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#81
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#81
(Original post by munchen102)
Yes i agree with your Low part there. I was very disappointed last year in the Euros when he didnt take advantage of the depth of the squad. (Gotze, Reus, Schurrle etc) and keep basically the same team (bar Podolski) through out. Schweinsteiger and Muller had poor tournaments and still he didnt change. The bench is there to be used and all three of those players mentioned can change a game.

My pick for the defence would be Lahm - Hummels - Badstuber/Howedes - Schmelzer. No Mertesacker or Boeteng. In midfield i'd like to see a Gundogan - Schweinsteiger partnership. Khedira is good but doesnt offer enough at the attacking end IMO.

I can see Germany winning it but the can't afford to have anymore heartless performances like against Italy last year. An interesting fact though, a European team has never won the WC in South America...
Regarding that last point, that's why I'd place my bet on Argentina, but you'll never know. Before 2010, no European team had ever won a tournament out side of Europe... which changed with Spain.

I do believe that, for the sake of his overall football ideas and philosophy with the national team, he should step down if Germany does not get the title. The DFB already suggested they might want to keep Löw even if he doesn't win, but to be honest, that would give his critics too much breeding ground. He's been criticised so much already and if he stayed head coach after losing next year, any form of justification for his philosophy is lost. Which is something I'd like to a void since I'm a fan of the switch in German football Klinsmann/Löw brought about and his tactics in general, I just think he's not the man to pull it through. If I'd be him or the DFB, I'd look out for someone who follows the same school of thought so that a change in personell can be done without a change in philosophy. Klopp, if you ever leave Dortmund...

(Original post by Zürich)
Cant understand your logic here. Schweinsteiger plays with Martinez, an out and out DM, who compliments his gae perfectly and similarly Gundogan with S.Bender who is also an out and out DM. Gundogan/Schweini are much too similar to play together, and no way is Gundogan going to be picked ahead of Schweini....

Lars Bender + Schweinsteiger is the dream combo imo, or Khedira and Schweini.


Also Podolski is acknowledged to be extremely positive for the moral of the team as one of the most popular players so I think he'll be in the squad. He's normally done the business for Germany anyway so I'm sure he'll be in the squad. Great goal scoring record in a team very short on strikers of course too.

Neuer
Lahm Howedes Hummels Schmelzer
Bender Schweinsteiger
Muller Ozil Reus
Klose
No Götze? How?

You are right, as long as Löw is the coach, Poldi will always be in the squad. Playing him as a starter hasn't always been justified, though. Also I'm not sure whether a future coach will be as faithful to him as Löw has been.

As for the midfield combo, I'm quite content with Schweinsteiger/Khedira. I'd personally be thrilled to see Gündogan/Khedira a bit more, which will only happen in friendlies since those are the ones Schweini never attends and, as you said, Löw won't pick Gündo over Bastian in tournaments. What one has to consider, though, is that Bastian has been quite injury-prone in recent years, so rotating would do him good.
As for the future, I'm all for Bender / Gündogan. Hope it happens.
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Zürich
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#82
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#82
(Original post by qua)
Regarding that last point, that's why I'd place my bet on Argentina, but you'll never know. Before 2010, no European team had ever won a tournament out side of Europe... which changed with Spain.

I do believe that, for the sake of his overall football ideas and philosophy with the national team, he should step down if Germany does not get the title. The DFB already suggested they might want to keep Löw even if he doesn't win, but to be honest, that would give his critics too much breeding ground. He's been criticised so much already and if he stayed head coach after losing next year, any form of justification for his philosophy is lost. Which is something I'd like to a void since I'm a fan of the switch in German football Klinsmann/Löw brought about and his tactics in general, I just think he's not the man to pull it through. If I'd be him or the DFB, I'd look out for someone who follows the same school of thought so that a change in personell can be done without a change in philosophy. Klopp, if you ever leave Dortmund...


No Götze? How?

You are right, as long as Löw is the coach, Poldi will always be in the squad. Playing him as a starter hasn't always been justified, though. Also I'm not sure whether a future coach will be as faithful to him as Löw has been.

As for the midfield combo, I'm quite content with Schweinsteiger/Khedira. I'd personally thrilled to see Gündogan/Khedira a bit more, which will only happen in friendlies since those are the ones Schweini never attends and, as you said, Löw won't pick him over Bastian in tournaments. What one has to consider, though, is that Bastian has been quite injury-prone in recent years, so rotating would do him good.
As for the future, I'm all for Bender / Gündogan. Hope it happens.
Meh, Gotze is well overrated imo. Reus/Muller/Ozil would be an unbelievably effective midfield and hard to think who you can drop for Gotze really. Even for BVB I always thought Reus was the more effective and impressive player, for me Reus must start from now on but I can understand if he doesnt as the competition is unbelievable. Muller is not everyone's cup of tea but he's experienced and tends to produce in big games.

Personally I'd have Toni Kroos above Gotze even, maybe even Draxler is he steps up this season once again.

Schwesinteiger for me is the first name on the teamsheet, absolutely world class player. Saw him live vs Arsenal last season and words cant describe how big of an influence he had on Bayern. Even Gundogan is not in the same class.
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munchen102
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Zürich)
Meh, Gotze is well overrated imo. Reus/Muller/Ozil would be an unbelievably effective midfield and hard to think who you can drop for Gotze really. Even for BVB I always thought Reus was the more effective and impressive player, for me Reus must start from now on but I can understand if he doesnt as the competition is unbelievable. Muller is not everyone's cup of tea but he's experienced and tends to produce in big games.

Personally I'd have Toni Kroos above Gotze even, maybe even Draxler is he steps up this season once again.

Schwesinteiger for me is the first name on the teamsheet, absolutely world class player. Saw him live vs Arsenal last season and words cant describe how big of an influence he had on Bayern. Even Gundogan is not in the same class.
The point of Gundogan/Schweini - Scweinsteiger with Guardiola is going to be that 1 holding midfielder for the team when they play 4-1-4-1, and will tend to take a more defensive responsibility. Heynches done it a lot with Kroos-Schweinsteiger, giving a more attacking role to Kroos. I understand they're similar players but they're are the two best CM Germany have got. I do concede that maybe a more defensive option would be safer (Bender-Khedira).

I do agree with you that Schweinsteiger first on the team sheet. Midfield general. Controls the whole game. Doesn't get as much credit as he deserved. Definately one of the best midfielders in the world. (And I mean top 5).

I wouldn't say Gotze's over rated, there has been a lot of hype with the big move but with Dortmund he was a touch of class. Draxler not quite there(yet) and Kroos is a different type of player. There should be a fair rotation in that position. The competition would only help them.


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Deshi
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#84
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#84
A bit late but...

Miroslav Klose you absolute legend :adore:

Equal with Muller :sogood:
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Zürich
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Deshi)
A bit late but...

Miroslav Klose you absolute legend :adore:

Equal with Muller :sogood:
Fair play to Klose, but Muller did it in 62 games whereas Klose has taken 129...

Also Muller was 398 in 453 @ Bayern.

Muller's still the target for any German striker imo
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Deshi
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#86
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#86
(Original post by Zürich)
Fair play to Klose, but Muller did it in 62 games whereas Klose has taken 129...

Also Muller was 398 in 453 @ Bayern.

Muller's still the target for any German striker imo
True but that doesn't take away too much from the feat of scoring 68 goals for your country imo. His longevity on the international scene is astounding and his consistent goalscoring performances at the big tournaments. Has to be applauded.
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9MmBulletz
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#87
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#87
(Original post by qua)
Regarding that last point, that's why I'd place my bet on Argentina, but you'll never know. Before 2010, no European team had ever won a tournament out side of Europe... which changed with Spain.

I do believe that, for the sake of his overall football ideas and philosophy with the national team, he should step down if Germany does not get the title. The DFB already suggested they might want to keep Löw even if he doesn't win, but to be honest, that would give his critics too much breeding ground. He's been criticised so much already and if he stayed head coach after losing next year, any form of justification for his philosophy is lost. Which is something I'd like to a void since I'm a fan of the switch in German football Klinsmann/Löw brought about and his tactics in general, I just think he's not the man to pull it through. If I'd be him or the DFB, I'd look out for someone who follows the same school of thought so that a change in personell can be done without a change in philosophy. Klopp, if you ever leave Dortmund...


No Götze? How?

You are right, as long as Löw is the coach, Poldi will always be in the squad. Playing him as a starter hasn't always been justified, though. Also I'm not sure whether a future coach will be as faithful to him as Löw has been.

As for the midfield combo, I'm quite content with Schweinsteiger/Khedira. I'd personally be thrilled to see Gündogan/Khedira a bit more, which will only happen in friendlies since those are the ones Schweini never attends and, as you said, Löw won't pick Gündo over Bastian in tournaments. What one has to consider, though, is that Bastian has been quite injury-prone in recent years, so rotating would do him good.
As for the future, I'm all for Bender / Gündogan. Hope it happens.
No, this won't happen.
DeMichelis and Colocinni or whatever defenders they have are slow and will get exposed especially by fast teams (Germany and Brazil). De Michelis and Van Buyten were the main reason why Bayern were not going to win the Champions League in 2010

At least Brazil have reasonably reliable (and quick) defenders between Silva, Luiz (from time to time) and Dante.

I honestly think the teams in prime contention for this World Cup are Brazil (haven't lost at home for 50 years), Germany and Spain. Brazil are a very quick team all over the pitch, with boundless energy, while Germany and Spain are littered with world class talent in midfield. Gundogan, Schweine, Isco, Iniesta, Reus, Fabregas. I could go on for days. I do worry with Spain defensiively as I think Pique is not that great a defender. Ramos has the aggression and mentality while Pique seems far more concerned of John Terry's proximity to his wife.
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Mastermind`
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Zürich)
Havent seen them yet but seen the highlights, Max kruse is definitely a candidate for the national team starter at the WC though. Good to see Nordtveit doing well too, great DM he is.
I remember when big things were expected from Nordtveit all those years ago (or was it just Football Manager?), he scored a comical own goal in Gladbach's last game. Still only 23, he's in a good team to develop.
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Vae
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#89
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#89
(Original post by 9MmBulletz)
I honestly think the teams in prime contention for this World Cup are Brazil (haven't lost at home for 50 years), Germany and Spain. Brazil are a very quick team all over the pitch, with boundless energy, while Germany and Spain are littered with world class talent in midfield. Gundogan, Schweine, Isco, Iniesta, Reus, Fabregas. I could go on for days. I do worry with Spain defensiively as I think Pique is not that great a defender. Ramos has the aggression and mentality while Pique seems far more concerned of John Terry's proximity to his wife.
Brazil has improved in comparison with last year, but still don't look too threatening imo. Given that they probably will improve a bit by next year and are playing at home, I can see them winning, but wouldn't call them top favourites.As for Spain's defense - Pique/Ramos partnership is quite promising, actually. Pique isn't bad either, he just has been off form since 2011 or something, which in my eyes is thanks to a lack of competition. He will always be a starter at Barca, unless they finally buy a new defender (which they have failed to do for years). Or unless Puyol manages to be injury-free for the whole season and he has to compete for a place with Mascherano (who has been Barca's best defender this season so far). He just has no reason to work hard right now.

But anyways, I wouldn't complain if Germany got it. Great team with a ridiculous amount of talent, would be a shame if they didn't manage to get a title in the next 5 years.

(Original post by Deshi)
True but that doesn't take away too much from the feat of scoring 68 goals for your country imo. His longevity on the international scene is astounding and his consistent goalscoring performances at the big tournaments. Has to be applauded.
I remember seeing him in the 2002 world cup, becoming a fan and thinking, "what a guy, too bad he probably won't be in more than one future world cup". Had I known back then what I know today...

(Original post by Zürich)
Meh, Gotze is well overrated imo. Reus/Muller/Ozil would be an unbelievably effective midfield and hard to think who you can drop for Gotze really. Even for BVB I always thought Reus was the more effective and impressive player, for me Reus must start from now on but I can understand if he doesnt as the competition is unbelievable. Muller is not everyone's cup of tea but he's experienced and tends to produce in big games.

Personally I'd have Toni Kroos above Gotze even, maybe even Draxler is he steps up this season once again.

Schwesinteiger for me is the first name on the teamsheet, absolutely world class player. Saw him live vs Arsenal last season and words cant describe how big of an influence he had on Bayern. Even Gundogan is not in the same class.
Götze is overrated insofar that some people confuse potential or talent with the actual performance. Saying he is one of the best players in the world right now, which some do, is wrong, because he isn't, at least not yet. In my eyes he does have the potential to be, though. And I liked him at Dortmund, especially in combination with Reus. Plus, given his young age, I think he's a very mature player, on the pitch that is.

As for Reus, he is one of my favourite players. I prefer him over Götze too, but that doesn't have to mean anything considering that I just don't like Götze so much, off the pitch. Reus is just a beast. There is a reason why Real wanted him for 50 million... Could be a bit more determined at times, but that might improve as he gets more experienced. And I love the Reus-Özil link up, their chemistry on the pitch is just brilliant and Özil seems to shine even more than usual when playing next to him.

I haven't really made up my mind about Müller. He is hard to figure out, somehow. I liked him in 2010, hated him in 2012, and this year I'm back to liking him again. Similarly, I liked him under Jupp Henyckes, but not so much under Pep Guardiola, even though it is too early to tell now. Overall, I'm quite happy with Reus - Özil - Müller, but the Reus/Götze chemistry was too good to not make use of it.

It will be interesting to see how Löw will make use of all the talents at his disposal, and if he will dare to integrate Kruse and Draxler as starters in the WC squad.
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Zürich
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#90
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#90
Was at the Allianz Arena today for the Hannover match. Wasn't great tbh, and Guardiola has basically turned an unbeatable, perfectly balanced team into one that would do well to win the Bundesliga this time, but what a ****ing stadium. Not as good an atmosphere as others in Germany but nice to stand for 90 minuted with a pint of world class beer watching some world class footballers
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419
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Zürich)
Was at the Allianz Arena today for the Hannover match. Wasn't great tbh, and Guardiola has basically turned an unbeatable, perfectly balanced team into one that would do well to win the Bundesliga this time, but what a ****ing stadium. Not as good an atmosphere as others in Germany but nice to stand for 90 minuted with a pint of world class beer watching some world class footballers
This.

The swiftness at which he's ruined them is amazing.

Think we all have to rethink our prediction that they'll walk away with the Bundesliga for the next couple of years.
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CB91
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#92
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#92
Guardiola's managed them for half a dozen games, talk about an over reaction. :facepalm2:
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Zürich
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#93
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#93
(Original post by CB91)
Guardiola's managed them for half a dozen games, talk about an over reaction. :facepalm2:
If it aint broke dont fix it. Speaking to some Bayern fans as well, they are far from convinced at why Schweinsteiger, and even Lahm ffs, is sitting alone in the middle of the pitch when Martinez, the best DM in the world and someone who works in perfect tandem in a 4-2-3-1 is on the bench. Today Lahm was in that position again on his own, what's that about? Its not as if 3 of Kroos/Ribery/Robben/Gotze/Thiago/Muller arent creative enough without sticking a 4th in and leaving a RB, who is physically very weak, alone to cover them? Lahm is just lost man, he's not used to having to cover so much space and 360 degree space at that.

Obviously, Guardiola has made changes just for the sake of it. It is not good management to do that, far from it. He's basically hoping that Lahm somehow manages to learn an entirely new position and then claim some kind of insight for it. Egotistical rather than professional.
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WhatamIdoing
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#94
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#94
(Original post by CB91)
Guardiola's managed them for half a dozen games, talk about an over reaction. :facepalm2:
It would be fair to give him a little bit more time, but they really don't look the same as they did under Heynckes. I don't know if it's him trying to instil a new philosophy or what, but some of the personnel choices in certain positions is a bit weird to say the least. I can't say I understand the constant use of Lahm at DM? Rafinha doesn't offer anything Lahm doesn't and Lahm at DM doesn't offer anything Martinez doesn't, so I am kinda confused.
Although tbf, I haven't really kept up with injury record so maybe injuries, with the loss of Gustavo as well led to him being deployed there?
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Zürich
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#95
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#95
(Original post by 419)
This.

The swiftness at which he's ruined them is amazing.

Think we all have to rethink our prediction that they'll walk away with the Bundesliga for the next couple of years.
Watched BVB afterwards and they're just getting on with it. As balanced as ever and so long as the CL doesnt distract them too much then I think they have a great chance. They'll get the better of FCB in the head to heads as well.

If Guardiola is smart he'll bring back the 4-2-3-1 before he's pressured into it because he'd look a complete idiot then.

(Original post by WhatamIdoing)
It would be fair to give him a little bit more time, but they really don't look the same as they did under Heynckes. I don't know if it's him trying to instil a new philosophy or what, but some of the personnel choices in certain positions is a bit weird to say the least. I can't say I understand the constant use of Lahm at DM? Rafinha doesn't offer anything Lahm doesn't and Lahm at DM doesn't offer anything Martinez doesn't, so I am kinda confused.
Although tbf, I haven't really kept up with injury record so maybe injuries, with the loss of Gustavo as well led to him being deployed there?
Lahm was playing DM weeks before Gustavo left and Martinez/Schweini have both been benched at various stages. It's just bizarre and as far as I can see FCB are no more creative with an extra attacking midfielder either as it takes them so much longer to win the ball back and even when they do there's not enough space up front.
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TheInvincibles14
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#96
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#96
The main problem is that Bayern have too many chefs in the kitchen. They should not have bought both Gotze and Thiago. Definitely agree that Pep is changing for the sake of moulding his own team but it's not needed, Heynckes perfected the system so why not keep it and make minor adjustments instead of all these major tactical changes. Such a baffling situation tbh. Would also make BVB favourites for the league at this stage, will be interesting if they can maintain a challenge in both the CL and the league, in the last few years it's been one or the other for Klopp.
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munchen102
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#97
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#97
Martinez has just had groin surgery the other week there and still isn't match fit yetand the same for Schweinsteiger at the moment. I think he plays Lahm in there as he is one of the most intelligent footballers around. And can sit back and watch the play develop in front of him. Although when Martinez/Schweinsteiger are match fit I'd go back to the 2 holding midfielders.

Last years team was great and we all know it. But as a manager you need to make a mark on the team and that's what his changes are about. Right now they might seem odd while everyone is still adjusting but come next season or the next, the changes won't seem so obscure when everyone is in his state of mind.


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Vae
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#98
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#98
(Original post by munchen102)
Right now they might seem odd while everyone is still adjusting but come next season or the next, the changes won't seem so obscure when everyone is in his state of mind.
True, they still need time. But that doesn't mean that the end result (which we will see maybe next season, or the one after that) will be equally good as, let alone better than Heynckes' Bayern. (Personally, I don't think Barca 2.0 with Bayern players is better than Bayern with Heynckes tactics, but we will see). It could still be that his tactics won't work at all. Plus, it remains to be seen if Pep will even have enough time to get the system running. Bayern doesn't keep coaches for long if they don't win the title for more than one season.

Right now at least, they don't look like the favourites, at least to such an extent as last year. With that beast mode Dortmund is currently in I can see them beat Bayern, and win the Bundesliga. Dortmund looks even stronger than last year. Their attack is just exquisite.
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munchen102
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#99
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#99
(Original post by qua)
True, they still need time. But that doesn't mean that the end result (which we will see maybe next season, or the one after that) will be equally good as, let alone better than Heynckes' Bayern. (Personally, I don't think Barca 2.0 with Bayern players is better than Bayern with Heynckes tactics, but we will see). It could still be that his tactics won't work at all. Plus, it remains to be seen if Pep will even have enough time to get the system running. Bayern doesn't keep coaches for long if they don't win the title for more than one season.

Right now at least, they don't look like the favourites, at least to such an extent as last year. With that beast mode Dortmund is currently in I can see them beat Bayern, and win the Bundesliga. Dortmund looks even stronger than last year. Their attack is just exquisite.
Yeah i can see where youre coming from but Pep is a high calibre manager and the Bayern bosses must have expected a 'hick-up' period where everything still is to settle in. I don't see what everyone is so critical of anyway, he lost against Dortmund with a huge amount of bad fortune (Starke's **** up, and Van Buyten's og) and a minor slip up against Freiburg. Dortmund lacks depth and thats what will cost them. Sahin and Kuba are probably there best bench players (assuming they play Mkhitaryan and Aubameyang). On their day they're as good as Bayern but its a marathon not a sprint and with them also being in the CL i think the games will catch up on them. That being said (i do believe and hope Bayern win the league) but there is still a few bumps to be ironed out in the Bayern camp.
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jam277
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#100
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#100
(Original post by munchen102)
Martinez has just had groin surgery the other week there and still isn't match fit yetand the same for Schweinsteiger at the moment. I think he plays Lahm in there as he is one of the most intelligent footballers around. And can sit back and watch the play develop in front of him. Although when Martinez/Schweinsteiger are match fit I'd go back to the 2 holding midfielders.

Last years team was great and we all know it. But as a manager you need to make a mark on the team and that's what his changes are about. Right now they might seem odd while everyone is still adjusting but come next season or the next, the changes won't seem so obscure when everyone is in his state of mind.


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Good point, remember that barca didn't start great under guardiola too. I think his high intensity possession game will take time to adapt.
But personally I think that he should play on the counter for european games as that's where their main strengths lie, as thiago and gotze integrate into the team by all means play a possession game, but not yet. I guess his reasoning isn't a win at all costs type, but more of a plan for the future and you can see that by the players he has gone and bought that this is a 3 year plan and an attempt to sustain success.

I hope pep does well, I think he'll win the title again, but will probably lose out in the DFB-pokal and the CL.
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