Arsenal are not a big club

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c.a1979

I was watching the Emirates Cup in my spacious three bedroom studio flat in Surrey. I had my feet up on my £400 glass table, sipping on a cappuccino and puffing on my thick, tobacco-infested cigar whilst watching Didier Drogba & Co. tear Arsenal apart on their own home soil. It brought a smile to my face in many ways - the way Drogba smashed Arsenal's back-doors in at the tender age of 35 and the way the Turks slapped and manhandled Arsenal like a ragged doll. It was very entertaining from a neutral perspective. Champions League? You're having a ****ing laugh.

Lets face it, Arsenal are in shambles. They no longer have that fear factor in the Premier League. The Emirates is not a fortress, top European players don't want to play for Wenger, and their fans are fickle. The summer transfer window so far has been embarrassing for Arsenal fans. They have been out-muscled by the likes of Napoli and have been shut out by Liverpool. There is NOT A CHANCE Suarez is going to Arsenal. And even if he did, Arsenal will stil be a mediocre team fighting for...nothing.

I also find it humorous that Arsenal fans big-up Jack "out for 90% of the season" Wilshere a bit too much. Whats all the hype about? He's an average player but has proven to all of us that he can't play at the top level. Its far too physical for him. He needs to move to France or La Liga at least that way his hamstring wont go every two days.

So what does every one think? Are Arsenal still a big club? I think most of us can agree they're not. They show no ambition and have not come close to winning anything for 8 years. Their reputation has gone down the gutter.

Liverpool don't have to sell. No club has to sell their players, why should they? they're always free to refuse. Both Suarez and Higuain said they wanted to come, or were at least open to going. The Bayern player who joined Wolfsburg said also.

And the Emirates Cup? lolol.. pre-season friendlies mean ****, everybody knows that. Arsenal beat a reasonable City side 3-1. united lost in the Far East, big ****ing deal. since when has judging a team based on pre-season friendlies ever been rational?

And yeah, Wilshere is injured a lot. So was van Persie for a while, but look at him now. Being injury prone doesn't mean a player is ****.

Reply 221

c.a1979

Original post by Francis Jeffers

Man United are a big club because their premier league titles are in double digits. Until arsenal can achieve that we can talk. Its funny you bring wages into this when not too long ago Wenger said he could afford Rooney's wages. Funnily enough they were shown the door in those negotiations too... no one can take arsenal seriously these days lol

lulzz.. so this applies to all other teams then. The nearest to you in Premier League titles is Chelsea and eeek.. ARSENAL incidentally!

Reply 222

c.a1979

Original post by Wilfred Little

Basically, such is the nature of the football fan.

But the arguments are on our side (Villa's) and the ultimate goal is to win trophies. Of that there is no doubt.

lol.. A villa fan critiquing Arsenal? Who has more trophies, bud? Who has a larger fan base, both domestically and internationally? Who is the bigger cultural institution? Everybody knows Tony Adams, Wenger, Wright, Seaman, Chapman, "one nil to the Arsenal", etc. Who the hell, beyond Villa fans or football fans in general, know who Withe was? Your most famous manager in decades made his name at United long ago, and not at your lot.

Yeah, you'll say European Cup. And? By that reasoning, Hamburg is a bigger club than Arsenal lol.. As is Marseille lol.. And you're mentioned eight years lol.. Do you understand how the calendar works? so 1996 is not before 2005? heh heh..

Reply 223

c.a1979

Original post by ninuzu

But again it circles back round to what you define as being 'big'. A Chelsea fan could argue that they have a larger global impact and fanbase, more European success and larger numbers of shirt sales. Likewise a Villa fan could argue that they have a richer history both domestically and continental. Whereas the Arsenal fan could argue otherwise by claiming that Arsenal attract better players than the likes of Villa and have had more recent success.

I agree that Liverpool and United are way ahead of the rest mind you. But again, an Arsenal or Chelsea fan may have reason to disagree on Liverpool due to recent league positions etc.

I just think that the whole thing is too difficult to judge and there's no neutral ground.

it is subjective, but I'd say history, fanbase and finance are the main points. So Newcastle is a big club because of its fanbase and not due to history. If a Toon fan gets annoyed lol.. what great achievements has the Toon ever made? heh heh...

Reply 224

ninuzu

http://thechriswhitingshow.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/english-footballs-biggest-clubs-revealed/

This is interesting. Guy has come up with a points system for how "big" a club is.

Reply 225

TRS-T

Big club = Big fanbase

Reply 226

username917703

Original post by c.a1979

lol.. A villa fan critiquing Arsenal? Who has more trophies, bud? Who has a larger fan base, both domestically and internationally?

Who gives a **** about that? Have you actually seen your fans? Every dickhead in London jumped on the Arsenal bandwagon because of Wright & Henry, southern football fans are a ****ing embarrassment. Bet you're not even from Islington yourself.

Arsenal fans are cringe worthy, either southern know nothing dickheads head to toe in merchandise like Lethal Bizzle or some clueless overseas fan who will jump ship when they feel like it.

Your stadium is ****ing horrific too and ripped off of Benfica's. Embarrassing.

Who is the bigger cultural institution?

We are

Everybody knows Tony Adams, Wenger, Wright, Seaman, Chapman, "one nil to the Arsenal", etc.

Claims Arsenal have this fantastic history & legacy but rattles off a load of Sky era names. Typical Arsenal fans, the biggest set of modern day football muppets going.

Who the hell, beyond Villa fans or football fans in general, know who Withe was? Your most famous manager in decades made his name at United long ago, and not at your lot.

You, obviously.

Yeah, you'll say European Cup. And? By that reasoning, Hamburg is a bigger club than Arsenal lol.. As is Marseille lol..

Marseille's doesn't count as they bribed their way to it. Hamburg could certainly make a claim.

And you're mentioned eight years lol.. Do you understand how the calendar works? so 1996 is not before 2005? heh heh..

I didn't even mention 8 years.

Reply 227

ZÃ¼rich

Original post by Wilfred Little

. It was Villa who invented league football, look up William McGregor. I'd say inventing the football league as we know it is pretty ****ing big culturally and greater than anything Arsenal have ever done.

Claims Arsenal have this fantastic history & legacy but rattles off a load of Sky era names. Typical Arsenal fans, the biggest set of modern day football muppets going.

You, obviously.

Marseille's doesn't count as they bribed their way to it. Hamburg could certainly make a claim.

I didn't even mention 8 years.

There's alot of truth to this unfortunately. I play footie in West London and literally 90% of the guys who came of age there during 2002-2004 are Arsenal supporters. But that doesn't mean that Arsenal havent got an extremely deep, long term supporter base from North London. In the late 90s when we played at Wembley in the CL we almost sold it out with 70k fans and that was years before the invincibles etc and that fanbase are still the core season ticket holders at Arsenal. You speak as if Arsenal have only had success recently but we've won titles in literally every decade bar one since the 1930s. Chelsea on the other hand used to get 10k gates as recently as the early 90s and their modern day fanbase is largely post-Roman. Chelsea is obviously not a working class area, although Islington aint any-more either, so there supporter base was always limited. In fact a large number were from various parts of the South who were attracted by the racism/horrible atmosphere at SB. QPR have always been the working class, locals team from West London.

Anyway not so annoyed by fans from other parts of London but I'm ****ed off big time to see the queues at Kings Cross/Euston after every home game bringing supporters back to the Home Counties etc and the Korean tourists taking a photo every 2 minutes. Would happily lose this lot even if it meant a few million lost revenue.

Cant disagree that the Emirates is a crappy stadium. Still, spectacular in it's size etc and no more noiseless than Stamford Bridge or Old Trafford despite what people say.

You cant deny that Arsenal dont have serious history and tradition mate. You're talking about the Bank of England club that used to rent Bentleys to bring the directors from the City of London to board meetings etc. Marble halls of Highbury, Herbert Chapman, titles in every decade, George Graham, 1971 double etc etc. We had as many titles as Utd until 2007. Only thing were missing is a CL.

Marseille didn't bribe their way to the CL, just the Ligue 1 title the same year and even then it was a trivial game against **** opposition that they bribed for convenience rather than necessity. Uefa didnt strip it from them.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 228

username917703

^ Can't be bothered to respond to every point Zurich cos I'm on my phone but regarding history what I meant was, Arsenal of course have history and success in abundance it's just that a lot of these weapons think football began in 1992 and the be all and end all is the Sky/Wenger/Henry/Bergkamp era onward.

You get some genuine lads but you know what sort of people I'm on about.

Reply 229

ninuzu

Yeah, some people now may not have heard of Peter Withe, but go 30 years in the future, how many people would you find that remember Ian Wright?

I read an interesting article about football in the 80's and part of it said 'seeing Peter Withe on the street then would be like seeing David Beckham on the street now'.

Reply 230

Aky786UK

Original post by Zürich

In the late 90s when we played at Wembley in the CL we almost sold it out with 70k fans and that was years before the invincibles etc and that fanbase are still the core season ticket holders at Arsenal.

Oh bloody hell, I'd forgotten about that but remember it also for Batistuta's goal which was a real bullet from outside of the box. I can't even remember why they played there in the first place?

Reply 231

susanneblonde

Original post by Wilfred Little

you have to have some major success to have a global fanbase, like arsenal does. we don't control who sees NBC or whatever,, and the same applies to any global club.

you invented league football? arsenal invented the centre-half. the WM formation, and essentially is a major reason why the Premier league is as big globally. this is why we have a big global fanbase.

your point about fans is illogical, as how fans behave doesn't reflect on how big a fanbase is. arsenal's average attendances have always been higher than yours, even when you were winning European cups. i bet there have always been more arsenal fans in the west midlands than villa fans in London/South East. you first paragraphs are illogical, since arsenal fans have always been common in London/South East.

and peter withe? sorry, no, he's not that known compared to other players of that era. Sounness, Dalgish, Keegan, Robson, Brooking, yep. Withe, no. You mention sky era, well Brady, Stapleton, O'Leary, Sansom, McDonald, Ball, etc. were *****y players, right? you mention your history, which is only for statsmen and anoraks. the average person knows **** about them, which imho at least is the true test. People who don't follow football know Messi or Ronaldo. Or who Alan Ball was. People know Yorke more for Man U than Villa.

Arsenal is bigger than Villa on practically every count.

Fan base - higher average attendances for decades, check the stats yourself, google it.

Trophies (including many records that i won't go into here that villa have never come close to)

Better/greater/more iconic players. I've mentioned some above and can mention many more.

More money, even long before the Emirates, Wenger, or Graham for that matter.

If your only comeback is European Cup, then fine. the other guy answered it well.

Reply 232

susanneblonde

Original post by ninuzu

So how come people still know who Keegan was? bar Villa fans, or people who enjoy football, Withe is not and never was a big/household name. Dn't thiink the blokes in the pub or your mates represent all public opinion.

Reply 233

susanneblonde

as for why Arsenal are not a big club..haha. what?

Only Man U and Liverpool have won more trophies in England.

6th highest turnover in the world and 6th highest brand value in the world.

Global brand, global fanbase, and recognised the world over.

many records including first ever domestic cup double, most FA Cups, tactical innovations, first televised game ever, first floodlit game, most consecutive wins in a row, longest run in top division, set the tactical/training/dietary agenda for modern football, etc.

in anybody's book, Arsenal is one of the biggest clubs in the UK, without question.

the OP seems to judge big club status on current success. haha. that's his view, i dont' agree. it's a mix of things. history, current success, money/finance, fanbase, achievements.