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    What makes a university a troller ?

    How about setting grades too high knowing that you won't fill your quota ?

    Proof ? Have a look, how can a course that is bona fide AAA go into clearing ?

    Answer: it can't therefore it is not bona fide and should really be a ABB-AAB course.

    No surprise RG2's favourite sons are amongst the main suspects. Is this trolling ? You decide !

    http://www.manchester.ac.uk/undergra...bsc/fact-file/

    http://www.manchester.ac.uk/undergra...2013&plan=7808


    http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/students...w/law-llb.aspx
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    What the hell are you talking about?
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    What makes a university a troller ?

    How about setting grades too high knowing that you won't fill your quota ?

    Proof ? Have a look, how can a course that is bona fide AAA go into clearing ?

    Answer: it can't therefore it is not bona fide and should really be a ABB-AAB course.
    Are you saying that if a course asks for AAA and does not fill the places prior to tomorrow then there is a problem with the university?

    If so - how have you made that leap
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    yeah it's pretty hilarious how Sheffield have dropped the requirements from AAA to ABB for some courses, they do it in order to raise their subject ranking i believe
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    (Original post by Table dust)
    yeah it's pretty hilarious how Sheffield have dropped the requirements from AAA to ABB for some courses, they do it in order to raise their subject ranking i believe
    Exactly my point.

    Therefore the subject and by extension the university rank must be severely questioned.

    IOW: bogus !
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    (Original post by Table dust)
    yeah it's pretty hilarious how Sheffield have dropped the requirements from AAA to ABB for some courses, they do it in order to raise their subject ranking i believe

    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    Exactly my point.

    Therefore the subject and by extension the university rank must be severely questioned.

    IOW: bogus !
    Ranking is determined by various things, some league tables weight student satisfaction more heavily, others the quality of the institutions research output. NOT by how many students attend, or what entry requirements they have. Sheffield will have dropped their requirements to ABB+ in Clearing as there are no government imposed limits on the number of students the university can take if they acheive ABB or higher. More A level students will acheive ABB than they will say AAA, and hence, lowering the entry requirements for those coming via clearing, means the university is much more likely to completely fill all of the places for a particular course. For much the same reason are the entry requirements for Cambridge generally A*AA, enough people get A*AA or higher so that they can fill all of their places.

    </rant>
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    (Original post by .snowflake.)
    Ranking is determined by various things, some league tables weight student satisfaction more heavily, others the quality of the institutions research output. NOT by how many students attend, or what entry requirements they have. Sheffield will have dropped their requirements to ABB+ in Clearing as there are no government imposed limits on the number of students the university can take if they acheive ABB or higher. More A level students will acheive ABB than they will say AAA, and hence, lowering the entry requirements for those coming via clearing, means the university is much more likely to completely fill all of the places for a particular course. For much the same reason are the entry requirements for Cambridge generally A*AA, enough people get A*AA or higher so that they can fill all of their places.

    </rant>
    i discussed the matter with a university lecturer during an open day, some subject rankings such as the complete university guide use entry requirements as a parameter. it doesn't hurt to raise entry requirements given the existence of clearing as it improves the departments chances of improving their rank position

    you have missed the premise of the thread and written an unnecessary rant
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    (Original post by .snowflake.)
    Ranking is determined by various things, some league tables weight student satisfaction more heavily, others the quality of the institutions research output. NOT by how many students attend, or what entry requirements they have. Sheffield will have dropped their requirements to ABB+ in Clearing as there are no government imposed limits on the number of students the university can take if they acheive ABB or higher. More A level students will acheive ABB than they will say AAA, and hence, lowering the entry requirements for those coming via clearing, means the university is much more likely to completely fill all of the places for a particular course. For much the same reason are the entry requirements for Cambridge generally A*AA, enough people get A*AA or higher so that they can fill all of their places.

    </rant>
    Nooo.

    Entry requirements at the moment are taken by the papers as what is advertised from the get go.

    What it does not account for is if the places can be filled realistically which is the whole point of this thread.

    Some universities have falsely put up grades (with very little hope of filing places until clearing perhaps) to boost their ranks. Simple. By doing this they are clearly disadvantaging students whic could have a very negative impact on them.
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    A lot of universities that would normally not be in clearing are offering a wide range of courses at ABB+ in clearing this year.

    I believe it's not a deliberate attempt to upset students. A things have changed in recent years- tuition fees have gone up, caps on students of ABB and above have been removed, and adjustment has been introduced. This means that universities are struggling to accurately estimate the number of students who will apply, the number of students who will firm, the number of students who will take up an insurance place, and so on. They also have to account for students chosing to change courses via adjustment, too.

    It's hard to make predictions based on data from previous years when so much has changed fairly quickly. Basically, this seems to mean a lot of universities have ended up with spare places. If a course has places available, they usually want to fill them all if they can, as having empty spaces means a loss of money for the university, so they go into clearing. However, there's not going to be many AAA students in clearing so they have to put the requirements down.

    I am going to speculate that due to the lack of caps on high achieving students, some of these universities are no longer attracting the caliber of students they once did- i.e. student who just miss out on an offer for an absolute top university- as more of these are being offered places at universities they may have put down as their "aspirational" choice. Also, lower numbers are applying overall. Over the next few years, their entry requirements may go down again. I don't think this is because they are trying to fiddle league tables or trolling. I think it's because they haven't quite kept up with a changed university system.
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    the university knows what kind of applicants it will have.

    the RG2 knows that AAA will not put them down as 1st or 2nd choice.

    So the only conclusion I have is to save face and boost their rankings - they put up falsely high grades.

    No one can deny this since it is proved by the markedly lower grades they offer in clearing ( when they suddenly admit that they are not a AAA level university)

    That's all. end of, the fact that so many people invest emotions in this shows what the real (and malevolent) intent of the RG2 and their student/ followers are
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    (Original post by Table dust)
    i discussed the matter with a university lecturer during an open day, some subject rankings such as the complete university guide use entry requirements as a parameter. it doesn't hurt to raise entry requirements given the existence of clearing as it improves the departments chances of improving their rank position

    you have missed the premise of the thread and written an unnecessary rant
    In crude terms; bogus entry requirements .....
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    (Original post by Table dust)
    i discussed the matter with a university lecturer during an open day, some subject rankings such as the complete university guide use entry requirements as a parameter. it doesn't hurt to raise entry requirements given the existence of clearing as it improves the departments chances of improving their rank position

    you have missed the premise of the thread and written an unnecessary rant
    Does that literally take entry requirements into the ranking or does it look at grades of those who actually start a course?

    If it's the former then it's the fault of the ranking, not unis. And if the latter, what they put on their website as "entry requirement" doesn't matter.
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    the university knows what kind of applicants it will have.

    the RG2 knows that AAA will not put them down as 1st or 2nd choice.

    So the only conclusion I have is to save face and boost their rankings - they put up falsely high grades.

    No one can deny this since it is proved by the markedly lower grades they offer in clearing ( when they suddenly admit that they are not a AAA level university)

    That's all. end of, the fact that so many people invest emotions in this shows what the real (and malevolent) intent of the RG2 and their student/ followers are
    I have no investment whatsover in "RG2" universities. I don't (and have never) attended one or work for one. I do however have some insight into the admissions process thanks to manning the clearing line at my own university last year. I don't actually completely disagree with you- some universities may list their standard offer slightly higher than it actually is to try and attract applicants expecting those grades.

    I disagree that the university knows exactly what applicants they will have. In previous years (when quotas applied to all students) plenty of AAA students would miss offers at the very top flight of universities, as these universities would just not have the places to offer them on competative courses.

    Now there are less restrictions on the number of ABB+ students they can take, I have the suspicion that some very top flight universities are accepting more straight A students, so they are rejecting their offers from universities slightly down the ladder.

    These universities may also be more likely to accept a student with an offer of AAA who missed their grades by one grade than they were in the past, as they are not so tightly constrained by quotas.

    There are also less applicants overall, due to the higher tuition fees.

    I think it's more likely that the universities with lots of places in clearing have made a mistake. There's no way this was their intention. For a top 20/30 uni, going into clearing with a lot of courses indicates a university is unpopular, and is way more damaging for their prestige than having AAB entry requirements, rather than AAA, and being a few places lower down the league tables.
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    (Original post by Zenomorph)
    the university knows what kind of applicants it will have.

    the RG2 knows that AAA will not put them down as 1st or 2nd choice.

    So the only conclusion I have is to save face and boost their rankings - they put up falsely high grades.

    No one can deny this since it is proved by the markedly lower grades they offer in clearing ( when they suddenly admit that they are not a AAA level university)

    That's all. end of, the fact that so many people invest emotions in this shows what the real (and malevolent) intent of the RG2 and their student/ followers are
    malevolent is overstating it imo. What do you think you'd do differently if you were a vice chancellor under the present system?
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    malevolent is overstating it imo. What do you think you'd do differently if you were a vice chancellor under the present system?
    It's a question that is already answered by the varying attitudes of different universities.

    The top 3/4 will present requirements as is; accurately. If Imperial asks for A*A*A for physics then very likely that they will get plenty of such applicants.

    The university knows what kind of applicants it will have.

    The RG2 knows that AAA will not put them down as 1st or 2nd choice.

    So to save face and boost their rankings - they put up falsely high grades.

    this is negative and destructive as effectively what they are trying to do is to block AAB/ABB applicants when there are plenty of spaces for them.

    In essence it is a BS fantasy on the part of these universities to boost themselves, it is denying otherwise qualified applicants. Patently the market has spoken and said they are NOT AAA institutions.

    Contrast to other like Bath, Lancaster, UEA, Lboro who advertise slightly lower entry grades at the outset. But in effect when accounting for clearing they will be on a par with RG2 when the grades will be forced down.

    this is a much more honest approach Litle wonder they are rising up the ranks at the expense of RG2.
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    The program I want to study has BBB requirements for Manchester...
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    What exactly is "RG2"? Russell Group 2, I get that, but why 2?
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    Most universities have struggled to accurately recruit this year, due to a number of changes, including
    - ABB+ student number controls making it far harder to plan
    - grade deflation meaning more students are missing their offers
    - fewer applicants due to fee rises
    - fewer applicants because there are fewer 18 year olds around

    The fact that we have seen many RG unis in Clearing this year is not an indication that they are in some way trying to annoy applicants. They've simply found that they have spare places due to the above factors.

    (Original post by danny111)
    Does that literally take entry requirements into the ranking or does it look at grades of those who actually start a course?

    If it's the former then it's the fault of the ranking, not unis. And if the latter, what they put on their website as "entry requirement" doesn't matter.
    They take the average UCAS points of people who actually start the course. This includes things like general studies and pony care qualifications, so it's fairly meaningless for the most part anyway.

    (Original post by Airfairy)
    What exactly is "RG2"? Russell Group 2, I get that, but why 2?
    I've never heard the term either. I think OP had made it up tbh.

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    (Original post by Airfairy)
    What exactly is "RG2"? Russell Group 2, I get that, but why 2?
    Yeah, that's my question too. Do you mean "second-rate" RG unis?
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    So what exactly is RG2?
 
 
 
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