D&D Theology's "Ask About Christianity" Thread MKII

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

I'd say the council of Nicaea did to an extent, sorting various books to remove those of questionable origin in order to compile the bible? :dontknow:

Yeah but that's not inventing Christianity. That implies that Christianity is made up rather than reporting of facts.

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Reply 21

Stiff Little Fingers

21

Original post by greeneyedgirl

Yeah but that's not inventing Christianity. That implies that Christianity is made up rather than reporting of facts.

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I'd say it's certainly creating christianity - taking a collection of various teachings, sorting them to remove the incredibly dubious stuff and assembling it into the religion, rather than it just being a loose collection of ideas.

Reply 22

greeneyedgirl

19

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

I'd say it's certainly creating christianity - taking a collection of various teachings, sorting them to remove the incredibly dubious stuff and assembling it into the religion, rather than it just being a loose collection of ideas.

I'd say it's solidifying it in the same way that the printing press solidified the English language. But it didn't create it or invent it, just like it would be ridiculous to claim that the printing press created or invented English.

Reply 23

IMakeSenseToNone

11

Original post by TheKingOfTSR

Who invented Christianity?

Ooh fun question, depending on how we define 'Christianity' I think both of the answers given are correct. If we are to consider Christianity as a dogmatic religion then you could argue for either Jesus for being the 'reconfigurer' whose teachings are what the religion is based on, and for Paul who is responsible for spreading the teachings around and for the foundation and upkeeps of the early churches (it is certainly common for Christianity to be attributed to Paul if we are to look at it secularly). If Christianity is just about the organised part, the Nicene council could certainly get credit as well as Paul. In this view you are best saying a number of people invented it.

If we are to look beyond the legalistic and dogmatic side of Christianity to the spiritual heart of it then I would certainly lean towards greeneyedgirl's view. I would personall go with this view, in a rather nice quote, "The object of faith is not a doctrine, for then the relationship would be merely intellectual. The object of faith is not a teacher with a doctrine, for when the teacher has a doctrine, the doctrine is more important than the teacher and the relationship is again intellectual. The object of the faith is the reality of the teacher – that the teacher really exists. The object of faith is hence the God-Man in the sense of his existence". Søren Kierkegaard, Concluding Unscientific Postscript (1846)

It's rather cliched but if Christianity is about the relationship to God, who is revealed to us as Jesus, ("If you knew me, you would know my Father also” John 9:19), and the dogma is added baggage then you can easily say that no one invented it and it is we, through making the act of faith, who invent our own Christianity. In Kierkegaard's philosphy (I swear he is the closest thing i'll get to a boyfriend :innocent:

) Christianity is the way in which we relate with 'truth' and therefore 'God' through our own subjective and individualistic ways, indepedently of cultural religion, which then transforms our thoughts and gives us a commitment to Christ. Christianity is therefore the communion with the God-Man and is not something which can be 'invented' or put into words and dogma as in the councils, although this kinship was only possible when God became incarnate so if you argued for anyone you would argue for Jesus as the 'inventor' for he made that communion possible.

/End the insane ramblings of a crazy person with too much free time.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 24

Mazzini

16

Original post by The Angry Stoic

Can you give an example?

Basically what IMSTN said. :yep:

Original post by IMakeSenseToNone

/End the insane ramblings of a crazy person with too much free time.

At least you spend your excess free time doing something useful :tongue:

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Reply 25

IMakeSenseToNone

11

Original post by Mazzini

At least you spend your excess free time doing something useful :tongue:

Arguing theology on the internet counts as useful now? Squeet! If only my college professor's who got my work late thought so :lol:

Reply 26

OurSeaBee

1

Original post by IMakeSenseToNone

Ah there's nothing like an orthodox to make you feel bad about how little you know about early church fathers :holmes:

Any recs for inidividual people and their theology is explore? So far the only ones I have any level of knowledge on who I like is Origen and Greggory of Nyssa. My current knowledge is focused more on later european philosophers/Christian existentialists and sadly getting to explain the trinity and persons of God through Heidegger's view on art, isn't something that comes up often :tongue:

Yeah. Most of my knowledge of the Fathers is based on my priest's sermons. It just happens that I could deploy the ones I have read on this occasion.

Ummm, the Apostolics are good. So are the Desert Fathers.

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

I'd say the council of Nicaea did to an extent, sorting various books to remove those of questionable origin in order to compile the bible? :dontknow:

Codified. I'd say they codified it.

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Reply 27

IMakeSenseToNone

11

Original post by OurSeaBee

Yeah. Most of my knowledge of the Fathers is based on my priest's sermons. It just happens that I could deploy the ones I have read on this occasion.

Ummm, the Apostolics are good. So are the Desert Fathers.

Dude your priest is cool. I may just kidnap him and tie him to a chair and force him to talk about Origen with me... Not that that's weird or nothing. No siree.

Codified. I'd say they codified it.

Oooh good term! Whenever we have a 'reconfigurer' (i.e. a person whose philosphy is so unlike what came before it's hard to even put into existing words or concepts) who reveals a greater, previously unknown truth like what Jesus did, the 'articulator' of that message can be the main means of communicating, defining and structuring it ala the early Church and council. In which case, if we take Christianity as an organised religion and not just the relationship with God, perhaps we can call the Nicene council the inventor of the communicatable (not sure if word but why not xD) Christianity that we know of today whereas Jesus was the founder or subject and the God-Man through which the truth and purpose behind the religion can be reached.

Reply 28

OurSeaBee

1

Original post by IMakeSenseToNone

Dude your priest is cool. I may just kidnap him and tie him to a chair and force him to talk about Origen with me... Not that that's weird or nothing. No siree.

He'd probably enjoy the company. If you warn him in advance, he'll make sure he's wearing his special occasion pectoral cross. It's blingier than his everyday one.

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Reply 29

TheKingOfTSR

13

Original post by The Angry Stoic

Imagine if I asked you who invented Islam.

I would would give you the Quran.

Reply 30

TheKingOfTSR

13

Original post by greeneyedgirl

No-one invented Christianity.

Paul.
Paul did.?

Reply 31

The Angry Stoic

18

Original post by TheKingOfTSR

I would would give you the Quran.

That's not a who. If you know the answer of who you think invented Islam that's who Christians think invented Christianity.

Reply 32

TheKingOfTSR

13

Original post by The Angry Stoic

That's not a who. If you know the answer of who you think invented Islam that's who Christians think invented Christianity.

God.
Christianity has doctrines that cannot be guaranteed to be revealed from Jesus, so some doctrines are man made.

'For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ' - this can be a lie?

There are huge reasons why Paul didn't want Christianity the way it was - not double standards on my part - criticizing a Christian disciple but not an Islamic prophet...

Anyway you are not Christian - I was asking a Christian!

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 33

Mazzini

16

Original post by IMakeSenseToNone

Arguing theology on the internet counts as useful now? Squeet! If only my college professor's who got my work late thought so :lol:

more useful than what I do... :tongue:

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Reply 34

greeneyedgirl

19

Original post by TheKingOfTSR

Paul.
Paul did.?

No he didn't.

Original post by TheKingOfTSR

God.
Christianity has doctrines that cannot be guaranteed to be revealed from Jesus, so some doctrines are man made.

'For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ' - this can be a lie?

There are huge reasons why Paul didn't want Christianity the way it was - not double standards on my part - criticizing a Christian disciple but not an Islamic prophet...

Anyway you are not Christian - I was asking a Christian!

Please read the passage again. And then read the verses after it to. It's talking about Paul's conversion which happened because he saw Jesus risen from the dead.Therefore the gospel came to him not through man but through God. Which tbh is even better than it coming through man.

Reply 35

TheKingOfTSR

13

Original post by greeneyedgirl

No he didn't.

It's talking about Paul's conversion which happened because he saw Jesus risen from the dead.Therefore the gospel came to him not through man but through God.

Okay

Reply 36

The Angry Stoic

18

Original post by TheKingOfTSR

God.
Christianity has doctrines that cannot be guaranteed to be revealed from Jesus, so some doctrines are man made.

'For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ' - this can be a lie?

There are huge reasons why Paul didn't want Christianity the way it was - not double standards on my part - criticizing a Christian disciple but not an Islamic prophet...

Anyway you are not Christian - I was asking a Christian!

God is the answer any Christian will give. That's a big thing about being Christian.

Reply 37

TheKingOfTSR

13

What are Gospels? Are they books that preach Christian doctrines?

Reply 38

navarre

20

Original post by TheKingOfTSR

God.
Christianity has doctrines that cannot be guaranteed to be revealed from Jesus, so some doctrines are man made.

'For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ' - this can be a lie?

There are huge reasons why Paul didn't want Christianity the way it was - not double standards on my part - criticizing a Christian disciple but not an Islamic prophet...

Anyway you are not Christian - I was asking a Christian!

Christianity does indeed have doctrines that didn't come from Jesus. But, why is that a bad thing? The rich traditions of the many churches usually have no Biblical mandate, but that doesn't necessarily make them sinful. So long as we have received the grace of Christ and His salvation, anything else is simply immaterial.

Reply 39

greeneyedgirl

19

Original post by TheKingOfTSR

What are Gospels? Are they books that preach Christian doctrines?

Gospel means "Good News", the 4 Gospels are Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and they preach Jesus' life, death, resurrection and hence obviously His teachings and miracles etc.

D&D Theology's "Ask About Christianity" Thread MKII

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