhelming evidence, perhaps they find it convenient to deny the facts as they know they themselves are one of those who, without all this dumbing down, would have struggled to achieve "good honours":

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-revealed.html
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tjsmith94
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(Original post by EmptyBracket)
Grade inflation has eroded the value of a degree; a 2:1 is far too easy to achieve. Every man and his dog had a 2:1 these days, they are practically handed out with packets of cornflakes. This is intensifying competition in the graduate job market; high achievers with overall grades of 80% plus are unable to distinguish themselves from the competition. I have graduated from a top 15 University with a high 1st, yet in the job market I am competing against people who might have a grade as low as 57% (disgustingly, my University awards a 2:1 for achieving 57% or a 1st for 67%!).

The education system is broken; degrees have been watered down; the classification system is a joke (10% difference is MASSIVE).
I disagree. I don't think degrees are easier, I just think people are assuming if they have a degree they're suddenly going to land in a job. Sadly, that isn't how things work. You have an advantage over the students with a 2:1 by having a 1:1, but that only gets your foot in the door for an interview. The rest is all down to you.

It's a dog eat dog world.
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Maid Marian
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Depends what degree you are doing, I guess.
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IStoleChristmas
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(Original post by EmptyBracket)
Grade inflation has eroded the value of a degree; a 2:1 is far too easy to achieve. Every man and his dog had a 2:1 these days, they are practically handed out with packets of cornflakes. This is intensifying competition in the graduate job market; high achievers with overall grades of 80% plus are unable to distinguish themselves from the competition. I have graduated from a top 15 University with a high 1st, yet in the job market I am competing against people who might have a grade as low as 57% (disgustingly, my University awards a 2:1 for achieving 57% or a 1st for 67%!).

The education system is broken; degrees have been watered down; the classification system is a joke (10% difference is MASSIVE).
Because you did 10% better in your degree does not mean you will do 10% better in your employment. Sounds like you're just complaining about not being able to swan straight in to a job.
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EmptyBracket
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I have a high 1st in BSc Economics, a degree some would consider tough. I thought it would be tough when I started, yet I found it laughably easy.

A few decades ago barely anyone got a 1st. Degrees were MUCH tougher than they are now, there has been a substantial amount of dumbing down, to make degrees more accessible to the masses. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional, or the holder of a low 2:1 themselves (you'd have got a 2:2 or 3rd several decades ago )
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EmptyBracket
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You obviously don't study Economics, otherwise you'd realise the effect a less rigorous degree has on what is called a separating equilibrium. There is no doubt that degrees today are easier, go back 30 or 40 years and getting a 1st was almost unheard of. Have people suddenly got massively more intelligent? NO, degrees have been watered down. More competition has been introduced into the graduate job market, but the majority of these additional people are of a lower quality than previously.

(Original post by tjsmith94)
I disagree. I don't think degrees are easier, I just think people are assuming if they have a degree they're suddenly going to land in a job. Sadly, that isn't how things work. You have an advantage over the students with a 2:1 by having a 1:1, but that only gets your foot in the door for an interview. The rest is all down to you.

It's a dog eat dog world.
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EmptyBracket
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It is an indicator of ability, intelligence and acts as a signal to potential employers. Sounds like you're the holder of a 2:1

(Original post by BenP)
Because you did 10% better in your degree does not mean you will do 10% better in your employment. Sounds like you're just complaining about not being able to swan straight in to a job.
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LexiswasmyNexis
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(Original post by EmptyBracket)
Grade inflation has eroded the value of a degree; a 2:1 is far too easy to achieve. Every man and his dog had a 2:1 these days, they are practically handed out with packets of cornflakes. This is intensifying competition in the graduate job market; high achievers with overall grades of 80% plus are unable to distinguish themselves from the competition. I have graduated from a top 15 University with a high 1st, yet in the job market I am competing against people who might have a grade as low as 57% (disgustingly, my University awards a 2:1 for achieving 57% or a 1st for 67%!).

The education system is broken; degrees have been watered down; the classification system is a joke (10% difference for grade boundaries is MASSIVE). Discuss.
I don't have a 2:1 degree.


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LexiswasmyNexis
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Also sounds like you missed the boat in terms of becoming an employable individual.

That course mate with a 65 and a tonne of ECs and work exp might have got your grades if they concentrated 100% on the course.


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tjsmith94
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(Original post by EmptyBracket)
You obviously don't study Economics, otherwise you'd realise the effect a less rigorous degree has on what is called a separating equilibrium. There is no doubt that degrees today are easier, go back 30 or 40 years and getting a 1st was almost unheard of. Have people suddenly got massively more intelligent? NO, degrees have been watered down. More competition has been introduced into the graduate job market, but the majority of these additional people are of a lower quality than previously.
I'm studying Mathematics.

How can you be sure that degrees are easier? With ease of access to information via the internet, learning has never been any easier because you don't have to hunt for hours through books and articles in order to find the information you need. Admittedly more people are getting 2:1's and 1:1's than ever before, but that's only because that's what the industry expects of graduates nowadays. If they didn't get those grades they'd be wasting £9000+/year.
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EmptyBracket
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I have a boat load of EC, was head of a society and competed at a high level on a sports team. This is besides the point though, keep on topic- this is about how watered down degrees have become not my personal case.

(Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
Also sounds like you missed the boat in terms of becoming an employable individual.

That course mate with a 65 and a tonne of ECs and work exp might have got your grades if they concentrated 100% on the course.


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EmptyBracket
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Well as a mathematics student you should know that we can analyse the data, run a few regressions and invalidate that hypothesis very easily; grades have continually increased over the past decade at University when people still had access to all of the resources you have mentioned. They have no doubt facilitated the ease of learning over the years, yes, but you are missing the bigger picture. Degrees have become easier; there is massive pressure on Universities to increase the number of "good honours" awarded as it impacts their status on the University league tables.

(Original post by tjsmith94)
I'm studying Mathematics.

How can you be sure that degrees are easier? With ease of access to information via the internet, learning has never been any easier because you don't have to hunt for hours through books and articles in order to find the information you need. Admittedly more people are getting 2:1's and 1:1's than ever before, but that's only because that's what the industry expects of graduates nowadays. If they didn't get those grades they'd be wasting £9000+/year.
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(Original post by EmptyBracket)
Sounds like you're the holder of a 2:1
And in here lies the problem. You may have a first and I congratulate you on that, but putting people down because they got a 2:1, which is also an amazing achievement, just proves how butthurt you really are that you're first doesn't mean much more in terms of employment.
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tjsmith94
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(Original post by EmptyBracket)
Well as a mathematics student you should know that we can analyse the data, run a few regressions and invalidate that hypothesis very easily; grades have continually increased over the past decade at University when people still had access to all of the resources you have mentioned. They have no doubt facilitated the ease of learning over the years, yes, but you are missing the bigger picture. Degrees have become easier; there is massive pressure on Universities to increase the number of "good honours" awarded as it impacts their status on the University league tables.
I never said it wasn't. All I said was that you can never be 100% certain.
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EmptyBracket
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I think a high 2:1 is a reasonaly good achievement (say 65%+). But I believe handing out that same 2:1 to people who achieve a pathetic 57% is actually disrespectful to people achieving say 65%+. These guys are in a completely different ball park to those with 57% and the same goes for the first degree classification. Infact not only is it in a completely different ball park, its a completely different game too

(Original post by tjsmith94)
And in here lies the problem. You may have a first and I congratulate you on that, but putting people down because they got a 2:1, which is also an amazing achievement, just proves how butthurt you really are that you're first doesn't mean much more in terms of employment.
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EmptyBracket
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I think, in statistical term, we can say with 99% confidence that degrees have become easier Ask any academic and they will tell you a 2:2 back in 1970 is equivalent to a 2:1 today. Dumbing down is to blame, degree are going the same way as A-levels. They will have to introduce the high first, analogous to the A* soon.

(Original post by tjsmith94)
I never said it wasn't. All I said was that you can never be 100% certain.
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LexiswasmyNexis
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(Original post by EmptyBracket)
I have a boat load of EC, was head of a society and competed at a high level on a sports team. This is besides the point though, keep on topic- this is about how watered down degrees have become not my personal case.
Sorry. I apologise for making lazy assumptions.


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EmptyBracket
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Thank you, apology accepted.

(Original post by LexiswasmyNexis)
Sorry. I apologise for making lazy assumptions.


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EmptyBracket
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Well, ceterus paribus, you would have found it even more difficult several decades ago, that is for sure! I'm not saying everyone finds it easy, but I am saying degrees lack the rigour they used to.
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What a pointless trivial input. Personal anecdotes are not necessarily indicative of a wider trend.
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