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National Service Bill (conscription) 2013-14 Second Reading Watch

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    http://services.parliament.uk/bills/...alservice.html

    What are the exact details of this ?

    What are they proposing ? Surely not conscription ?
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    As a former soldier is have to say that I disagree with conscription. However I do see quite a few benefits for society in general. I've never met anybody who did national service who didnt feel they benefited from it.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    As a former soldier is have to say that I disagree with conscription. However I do see quite a few benefits for society in general. I've never met anybody who did national service who didnt feel they benefited from it.
    Would it help chavs be "cured" if they went in the army ?
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    (Original post by deehee)
    Would it help chavs be "cured" if they went in the army ?

    Take you pick. It would give chats a bit of self discipline and give them opportunities to better themselves. ( NS opened up doors for many who were given otherwise)
    it would give middle class champagne socialists a reality check so they'd be less niave.

    I do believe that NS did quite a good job at knocking down social barriers. You got working class guys bunking up with upper class toffs.

    Mainly though I tthink it would benefit society by promoting teamwork, integrity, duty, honour, self discipline and self sacrifice. ( not killing yourself self sacrifice but the I'll leave the last biscuit invade somebody else wants it)

    With the exception of Ireland and the UK, every country in Europe has either had it until recently or still has it. Norway has just voted to extend it to women. A lot of these countries don't have the individualistic nature that we have in the uk.

    http://geert-hofstede.com/united-kingdom.html
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    I did some research and it appears this is a rebel bill, so I would assume that it will never go through (fortunately).

    onservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2013/06/the-alternative-queens-speech-the-full-list-of-40-rebel-bills.html full list of rebel bills

    Even though I plan to end up in the Military, I really don't think forcing people to join would do any good at all.
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    Does anyone happen know the contents of this Bill?
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    It's a private members bill, not yet published. The government will block it, although I doubt it would get past second reading anyway. Except in times of war, conscription is illegal under ECHR.

    There were some good points about national service. But if that's still the case then it shouldn't be too difficult to persuade people to do it voluntarily.
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    I wouldn't say I am entirely against the idea of national service providing there are sensible rules for eligibility. Everyone I know who has done it speaks about it with a substantial level of vitriol about it taking a year or two out of their life to dig and fill trenches and run around in mud before they can get on with things. These are probably not the people who would have stood to benefit from it though (everyone I know who did it is now a medical student in the UK and had to delay starting their studies to do their national service).
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    'So glad I'm not a woman. The worst thing that can happen is I'd get sent to war, Even then I could just find a nice cave, eat some berries and just tug myself off til it’s all over'
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    Too expensive although would be a kick up the backside for those who leave school at 16 with no qualifications, many who would learn valuable skills.
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    No, national service should always be optional. I really dont see why its deemed acceptable to force people into a potentially dangerous occupation.
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    (Original post by The_Duck)
    No, national service should always be optional. I really dont see why its deemed acceptable to force people into a potentially dangerous occupation.
    The keyword is potentially, and many nations that do do conscription offer the soft option.

    Germany for example never sent its conscripts to Afghanistan, although many volunteered to go and had to stay on in the Army for an extra year before they'd go.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Take you pick. It would give chats a bit of self discipline and give them opportunities to better themselves. ( NS opened up doors for many who were given otherwise)
    it would give middle class champagne socialists a reality check so they'd be less niave.

    I do believe that NS did quite a good job at knocking down social barriers. You got working class guys bunking up with upper class toffs.

    Mainly though I tthink it would benefit society by promoting teamwork, integrity, duty, honour, self discipline and self sacrifice. ( not killing yourself self sacrifice but the I'll leave the last biscuit invade somebody else wants it)

    With the exception of Ireland and the UK, every country in Europe has either had it until recently or still has it. Norway has just voted to extend it to women. A lot of these countries don't have the individualistic nature that we have in the uk.

    http://geert-hofstede.com/united-kingdom.html
    I know wikipedia is a lousy source but it states that women are never drafted unless they voluntee. Good to know that we live in an age of equality. In fact it's the same in Switzerland and Turkey who want to join the EU. Does anyone have the feeling that if world war 3 happens it will be only men that get conscripted. Greece also only conscripts men, I can't believe nobody has taken that to the ECHR. Denmark and Cyprus too and Austria, surely this flouts the EUs equality laws and surely it will cause social engineering by allowing women a head start on their careers,
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    I'm ex army and like maturestudent am against the idea of conscription. It's difficult enough to motivate those who've voluntarily joined the army, I can't imagine how much more difficult it would be having to motivate those who've been made to join. Our forces are busy enough without having to babysit society's malcontents.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    It's a private members bill, not yet published. The government will block it, although I doubt it would get past second reading anyway. Except in times of war, conscription is illegal under ECHR.

    There were some good points about national service. But if that's still the case then it shouldn't be too difficult to persuade people to do it voluntarily.
    Can I ask which Article you got this from?
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    Can I ask which Article you got this from?
    Indeed, as I'm pretty sure Greece still has conscription. It's only just been stopped in Germany in the last few years.
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    (Original post by moonkatt)
    Indeed, as I'm pretty sure Greece still has conscription. It's only just been stopped in Germany in the last few years.
    The Convention makes explicit concession to compulsory military service in Art.4(3)(b), so I'd be curious to know which Article rules it out!
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    The Convention makes explicit concession to compulsory military service in Art.4(3)(b), so I'd be curious to know which Article rules it out!
    Best let Denmark know
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Best let Denmark know
    If that was deliberately esoteric, it worked. What are you talking about?
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    If that was deliberately esoteric, it worked. What are you talking about?
    THey still have conscription. As do all Scandinavian countries.
 
 
 
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