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    I read that the University of Liverpool was the first Redbrick, and because of this it was always highly regarded within working-class circles, despite its variable degrees of prestige over the years from the trendy middle-class. Is this true?
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    It did seem to receive much high praise, as an institution, amongst working-class respondents to a recent poll.
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    (Original post by sydney_watts)
    I read that the University of Liverpool was the first Redbrick, and because of this it was always highly regarded within working-class circles, despite its variable degrees of prestige over the years from the trendy middle-class. Is this true?
    This is wrong on so many levels.

    Firstly the term redbrick wasn't coined until 1943.

    Secondly, to anyone around at the time (and all of the redbricks have older precursors) Manchester would have been regarded as senior by a year (1880 to 1881) because Manchester was seen as inheriting the traditions and seniority of the original federal Victoria University of which both were part.

    All of the redbricks were very middle class in their foundation.

    If one is looking for universities with a strongly working class origin, it is the Welsh colleges at Aberystwyth and Bangor. That is because they were planted into into virgin territory where there was no form of advanced education and so taught vocational subjects from the outset. 3,000 quarrymen, who had raised much of the funds, took part in the procession to the opening of Bangor.

    Places like Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham were in Victorian times, full of commercial colleges of one sort or another, which is why most of the post-1992 universities claim very early dates of foundation. Apart from University of Wales: Trinity Saint David which operates under the 1828 charter of St David's College, a theological college, no university in Wales has any precursor older than the new foundations at Aber and Bangor.

    Manchester Met claims the same progenitor as Manchester (from the UMIST side) in 1824; Liverpool John Moores claims a precursor a year older and Liverpool Hope has 1844. Birmingham City's precursors go back to 1843.
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    Working class Oxbridge is Oxbridge.
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    Working class Oxbridge is Oxbridge.
    You have not read Jude the Obscure then?
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    The University of Life is the working class Oxford. Those rejected at interview have to settle for Life Metropolitan, formerly the polytechnic of life.
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    Working class Oxbridge is Oxbridge.

    Keep deluding yourself with that myth. At least you'll be happy.
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    (Original post by sydney_watts)
    Keep deluding yourself with that myth. At least you'll be happy.
    It's only a myth because people are told it's not for them. Do you have any experience of the system? Other than the daily mail that is.
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    The OP's been reading too much of the Daily Mail...
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    The working class don't go to university.

    Mind you, they don't appear to do much work either...
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    It's only a myth because people are told it's not for them. Do you have any experience of the system? Other than the daily mail that is.

    Indeed, I do. I hold a BA from one of those 2 universities and I am now pursuing an MA at that same university. And it has been my experience that many of my fellow students, if not the majority in some colleges, were drawn from the upper-middle and the upper classes, including myself. Sure, there were plenty of people you could point to and say, so-and-so's father was a welder, or she comes from the rough edge of Liverpool, but not nearly enough, in my opinion. Besides, because the elites are small in number they obviously can not dominate any institution, so those that are not from that class can easily be pointed to and it can be said: 'See, we're all not Eton/Roedean graduates; most of the students here come from working-class and middle-class families'. Such a phony cop-out! Obviously, there's more room for just accommodating the sons and daughters of the wealthiest 5% of the British population. Ever ask yourself why the top 5% of the economic ladder makes up 45% - 60% of most colleges at Oxbridge, while they take only .02% of places at most of the Redbricks? You see similar trends at the other unis thought reserved for the posh who couldn't get into Oxbridge, such as Durham, Bristol, UCL, Kings, LSE. But go to the Universities of Liverpool, Sheffield, Birmingham, and Manchester, and nary a PR speaking, boarding school, 'Father works in the City and my horse's name is Cuddles' type can be found. Mind you, a number of the students will be graduate of 'independent schools', but there is a world of difference between a modest fee-paying, provincial, day school compared to super elite boarding schools like Eton, St Swithun's, Winchester or Roedean. Graduates of these places either head to Oxbridge or the select alternates mentioned. If they have serious money than they go to the Ivy League in America or perhaps one of the swish universities in Switzerland or France.
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    Liverpool has a university? Oh god I am beginning to lose faith in humanity...
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    (Original post by sydney_watts)
    Indeed, I do. I hold a BA from one of those 2 universities and I am now pursuing an MA at that same university. And it has been my experience that many of my fellow students, if not the majority in some colleges, were drawn from the upper-middle and the upper classes, including myself. Sure, there were plenty of people you could point to and say, so-and-so's father was a welder, or she comes from the rough edge of Liverpool, but not nearly enough, in my opinion. Besides, because the elites are small in number they obviously can not dominate any institution, so those that are not from that class can easily be pointed to and it can be said: 'See, we're all not Eton/Roedean graduates; most of the students here come from working-class and middle-class families'. Such a phony cop-out! Obviously, there's more room for just accommodating the sons and daughters of the wealthiest 5% of the British population. Ever ask yourself why the top 5% of the economic ladder makes up 45% - 60% of most colleges at Oxbridge, while they take only .02% of places at most of the Redbricks? You see similar trends at the other unis thought reserved for the posh who couldn't get into Oxbridge, such as Durham, Bristol, UCL, Kings, LSE. But go to the Universities of Liverpool, Sheffield, Birmingham, and Manchester, and nary a PR speaking, boarding school, 'Father works in the City and my horse's name is Cuddles' type can be found. Mind you, a number of the students will be graduate of 'independent schools', but there is a world of difference between a modest fee-paying, provincial, day school compared to super elite boarding schools like Eton, St Swithun's, Winchester or Roedean. Graduates of these places either head to Oxbridge or the select alternates mentioned. If they have serious money than they go to the Ivy League in America or perhaps one of the swish universities in Switzerland or France.
    I wasn't aware one could do an 'MA' at Oxbridge - they hand them out for free don't they.

    They take the best candidates. The issue is simply that the school system is not that good. Generally speaking a well qualified 'working class' candidate has a good chance of getting in, and the numbers of 'state school' students, according to the media are rising. In my opinion you are talking a load of ill informed rubbish on this issue.
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    (Original post by Nelly Yuki)
    The OP's been reading too much of the Daily Mail...
    *Daily Fail
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    I wasn't aware one could do an 'MA' at Oxbridge - they hand them out for free don't they.
    On the contrary, mine cost £5 and the fee has since doubled.
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    I wasn't aware one could do an 'MA' at Oxbridge - they hand them out for free don't they.

    They take the best candidates. The issue is simply that the school system is not that good. Generally speaking a well qualified 'working class' candidate has a good chance of getting in, and the numbers of 'state school' students, according to the media are rising. In my opinion you are talking a load of ill informed rubbish on this issue.

    ...And in my opinion you are believing the nonsense and lies these elitist snobs are trying to feed the public. Don't be a company man; think for yourself.
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    (Original post by sydney_watts)
    ...And in my opinion you are believing the nonsense and lies these elitist snobs are trying to feed the public. Don't be a company man; think for yourself.
    You are a troll, I don't believe you have ever set foot in either one in statu pupillari. Let alone doing a non-existent MA.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    On the contrary, mine cost £5 and the fee has since doubled.
    Still, the point remains that one cannot 'do' an MA at Oxbridge. £10, hmm I'll have to think about ordering one of those
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    (Original post by Azarimanka)
    You are a troll, I don't believe you have ever set foot in either one in statu pupillari. Let alone doing a non-existent MA.

    I didn't feel like writing out, M.Phil, so what? The majority of Americans on here (and they do make up the majority, believe it or not) have no idea what an M.Phil is, and I, myself, am of the opinion it sounds pretentious.
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    (Original post by sydney_watts)
    I didn't feel like writing out, M.Phil, so what? The majority of Americans on here (and they do make up the majority, believe it or not) have no idea what an M.Phil is, and I, myself, am of the opinion it sounds pretentious.
    M,Phil happens to the be name of the degree. Not my problem if you think it is pretentious, it's a good name. Your 'experience' strikes me as being of little value - which college do you attend?
 
 
 
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