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which social class are you?

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Thud

yeah! they shouldn't be allowed to have children! They should simply chain themselves tothe bourgeois' machines and work work work. **** minimum wage, **** benefits, **** health and safety!

Your mum HAD to work at 16? oh boo hoo, my dad left school at 13 to work and was kicked out the house at 15. :rolleyes:

"give it trips abroad or other rewards if it commits crime" what the hell? You get trips abroad for committing crime? Are you sure you haven't been reading too much of the daily mail?

come out of your nice world cocoon..there are plenty of people in this country that are having children to claim extra benefit, and admit as much themselves. As the governments policies are aimed at those with lots of kids and low incomes, which encourages SOME (99% are genuine though) to abuse the system and just have children for the benefits.

and yes the government does give rewards for commiting crime and causing trouble. Like i live on the outskirts of Hull..and children who previously had truency problems, but improve there attendence get free mountian bikes..what do the kids who never played truant at all get....yes thats right, nothing!

also the if you read my post properly, my point about my mum not being able to fufil her potential was in support of benefits such as working tax credit..as SOME people in this country didnt have the options that we now have today, so should be rewarded for working hard.

Reply 81

Sorani

Working class, dad works in a warehouse mom is a part-time housekeeping supervisor (that's like...the cleaning boss at a hospital). I think they earn about £19,000 combined.
However in real life some people don't assume I'm working class because according to them "You can't be working class, you read and you know stuff" - nice.
I would say though that most of my family are your stereotypical working class family, chavvy, heavy-drinkers, racists/sexists/homophobes and I think it's affected me that I hate them so much I've tried to make myself different to them so maybe that's why I don't fit the image to some people. I do hate the stereotypes though.

Reply 82

Beekeeper

Thud

Of course it's influencial in D&D, I'm sure you've seen the kinds of threads and comments posted. Stuff about killing the poor or "freeing" the market - a lot of the posts are heavily geared to wayrds tories.

Middle class people want to 'kill the poor'?

I agree with you on the bible-bashers. But what the hell with left-wingers? I woudn't consider myself "ignorant" care to expand?

Well for a start you have just claimed the middle class presence on TSR is significant because everyone on here wants to 'kill the poor', apparently. :rolleyes:

none directly, of course. But as a group together they help the capitalist machine, that's bad enough in itself.

What is so bad about the capitalist 'machine'?

The middle classes are relatively content, they would probably never join in revolution because they aren't skrewed over enough by the government.

So you hate the middle class because they are happy?

er....working class people don't tend to pay their taxes? ^o)

I didn't mean that at all. I meant it in the sense that middle class people pay a far greater proportion of their income to the State.

Reply 83

Beekeeper

Thud

Yes, it's 2006 and Marx was right.

If you think that what we have right now is the free-market or capitalism then you clearly have very little understanding of how a free-market operates.

Reply 84

Rooftopcowboy

Sorani

id depends on attitude as well though: if say your mum and dad think that they should work hard to win promotion, take courses to improve their skills, read a wide range of media to increase their knowlege etc..thats entirely different to them thinking "im working class me, i dont read them posh papers" and just standing still, happy with there current jobs, with no ambition to earn more etc.

i think that attitude is often more the difference between working class and middle class. As often you get people with high incomes, who still have working class beleifs and still will have no desire to improve their knowlege and culture etc..because money is everything to them, and theyd rather spend it showing off what money they have (ie in forms of jewellery, cars etc) than long lasting things such as investing in houses etc

Reply 85

Thud

Beekeeper

If you think that what we have right now is the free-market or capitalism then you clearly have very little understanding of how a free-market operates.

No, about the petty-bourgeois businesses being pushed out due to massive ones (ie. Tesco taking over small grocery stores).

Reply 86

Beekeeper

Thud

Which kinds of schools did most politicians go to? Which universities? They hardly ever represent the people. They stand for the big business; just have a look at that whole loans for peerages affair.

Has it ever occured to you that, because the State sector is so inefficient by it's very nature- it's obviously more likely that the intelligent people are going to come from the private sector?
Believe it or not, middle/upper class people are not born fit for Oxford- it is the private sector that gets them there. Everyone should use the private sector.

The recent gains by the BNP give you an idea of how people are feeling towards Labour - they feel neglected enough to vote for BNP!

Indeed, and it's nothing to do with their economic position either- after all, the communist machine makes things like 'deportation' so much easier.

I think Libertarians and other free-market thinkers are about the least racist people out there, because the free-market isn't racist, capitalism doesn't work like that- and you would never get any of our supporters 'defecting to the BNP'.

Reply 87

Thud

Beekeeper

Middle class people want to 'kill the poor'?

No, that was an example of one of the more extreme things said in d&d.

Beekeeper

Well for a start you have just claimed the middle class presence on TSR is significant because everyone on here wants to 'kill the poor', apparently. :rolleyes:

See above.

Beekeeper

What is so bad about the capitalist 'machine'?

Causes inequality, enslaves people.

Real Capitalism wouldn't have many of the Socialist influenced things we have in this country - have a look at America, thousands are dying on the streets whilst others are gorging themselves in mansions and flashy cars.

Beekeeper

So you hate the middle class because they are happy?

When did I ever say I hated the middle classes?

Reply 88

AngelofnoColour

lower middle class I think atm. Probably heading towards middle class.

Reply 89

Beekeeper

Thud

No, about the petty-bourgeois businesses being pushed out due to massive ones (ie. Tesco taking over small grocery stores).

So let me get this straight... You support the free-market in the sense that you want to protect small businesses, but at the same time... you don't want to offer that businessman any kind of opportunity to grow or expand?

Can I also ask what is so immoral about Tesco? Tesco's megastores (as unslightly as they are) have completely transformed run-down neighbourhoods and brought thousands of jobs to those areas. Without Tesco, Britain would have a significantly higher unemployment rate. :rolleyes:

Reply 90

Rooftopcowboy

Beekeeper

personally I feel Tesco should be applauded.

theyve built there business into the most efficient supermarket around. With competitive prices, modern stores (when is the last time you ever entered a tesco that was dirty, and or outdated in design?) and clever layouts (through lots of research) and a genious Clubcard scheme (that allows them to target offers to different businesses) So they deserve the sucess they are getting, as they are the best in their feild.

it doesnt have to mean the end for other businesses IMO..it just means they have to change with the times. Like if your a local butcher, you can just stay selling meat (and moan about Tesco non stop) why not move into the neiche market of high-quality meat, selling meat with special glazes, herbs etc

to me, theres a lot of businesses who spend too much time moaning about supermarkets..instead of repositioning themselves in the market, and relying on their better customer service etc to win sales.

Reply 91

Beekeeper

Thud

No, that was an example of one of the more extreme things said in d&d.

Like that? I never saw anyone say this, and how on earth does this one comment represent the views of the middle class? How do you even know the person who said it is middle class??

Causes inequality, enslaves people.

The goal of capitalism isn't about enforcing 'equality', it is about giving everybody the opportunity to do something for themselves, encouraging people to work for themselves, and it is the only fair system we have discovered.
Hehe and interesting you should mention slavery- aren't you supposed to be a socialist? :rolleyes:

Capitalism gives people the choice of whether to be a slave or not.

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." – Dresden James

Real Capitalism wouldn't have many of the Socialist influenced things we have in this country - have a look at America, thousands are dying on the streets whilst others are gorging themselves in mansions and flashy cars.

America isn't "real capitalism", I assure you.

Reply 92

Thud

Beekeeper

What is immoral about them? The **** wages and exploitation of workers whilst the owners make profits of billions for a start.

I don't think so actually. Without Tesco, Britain would have more small stores which would employ people.

Reply 93

Beekeeper

Thud

Regardless of whether the state sector is inefficient, that wasn't the point, the point is that these politicians do not represent the majority of the country. This is rule by the minority and always is in capitalism.

The free-market doesn't rely on 'rule' from anyone- there is no Government powerful enough to force you to do what you don't want to do, there is no force.
Every single transaction in a free-market is voluntary. Besides, even if businesses could 'force' you to do things, any businessman will tell you that making customers feel threatened, intimated, scared simply wouldn't work- you wouldn't last two minutes.

There are problems with the private sector as well. Have a look at railways. I think one of the biggest problems with privatisation, especially in a area like schools, is that businesses will cherry pick the most profitable areas. The rest will be neglected. Government isn't after profit but is after equal coverage.

There is profit to be made anywhere. Any school in this country could be profitable with the right kind of leadership.

Deportation? what are you on about?

I'm criticising the BNP on the basis that I have read their manifesto- you clearly haven't. :rolleyes:

Reply 94

Thud

Beekeeper

Like that? I never saw anyone say this, and how on earth does this one comment represent the views of the middle class? How do you even know the person who said it is middle class??

Calm down, it was one example.

The guy who said it apparently goes to Eton, he's banned for something different.

Beekeeper

1) I'm a communist, not a socialist
2) what?

People are currently enslaved. They have to sell their labour to live, and your quote is correct - people don't realise this slavery at the moment. That's why communists have to point it out to them.

Beekeeper

America isn't "real capitalism", I assure you.

I know, but it is more so than this country.

Reply 95

bedbug

I don't really know how to classify myself so I've gone for middle class. Both my parents were from very working class families, but both then went on to uni and made something of themselves. According to the Wiki explanation, if you have made your own wealth then you're lower upper class. My Dad has set up and runs a group of companies so I guess that fits there, I've never really thought about it.

Reply 96

Caribou

Thud

I really don't think the BNP are communist.....

The BNP are highly authoritarian with slightly left economic leanings.

Reply 97

a_man_1066

It's been said several times that 'you must have a title to be upper class'. This is not true imo - real royals are a different class altogether, and while the majority of people with lesser titles are upper, other people can be as well. I also think a lot of people who put 'upper middle' on the poll may be 'upper', they just don't realise how rich they are. (I know people that have several houses, expensive cars, horses, and think they are 'normal middle class :rolleyes:

I wish they'd get a grip of reality)

And I am sick to the back teeth of 'only working class people can be screwed by capitalism/support a 'revolution/etc - Everyone gets screwed except the very top people. Just as bad however is middle class kids who decide to become 'communist'. I'm like "You do know that means the proletariat rising up to overthrow the borgeouis" and they're like "Yeah" and I'm like "But you are the borgeouis!" :rolleyes:

As for me: Neithe rof my parents got degrees after school (though my mum's just got one as a mature student), we live in a nice-ish 3-bed semi, our cars are a Ford Fiesta and a Vauxhall Vectra. My dad's got quite a high-paying job though. I'll let you work it out for yourself.

Why are we doing this anyway? I'm not saying the class system doesn't exist, but the point of an internet forum is anonymity and when people know they only sterotype.

Reply 98

Sorani

I think maybe that would apply if they were younger or had better qualifications (they're 59 and 58) although I think more than anything they're happy the way they are. My dad has worked at a fruit stand, a factory and now a warehouse and he enjoys the job, he doesn't think he needs more money and he does also work really hard at his job (I think that's another stereotype there - that working class people just don't bother to work). He did actually start out as an accountant as he was quite good at maths but hated the job so much he quit. He's also a strong reader and very interested in news and politics so I suppose his attitude is quite different.
My mom on the other hand, she knows she isn't that intelligent and doesn't pretend that she is and like my dad is just happy with the way she is.

Reply 99

matchu

a_man_1066

The class system isn't based on economic prowess (well not soley)

It is composed of many components, including honor, prestige, race, gender etc.

footballers and their wives generally are very wealthy, can have several houses and extensive stables.

I can't see somebody trying to argue the point of Wayne Rooney being upper class...