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Is This The Real Reason For The Gender Pay Gap? Watch

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    http://www.independent.co.uk/student...s-8764119.html

    So the gap between the number of boys and girls taking science and maths subjects is growing.

    If girls choose to take subjects that are easier and only really develop soft skills, how can they still complain about men being paid more?
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    I have to agree with you there Many of the better paying jobs do involve science/technology/maths(as part of business/accounting etc) which tend to be subjects guys pick.

    Thats why I did a couple of science subjects and why I'm doing a BSc to try and compete with the guys, starting in a months time I haven't been able to find anyone doing my uni course though, but I imagine it will be mainly guys seeing as it is a science course ...


    I did chemistry at AS there were 21 of us between the 2 classes and I think it was a pretty even split between girls and boys. At A2 there were 2 boys and me ...
    In my AS maths class there were 6 girls and 1 boy ! I think the other class had a lot more boys though.
    Geography was mainly boys in AS maybe a 2:1 ratio. At A2 there were 4 boys and two of us girls.
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    (Original post by nic-nac)
    I have to agree with you there Many of the better paying jobs do involve science/technology/maths(as part of business/accounting etc) which tend to be subjects guys pick.

    Thats why I did a couple of science subjects and why I'm doing a BSc, starting in a months time I haven't been able to find anyone doing my uni course though, but I imagine it will be mainly guys seeing as it is a science course ...


    I did chemistry at AS there were 21 of us between the 2 classes and I think it was a pretty even split between girls and boys. At A2 there were 2 boys and me ...
    In my AS maths class there were 6 girls and 1 boy ! I think the other class had a lot more boys though.
    Geography was mainly boys in AS maybe a 2:1 ratio. At A2 there were 4 boys and two of us girls.
    Yeah, I think it explains a lot. At my Uni girls make up only around 20% of Engineering and Computing courses. The only science subjects that girls seem to be attracted to at university are Medicine and Dentistry.

    Is this because they are seen as safer careers or because they involve more people skills and girls generally seem to prefer careers that involve softer skill-sets?
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    (Original post by punani)
    Is this because they are seen as safer careers or because they involve more people skills and girls generally seem to prefer careers that involve softer skill-sets?
    Actually, I'd argue it's because a lot of guys are expected to be the ones with successful careers and acting as 'providers', which means they'll be naturally driven towards degrees and careers that rake in the dosh and make one successful leading to the gender disparity in terms of STEM-careers or finances.

    Girls can choose to get into a STEM career if they wish, but are under little pressure to do so which means a lot of them will pick stuff with questionable employment prospects like English/Psychology/History etc. because they enjoy it/it's easy/to doss about etc. Which means that a girl programmer is very unlikely to earn less than her male counterpart (you telling me a company wouldn't hire all women if they could save 20% on salaries, do you even business? also hello easy lawsuit), it's just that on average girls aren't exactly gunning for the top of the range jobs.
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    I studied Physics at Cambridge and then went on to work as an Engineer, pay was fine and comparable until I decided to have babies and then everything went to the wall!!
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    You do realise that most well-paid graduate schemes in fields such business, finance, accounting and management don't require specific degrees? They accept most degrees as long as you have a 2.1.

    Also, I don't know about engineering, but most Science jobs are not very well paid. I have a degree in Biochemistry and most jobs I've looked at don't pay well, but I don't really care because I enjoy what I do.
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    You're ignoring that women are generally paid less than men in the same work areas. Partly because of having children, partly because of a fear they will have children and partly because bosses tend to be men and they prefer people like them when it comes to promotions.


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    The economist Thomas Sowell answered this in the 70s.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo

    About 2:30 in.
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    (Original post by I love shopping)
    You do realise that most well-paid graduate schemes in fields such business, finance, accounting and management don't require specific degrees? They accept most degrees as long as you have a 2.1.

    Also, I don't know about engineering, but most Science jobs are not very well paid. I have a degree in Biochemistry and most jobs I've looked at don't pay well, but I don't really care because I enjoy what I do.
    There is usually a difference between what the minimum requirements may be and what qualifications the successful applicants possess.

    Also women are less likely to apply for the more competitive fields.
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    (Original post by athena13)
    I studied Physics at Cambridge and then went on to work as an Engineer, pay was fine and comparable until I decided to have babies and then everything went to the wall!!
    (Original post by RachelB11)
    You're ignoring that women are generally paid less than men in the same work areas. Partly because of having children, partly because of a fear they will have children and partly because bosses tend to be men and they prefer people like them when it comes to promotions.


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    If childcare is the biggest hindrance to equal pay, why were some women's groups against the equal splitting of maternity/paternity pay when this bill was introduced to parliament?
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    The economist Thomas Sowell answered this in the 70s.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo

    About 2:30 in.
    Interesting. Obvious but overlooked points that positive discrimination advocates always choose to ignore.
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    (Original post by punani)
    If childcare is the biggest hindrance to equal pay, why were some women's groups against the equal splitting of maternity/paternity pay when this bill was introduced to parliament?
    There was a woman on Radio 4 a few months ago going on about the Governments support for child care is discriminatory as it only supports mothers who work and not those who choose to stay at home. You can't keep everybody happy.
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    Quite an interesting topic to discuss. In my opinion, as long as a man and a woman who are equally skilled, doing the same job, are paid the same, an overall pay gap isn't a problem.
    If men choose higher-paying careers, and work for longer over their lives (don't have to look after children as much etc.), then they will have a higher average pay.
    Girls know the advantages of doing a BSc not a BA. They make their choices.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    There was a woman on Radio 4 a few months ago going on about the Governments support for child care is discriminatory as it only supports mothers who work and not those who choose to stay at home. You can't keep everybody happy.
    Do you mean the whole vouchers for childcare scheme that they are introducing?

    I was talking about when they introduced the ability for fathers to take up a lot of the maternity pay if the mother went to work. I think it was delayed until 2015 but I remember at the time a lot of women's groups were moaning about it saying that it was pressurising women to go back to work.

    I don't understand their problem with this if they believe childcare is the biggest obstacle to equal pay?
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    (Original post by punani)
    Do you mean the whole vouchers for childcare scheme that they are introducing?

    I was talking about when they introduced the ability for fathers to take up a lot of the maternity pay if the mother went to work. I think it was delayed until 2015 but I remember at the time a lot of women's groups were moaning about it saying that it was pressurising women to go back to work.

    I don't understand their problem with this if they believe childcare is the biggest obstacle to equal pay?
    It is, and if you equal women's pay to compensate for it then you're discriminating against men. I'm incredibly lucky to be going out with a very intelligent girl who wipes the floor with me not only academically, but IQ wise and common sense wise. Basically a better chance of success at work than me.

    I floated the idea of me being a stay at home dad as she'll be more successful at work than me. I was told to do one. I'd be the bread winner. She understands that having kids will impact on her earning potential, but she also realises the importance of mothers being around children.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    It is, and if you equal women's pay to compensate for it then you're discriminating against men. I'm incredibly lucky to be going out with a very intelligent girl who wipes the floor with me not only academically, but IQ wise and common sense wise. Basically a better chance of success at work than me.

    I floated the idea of me being a stay at home dad as she'll be more successful at work than me. I was told to do one. I'd be the bread winner. She understands that having kids will impact on her earning potential, but she also realises the importance of mothers being around children.
    Yeah, I have had similar experiences.

    The only radical feminists I seem to come across are on TSR or Twitter. They don't seem to exist in real life.
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    (Original post by punani)
    If childcare is the biggest hindrance to equal pay, why were some women's groups against the equal splitting of maternity/paternity pay when this bill was introduced to parliament?
    Why do you assume every woman agrees as to what is a good idea? As a woman without children I've found I've had to reach far higher standards if achievement than male counterparts to get the same promotions due to a fear I may have children and take more time off to look after them as a result as well as demanding maternity leave of ridiculous lengths - or is the fashion because of the law take maternity leave and then tell them I'm not coming back as that gets me more money than being honest. I've also been expected to make up for women being off work for maternity leave whilst make counterparts have not - as if purely as a woman I'm responsible for maternity leave as some sort of group responsibility.

    I'm not against paternity leave being increased and hopefully the culture in this country will change so men actually take it. We all hear enough moaning from divorced men when it comes to them generally not being awarded custody but we've equally all seen in the workplace that it is usually women not men who do all the emergency child care and part time working.


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    (Original post by RachelB11)
    Why do you assume every woman agrees as to what is a good idea? As a woman without children I've found I've had to reach far higher standards if achievement than male counterparts to get the same promotions due to a fear I may have children and take more time off to look after them as a result as well as demanding maternity leave of ridiculous lengths - or is the fashion because of the law take maternity leave and then tell them I'm not coming back as that gets me more money than being honest. I've also been expected to make up for women being off work for maternity leave whilst make counterparts have not - as if purely as a woman I'm responsible for maternity leave as some sort of group responsibility.

    I'm not against paternity leave being increased and hopefully the culture in this country will change so men actually take it. We all hear enough moaning from divorced men when it comes to them generally not being awarded custody but we've equally all seen in the workplace that it is usually women not men who do all the emergency child care and part time working.


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    Surely if there was a more equitable split of childcare then this wouldn't be as big an issue? If women then decide to do more of the childcare in this environment, then how can you say lower pay is then discrimination?
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    Punani you obviously haven't lived in the same environment as I have. If men are now volunteering to do the childcare - great. But from what I've seen in practice is that generally they do not - nor do they think they should do an equal share of household chores when both are working the same hours outside the home. And the statistics are bearing out what I say.
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    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21698522
 
 
 
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