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Missed Oxford Law offer, got in by skin of teeth. Poor A-Level/Law Career hopes over.

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Reply 60
Original post by Michael345
Hey all.

First and foremost, I would just to like to stress that this post should not be misconstrued due to the sensitive timing of it. Basically, this morning like many other students I logged onto UCAS Track and saw 'Congratulations your place at X uni has been confirmed'... My firm choice was Oxford, so I was extremely happy and assumed that I had got at least AAA or higher. So, I was feeling very chilled when I got my results. Famous last words. I was met with ABB?! Thought it was a cruel joke

I was horrified. I was sure that Oxford must have made a mistake in accepting me and kept waiting for an email from UCAS to inform me that the track update was a mistake, but they hadn't. I could only assume that it was down to my LNAT score, my mitigating circumstances which I had informed them of prior to results day or the fact that I had missed the 2 As by a matter of 1 and 3 UMS. The 2Bs are being remarked but not optimistic. I don't think that I really should be going to Oxford if I'm honest. I would be embarrassed to tell anyone at my college that I got ABB, quite possibly would have the lowest grades at the college. Just feel like I'd be punching above my weight on a course with some people who have A*A*A*A*,but that is obviously a different discussion. I question whether I'm even capable of a 2.1.. With ABB, I could quite easily be going to Oxford brookes an ex poly instead, so I feel a urge to tell people I'm not smart when they congratulate me for getting a place. I think I could have lived with AAB, but ABB is just not the sort of grades that I'd be getting.

To make this relevant to the legal forum, I had wanted to be a solicitor at a city firm, but almost all of the top 40 firms ask for AAB which I clearly don't have. I just feel like I'm doomed before I've started the degree, as I will be binned from the word go. I will obviously go ahead with the degree but I'd like to set my aspirations from now, since with the aforementioned grades, I accept that one of the more highly sought after firms will be beyond my grasp. I don't think I can imagine myself anywhere but London, are places like Pinsent Masons still a possibility?, all other things being good.

Thanks for any advice.


How is going to Oxford Brookes going to change the fact city firms ask for AAB?
Reply 61
Original post by blabbermonkey
People comment on such things in a collegiate environment. I entirely agree that it's ridiculous and that they shouldn't care but I don't want the guy to be known throughout college as 'oh is he the one who got ABB?' before everyone gets to know him. My advice may sounds a bit weird and secretive I accept but I do genuinely have his best interests at heart.


I definitely see where you're coming from. I just think it's pretty unlikely the ABB label would stick (although I could be wrong about this). At least the OP has had both sides of the argument!
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 62
Original post by danny111
How is going to Oxford Brookes going to change the fact city firms ask for AAB?


Means that I'm very lucky to be into Oxford. I can't class myself as being in the bracket of more intelligent than those at Ox Brookes when I could quite easily be there. The way I see my prospects aren't really any better than Oxford Brookes student because of our A-Levels will be mainly similar. I had always assumed that top firms recruit from Oxford because Oxford has the highest percentage of bright students (generalisation) I don't fit that bill according to my grades, therefore may be left out in the cold. I'd feel like I'd much rather 'trade' down slightly than be in this predicament, i.e A*AA at UCL instead of my ABB and Oxford.

Makes me feel inferior and pretty stupid to be honest, since I'm sure my CV will always be met with an initial, 'hmm how did he get into Oxford with those shoddy A-Levels?
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 63
Original post by Michael345
Means that I'm very lucky to be into Oxford. I can't class myself as being in the bracket of more intelligent than those at Ox Brookes when I could quite easily be there. The way I see my prospects aren't really any better than Oxford Brookes student because of our A-Levels will be mainly similar. I had always assumed that top firms recruit from Oxford because Oxford has the highest percentage of bright students (generalisation) I don't fit that bill according to my grades, therefore may be left out in the cold. I'd feel like I'd much rather 'trade' down slightly than be in this predicament, i.e A*AA at UCL instead of my ABB and Oxford.

Makes me feel inferior and pretty stupid to be honest, since I'm sure my CV will always be met with an initial, 'hmm how did he get into Oxford with those shoddy A-Levels?


This post implies that you think people on ABB are stupid and inferior, wow... Only on TSR

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I too underperformed at A level and was lucky that my university was able to see past this. I was predicted AAA and I got ABB and it was a horrible horrible shock. However, I still managed to graduate from a top uni with a first - my a levels just motivated me to work harder.

More to the point - I did January retakes for my two Bs alongside studying for my uni exams. I had a couple of tutor sessions over skype and carefully selected which papers to re-take. Like you, I was very close to As anyway. I did well and now I don't even think about A levels.

I've applied to a lot of law firms and had a lot of interviews. Nowhere have I seen anyone mention that you need As on first sitting. I'm always very upfront about my grades but it really has not been a problem.

You'll be fine.
Reply 65
Original post by ElChapo
This post implies that you think people on ABB are stupid and inferior, wow... Only on TSR

Posted from TSR Mobile


Not at all. Just that it obviously does suggest that you're academically inferior to an A*A*A student at Oxford on the same course.
Original post by igwtd
I did my undergrad in Cambridge and my masters in Oxford and was fortunate enough to do well in both (I only mention this because it's relevant to what follows). Michael, I remember very well the feeling of starting out and being worried that everyone else is going to be so much better, that you're not good enough to be there, etc. This is natural and it will pass as you get stuck into the course. You have a fantastic opportunity going to Oxford to do law and you shouldn't let your A level results make you feel insecure when you get there, for one simple reason:

The kind of thinking and learning you'll be doing in Oxford is fundamentally different from the kind of learning involved in your A levels.

There's a much bigger emphasis on independent learning and original thought, and the "syllabus" is just a guide rather than a complete list of all the things you need to memorise. Of course A levels are relevant to admissions and so help you get your foot in the door. But if you look at the group of people who get in, you definitely can't predict their degree results (or, more importantly, their legal reasoning abilities) just by looking at their A level scores. I knew people with pretty much 100% UMS in all their A levels who were average lawyers (not a bad thing). I also knew people who far exceeded their A level achievements to become absolutely stellar lawyers. Put briefly, A levels and Oxford law develop different skills and test different things.

I would be so so happy if even one person would read this and throw themselves into their university course without worrying about UMS scores any more. What's exciting (and a bit scary) is that you'll be judged on how good a lawyer you make yourself, not on your past. My advice: get stuck in and don't look back!


Could not emphasise this enough.
Reply 67
If it helps OP my flatmate was applying for accountancy jobs with relatively poor A Levels last year and all but one of those he emailed (one of the Big 4, though the other 3 said yes) were happy to wave the filter when he emailed them and explained his current grades. He was absolutely smashing his degree, his average was in the high 80s, but I don't know if Oxford may have a similar effect?

If you go on a website called rollonfriday there's a regular poster on the training board there who had the same issue and interviewed at a few MC/SC firms so if you make a thread hopefully he may reply. Think he's called LLOD or something similar, I suspect the same guy may be on here too but I'm not 100% so don't want to point you in the direction of a random!
Original post by Michael345
Hey all.

First and foremost, I would just to like to stress that this post should not be misconstrued due to the sensitive timing of it. Basically, this morning like many other students I logged onto UCAS Track and saw 'Congratulations your place at X uni has been confirmed'... My firm choice was Oxford, so I was extremely happy and assumed that I had got at least AAA or higher. So, I was feeling very chilled when I got my results. Famous last words. I was met with ABB?! Thought it was a cruel joke

I was horrified. I was sure that Oxford must have made a mistake in accepting me and kept waiting for an email from UCAS to inform me that the track update was a mistake, but they hadn't. I could only assume that it was down to my LNAT score, my mitigating circumstances which I had informed them of prior to results day or the fact that I had missed the 2 As by a matter of 1 and 3 UMS. The 2Bs are being remarked but not optimistic. I don't think that I really should be going to Oxford if I'm honest. I would be embarrassed to tell anyone at my college that I got ABB, quite possibly would have the lowest grades at the college. Just feel like I'd be punching above my weight on a course with some people who have A*A*A*A*,but that is obviously a different discussion. I question whether I'm even capable of a 2.1.. With ABB, I could quite easily be going to Oxford brookes an ex poly instead, so I feel a urge to tell people I'm not smart when they congratulate me for getting a place. I think I could have lived with AAB, but ABB is just not the sort of grades that I'd be getting.

To make this relevant to the legal forum, I had wanted to be a solicitor at a city firm, but almost all of the top 40 firms ask for AAB which I clearly don't have. I just feel like I'm doomed before I've started the degree, as I will be binned from the word go. I will obviously go ahead with the degree but I'd like to set my aspirations from now, since with the aforementioned grades, I accept that one of the more highly sought after firms will be beyond my grasp. I don't think I can imagine myself anywhere but London, are places like Pinsent Masons still a possibility?, all other things being good.

Thanks for any advice.


Actually not all top law firms consider A level results. And if you have mitigating circumstances then most firms will take this in to account. Do the best you can do in your degree & get a lot of legal work experience under your belt.



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Reply 69
Just forget about the grades and feel enthusiastic and grateful for getting into such a competitive university - that's an achievement in itself. I see what you mean about the "low" grades, but that's irrelevant now. Just focus on your university course as A level grades in your case are now irrelevant.


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Reply 70
Original post by roh
If it helps OP my flatmate was applying for accountancy jobs with relatively poor A Levels last year and all but one of those he emailed (one of the Big 4, though the other 3 said yes) were happy to wave the filter when he emailed them and explained his current grades. He was absolutely smashing his degree, his average was in the high 80s, but I don't know if Oxford may have a similar effect?

If you go on a website called rollonfriday there's a regular poster on the training board there who had the same issue and interviewed at a few MC/SC firms so if you make a thread hopefully he may reply. Think he's called LLOD or something similar, I suspect the same guy may be on here too but I'm not 100% so don't want to point you in the direction of a random!



Thanks, that does helps, since I had assumed that the filters are very very rigid regardless of what else you can offer.

I'm going to do my utmost to get at least a very strong 2:1 but I guess that's easier said than done, so fingers crossed :smile:

I'll check that site out thanks!
Reply 71
Original post by PotterLaw
Actually not all top law firms consider A level results. And if you have mitigating circumstances then most firms will take this in to account. Do the best you can do in your degree & get a lot of legal work experience under your belt.



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Hmm really? I don't even mind them being 'considered' I just would like to at least be able to try and redeem myself over the course of the application. Out of interest what firms are you referring to?

I've got 5 months work experience at a law firm (June to Oct) so I hope that's a good start. Feeling a lot better about it all, glad I made this thread.
Reply 72
Original post by Ndella
Just forget about the grades and feel enthusiastic and grateful for getting into such a competitive university - that's an achievement in itself. I see what you mean about the "low" grades, but that's irrelevant now. Just focus on your university course as A level grades in your case are now irrelevant.


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Thanks, I think I just need to try and use that as motivation, and realise that there's still a long way to go. I'd much rather mediocre A-Levels and a top degree, than top A-Levels and a 2:2/low 2:1..
I really wouldn't worry about feeling out of place. Oxbridge admissions tutors make a living out of picking the right people for their course and as such they're undoubtedly very good at picking people that they know will do well. As a result their word holds some weight around college and thus, regardless of your grades, people will consider you good enough to be there because the tutors say you are. It's very, very rare that they make mistakes. I had similar qualms to you when the conversation turned to grades among the cohort of lawyers at my college - I only just scraped my A*AA offer while one of the girls had got 6 A*s. But then for the first year we both got 2:1s. And to be honest, anyone that looks down on you because of your grades isn't worth your time anyway, and will probably come off worse in life - whatever job they end up in they'll almost certainly have to deal with people who are less clever than them and that's not going to end well if they keep looking down their nose all the time!
Reply 74
Original post by Michael345
Hmm really? I don't even mind them being 'considered' I just would like to at least be able to try and redeem myself over the course of the application. Out of interest what firms are you referring to?

I've got 5 months work experience at a law firm (June to Oct) so I hope that's a good start. Feeling a lot better about it all, glad I made this thread.


Think Links is the most famous of those which don't ask for AAB form what I remember. Quite a few filter ABB rather than AAB too.
Original post by Michael345
Hmm really? I don't even mind them being 'considered' I just would like to at least be able to try and redeem myself over the course of the application. Out of interest what firms are you referring to?

I've got 5 months work experience at a law firm (June to Oct) so I hope that's a good start. Feeling a lot better about it all, glad I made this thread.


Too many to list off the top of my head! Look at the Lex 100 and www.lawcareers.net for a better idea.

Really good work experience is key & that sounds brilliant! You should be feeling really positive :smile:


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Reply 76
Original post by Michael345
Thanks, I think I just need to try and use that as motivation, and realise that there's still a long way to go. I'd much rather mediocre A-Levels and a top degree, than top A-Levels and a 2:2/low 2:1..


Although it's not exactly your situation, I had no A-levels/GCSEs at all (was homeschooled), got into university off the back of an Access-type course, and have a couple of MC TC interviews lined up. It's probably been said before, but make full use of the recruitment events at university - make sure you chat to the grad recruit staff, explain things and they'll often be happy to make allowances (in my experience).

Above all, make the most of university, and not just academically - you've got years to get yourself to where you want career-wise, but only 3 years at uni, which pass remarkably quickly! Get involved, do stuff you really enjoy, and you'll come across a well-rounded, interesting individual. Which is the sort of chap that people want to hire.

Another tip: get involved with the sponsorship side of societies (eg the law soc). You get loads of opportunities to meet grad recruiters, and they actually get to "do business" with you. So plenty of opportunities to make a good impression!
Reply 77
Original post by Michael345
Hey all.

.


Hi Michael345,

Apologies for being late to the thread, but I do have some experience to do with grade filters at firms which require AAB.

I have the same A-level grades as you and still got interviews at big city firms. I applied early in the cycle and explained that, whilst I did not have 'mitigating circumstances' as such, I did miss my predicted grade in one of my A-levels by a tiny amount. I made it clear I could bring along a mark breakdown to prove my point. Indeed, I did get offered a TC at one of the places (although I ultimately chose to stay away from London). Evidently, then, the filter isn't as harsh as is sometimes made out.

I'd advise you to use the mitigating circumstances you have evidence of in order to get around these grade filters. If you can show evidence of mitigation, evidence of how close you were to AAA and can back it up with at least a 65% from Oxford, then I think you'd get around the academics issue at almost all firms.

As such, I'd question the utility of re-sitting. It would take time and focus away from your degree (which will be hard), and most firms only count your first attempts anyway. They ask for when the qualification was awarded and if the date seems anomalous, you may just get binned as it could be considered an error. If you can bypass the filter with mitigating circs, I wouldn't see the point in taking them again.

Finally, and on an unrelated note- don't feel like you wouldn't belong at Oxford. They selected you and obviously believe your mitigation to be sufficient enough to explain your grades. You might get sick of explaining it all to the A-level obsessed bores you will probably come across (they are at all unis), but by the time you get some uni scores under your belt all that will fall away.

You've done incredibly well to get to where you are now, so don't let any doubts eat away at you. I think you should look forward now and get on to the next stage.


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(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 78
Hi there,

I too missed my offer by 2 UMS points in one and 5 in the other (ABB) and was rejected... I've been told that I can write a letter to ask for an appeal and was wondering what LNAT you had that they let you in anyway? I have quite a high one of 27 and wondering if I have any chance in hell of getting it...
Don't worry so much about other people. Just focus on your own work and get that degree!

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