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    Hi everyone,

    i really want to study law, but my as levels were not as expected!
    English lit: A
    philosophy and ethics: A
    History:C
    geography:C

    My original plan was to drop geog or p+e as history is generally the more well regarded a level, but getting a c has made me lose hope a bit. What should I do?!
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    (Original post by whipp1996)
    Hi everyone,

    i really want to study law, but my as levels were not as expected!
    English lit: A
    philosophy and ethics: A
    History:C
    geography:C

    My original plan was to drop geog or p+e as history is generally the more well regarded a level, but getting a c has made me lose hope a bit. What should I do?!
    History is pretty good for a law degree as it's quite essay based. Why don't you drop geography and carry on with the other 3?
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    (Original post by whipp1996)
    Hi everyone,

    i really want to study law, but my as levels were not as expected!
    English lit: A
    philosophy and ethics: A
    History:C
    geography:C

    My original plan was to drop geog or p+e as history is generally the more well regarded a level, but getting a c has made me lose hope a bit. What should I do?!
    Hi whipp1996,

    The University of Derby's LLB Law course requires 300 UCAS points (which to my calculation you have A=120, A=120, C=80, C=80 = 400 UCAS points).

    Our Law School has had quite a few impressive statistics recently:


    • 92% overall satisfaction in the National Student Survey
    • Rated 95% for personal development
    • The Guardian (2012) also said we were voted as the 'most effective' in the UK


    If you have any questions at all, or are interested, please do not hesitate to get in touch with me on [email protected], or by calling our Clearing Hotline on 01332 59 2013.

    Many thanks, and best wishes,

    Joe Parker
    [email protected]
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    (Original post by Ecosse_14)
    History is pretty good for a law degree as it's quite essay based. Why don't you drop geography and carry on with the other 3?
    Thanks for the reply! I think I am going to do that, but I really wanted aaa and will I be able to get that still? I got b and c in the 2 history exams, wheras I go an a in geog in January
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    (Original post by whipp1996)
    Thanks for the reply! I think I am going to do that, but I really wanted aaa and will I be able to get that still? I got b and c in the 2 history exams, wheras I go an a in geog in January
    Note that geography is similarly essay-based, though I suppose history might be slightly more applicable since some laws may date back from periods which you'll have studied at A-level :beard:

    You could still get an A in History, though you might benefit from resitting your C grade, if you do the maths then you can work out what you'd need to achieve at A2 to still get the A
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    (Original post by University of Derby)
    [*]The Guardian (2012) also said we were voted as the 'most effective' in the UK[/LIST]
    Out of interest, what does 'most effective' mean in this context?
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    You could still get an A in History, though you might benefit from resitting your C grade, if you do the maths then you can work out what you'd need to achieve at A2 to still get the A
    Does you know about the policy on resitting next year? I can't do it in January, but if I do it in June is it unlikely that uni's will want to give me a place? It's all so confusing
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    (Original post by whipp1996)
    Does you know about the policy on resitting next year? I can't do it in January, but if I do it in June is it unlikely that uni's will want to give me a place? It's all so confusing
    I always thought that universities only discriminated against people who resat exams outside of their 2 years of study. I.e. if someone failed to make the grades with their A2 results and took an extra year to 'brush up' their grades, because they'd have had 3 years to get the same results as people competing with them, who'd only had 2 years of study.

    Whereas if you resit an exam within your 2 year A-level studies, then you're still doing the same number of exams in the same time period as everyone else, so you're not getting an advantage.

    I could be wrong though, it's been a few years now (only found out today that sending your paper back for a remark could end up getting you a lower grade :lolwut: ) - so definitely check with your school / your universities
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    I always thought that universities only discriminated against people who resat exams outside of their 2 years of study. I.e. if someone failed to make the grades with their A2 results and took an extra year to 'brush up' their grades, because they'd have had 3 years to get the same results as people competing with them, who'd only had 2 years of study.

    Whereas if you resit an exam within your 2 year A-level studies, then you're still doing the same number of exams in the same time period as everyone else, so you're not getting an advantage.

    I could be wrong though, it's been a few years now (only found out today that sending your paper back for a remark could end up getting you a lower grade :lolwut: ) - so definitely check with your school / your universities
    ok thanks for your help. I think I need to talk to my teachers and thinkor which would be the better choice for what to carry with next year
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    (Original post by whipp1996)
    ok thanks for your help. I think I need to talk to my teachers and thinkor which would be the better choice for what to carry with next year
    No problem, hope it all works out for you!

    And if you need any more help, you know where to find us :woo:
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    (Original post by blabbermonkey)
    The above is a disgusting attempt at massaging the truth that even a used car salesman would be ashamed of. No mention of the absolutely awful employment prospects on offer with a law degree from Derby yet happy to cheery-pick some figures to cover that omission up. You should be ashamed. If you can get A's in any subject then you're far better than Derby.
    Hi blabbermonkey,

    I'm sorry you've seen our message in that way.

    Our statistics are always those from independent research, for example those in my post were from the National Student Survey for the first two bullets, and The Guardian for the final bullet point.

    With regards to your comment about our employment prospects, Unistats (which base their statistics on various official sets of data, including the Key Information Set (KIS), and National Student Survey scores) rate our LLB Hons Law course as having 90% in employment or further study within six months of graduation:



    It's also worth mentioning that those in further study have gone on to do mostly a professional qualification, LPC, postgraduate diploma in legal practice, and also bar professional training courses. Law graduates of any university often cannot simply walk into a job within six months of graduation, without further training.

    Dependent on what your future career prospects are, Derby is an excellent choice to gain a career at home or abroad in private practice, local government, the Crown Prosecution Service, government departments, the courts, law centres, the police service, banking, commerce, industry, publishing or education.

    If you'd like more information on the credibility of any of these figures, feel free to look further:




    Or if you'd like any further information from myself, feel free to get in touch by sending me an email at [email protected]

    Kind regards,
    Joe Parker
    [email protected]
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    (Original post by blabbermonkey)
    Hello Joe,

    I am well aware that you have to do the LPC before you start work. How many of your law graduates last year had a training contract by the end of third year- that is really the determinant of how well regarded the law school is. How many people went to top 50 firms? How many secured pupillages? How many ended up self funding the LPC and not getting a training contract at all within 2 years of graduation? (I fear this number will be very high and you'll consequently avoid answering my questions or claim you have no data...)

    Of those you say are in employment, what kind of employment are they in? Graduate positions or just any job that doesn't even need a degree? I'm guessing from the fact you didn't use the word 'graduate' that it's the later. Do you not think some transparency about your figures would be the decent thing to do given the importance that this life decision has for young people?

    I look forward to your response with the information I've requested so that applicants and anyone else interested can have a full and transparent picture of the employment prospects offered by a Derby law degree.

    Thank you.
    Chillax dude.....Hes just posted some stuff and your bomb raiding him with questions.... If the op or other readers have a working brain, they will know not to base their options on a single post.....

    If they want to know more about what Derby offers, they will go on an open day or email/phone them about further details. Often stats are arbitrary. These are the same for EVERY university. And keeping up with students is often hit and miss, so obviously the sample should be taken with a pinch of salt, like every employment statistic you will see shown by every university.

    Anyways if your so interested, just go on the Unistats website. In a few secs i found 60% of their students sample were in a professional/managerial job. Whether or not the sample is a fair representative, we can ask that for every single stat out there on the website.
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    Out of interest, what does 'most effective' mean in this context?
    Hi Architecture-er,

    Thanks for your question.

    I've just had a small investigation as to what 'most effective' means, as it doesn't seem to be clearly defined on The Guardian's website.

    'Most effective' relates to 'Most effective teaching', which has been consistently scored excellent ratings in the National Student Survey. This is a title which comes from the 'Value Added Score'.

    I hope this helps.

    Joe Parker
    [email protected]
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    (Original post by blabbermonkey)
    The reason I've asked him such specific questions is because there is currently a significant problem with large numbers of law students particularly from ex-polytechnics struggling to get training contracts (how you become a solicitor). It annoys me how universities like Derby are not being honest about this and hide behind figures which they massage or word in such a way that it hides this fact. I appreciate you probably think I'm some nutjob but honestly I've seen too many of my friends struggle after having a degree sold to them by a university that then turns out not to have any hope of helping people to get where they want to be. My motivation is a positive one that is aimed at greater transparency for applicants so they don't find themselves in for a very unpleasant shock later down the line. If you want to be a solicitor or a barrister then a Derby law degree is something to be very wary of in my view. We'll see if Joe comes back with all the figures I've asked for. Somehow I don't think he will.
    Of course understandable. But in nearly every industry whether it be Banking, Engineering, Law the top firms go for the 'top industries' whether thats LSE, Oxbridge, Imperial etc due to their high rankings within the league table, therefore a perceived better graduate (Thats not to say someone from a mid table is much more employable).
    Any polytechnic would find it tough competing with them, to sell their students due to the universities having much more experience within the fields (Since polytechs i believe not offering these broad range of degree subjects)

    However i question whether many universities in fact follow up their students for that long of a period due to admin costs and other stuff which the professors and researcher have to do in the university. So i don't believe Joe will come back with the figures, but i reckon not many universities at all will either.

    Obviously there will be small amount of people who break beyond on what other students think they can do, like people from low end universities ending up creating/being in high end firms. businesses.

    In the end ol Joe has a job to do to persuade others to think about the University. However students these days are smart and have much easier access to information. If they want to break into the high end law firms, they can easily email the firm explaining their predicament. With a growing saturated market in industries like Law, all universities have an issue with employment but they still have a job to do, likewise for students in researching rigorously on their correct £27k+ investment.

    Though i agree to an extent about not enough information universities present, its very unpractical for both university and graduate to maintain communication about their job situation. I believe its mainly up to the student to do their research and inquiring to desired firms/industries about what they exactly want from graduates, and to see whether the university which they are looking at that offers it.
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    (Original post by University of Derby)
    Hi Architecture-er,

    Thanks for your question.

    I've just had a small investigation as to what 'most effective' means, as it doesn't seem to be clearly defined on The Guardian's website.

    'Most effective' relates to 'Most effective teaching', which has been consistently scored excellent ratings in the National Student Survey. This is a title which comes from the 'Value Added Score'.

    I hope this helps.

    Joe Parker
    [email protected]
    Hey Joe, thanks for your answer

    So is that based on the relative degree results compared to the average UMS scores per candidate (ie the most effective at raising a student's quality in a given time period) or related to staff/student ratios (ie the quality of teaching compared to similar universities with higher staff numbers)?

    What I mean is, in order to have the 'most effective teaching' doesn't that mean that you maintain a certain standard of education, despite some inhibiting factor that is overcome in order to make the teaching more effective than similar universities?

    I'm just interested because I'm Derby born & bred, and it was an interesting statistic that I haven't seen cropping up in league tables and the like
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    (Original post by blabbermonkey)
    I agree that Joe has a job to do and I appreciate he has to earn a living, but I do think some caveats should be put out there.
    Thank you for reply.

    Regardless of my job position, and my motives for working at the University of Derby, what has been posted here is valid and truthful - it is a student's duty to do their research on which university is best suited for them based on their career goals.

    Kind regards,

    Joe Parker
    [email protected]
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    (Original post by Architecture-er)
    Hey Joe, thanks for your answer

    So is that based on the relative degree results compared to the average UMS scores per candidate (ie the most effective at raising a student's quality in a given time period) or related to staff/student ratios (ie the quality of teaching compared to similar universities with higher staff numbers)?

    What I mean is, in order to have the 'most effective teaching' doesn't that mean that you maintain a certain standard of education, despite some inhibiting factor that is overcome in order to make the teaching more effective than similar universities?

    I'm just interested because I'm Derby born & bred, and it was an interesting statistic that I haven't seen cropping up in league tables and the like
    Hi Architecture-er,

    The title 'most effective' was awarded to us by The Guardian in 2012.

    Upon visiting the webpage for league tables in 2012 and ordering the Law subject table by 'value added', we appear third out of all UK universities.

    I believe the 'most effective' title is down to us being continually rated highly in this ranking.

    However, I didn't work for the University in 2012 to know the finer details.

    If you'd like further information, Kevin Bampton is our Head of Department who can be contacted directly at [email protected]

    Many thanks,

    Joe Parker
    [email protected]
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    (Original post by blabbermonkey)
    Excellent cop out there Joe- I think you've proven my point if you're not willing to publish any of the figures I asked for in a public space. I had hoped for a bit of integrity and a willingness to engage in order to provide potential applicants with access to a fuller picture of the career opportunities on offer but clearly you do not view that as a priority.
    Hi blabbermonkey,

    Sorry to hear you're having problems.

    At the University of Derby we carry a wide range of courses, and like in any large institution it would be difficult for me to hold every statistic we have on file.

    Regarding your comment about withholding information, we are unable to do so in accordance to the Freedom of Information Act.

    If you are looking to apply for any of our Law courses, and would like further information regarding specific statistics about employability upon graduation, please get in touch with our Head of Department, Kevin Bampton on 01332 591858 or by emailing him directly at [email protected]

    Kind regards,

    Joe Parker
    [email protected]
 
 
 
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