Why are children admitted into university in the UK?
A lot of students start university in the UK at the age of 18, some are even younger. While they might not be children legally once they hit 18, I would like to argue that UK students are, on average, too young to start university.
I base my argument on three points:
Please note that I am generalising here: There are always 18 year-olds who are more mature, intellectually capable, and dedicated to study than some 25 year olds, but the overwhelming majority is not. And then you have 18 year-olds who mentally resemble 14 year-olds...
In my home country, students are usually 20 when they start higher education; it used to be 21 for boys before mandatory military or social service was scrapped a few years back.
I started university at age 21 and did not feel a day too old to make an informed, forward-looking decision with regard to my choice of degree, and to approach this chapter of life with the sincerity and dedication it demands and deserves. My maturity upon graduation has helped me greatly in the job world and served me well in achieving things that I doubt would have been able to achieve two/three years earlier.
Going back to university for postgraduate study after having worked for over two years only confirmed my notion that higher education becomes the more valuable the more mature you are; I enjoyed, got more out of, and thrived in my Master's degree way more than in my Bachelor's.
I base my argument on three points:
•
Choice of subject
At 17 or 18, you are too young to decide on a study/career path that will decide a sizeable chunk of the course of your life. You won't have seen enough of the world and talked to enough people to make a fully informed decision on what field you want to get into. You will most likely be directed by ulterior motives and go for what your friends do/what sounds cool/what promises to pay the most/what you can study at your local uni. You are still too much of a child to grasp the impact that this choice will have on your life.
•
Getting the most out of the course
At such young age, people are simply too immature to fully take advantage of what a university course has to offer. Intellectual capabilities won't be developed yet to the degree of a few years later, students are often not taking the course seriously and prefer to party/enjoying living away from home.
•
Maturity at graduation
When Brits graduate and enter the professional world at around 21, they are simply not fit to thrive in demanding industries and contribute strongly to business success. Communication skills will most likely not be fully developed, and confidence and assertiveness will be sub-par. Looking at it this way, sending students to university at a rather young age is also harming the British economy.
Please note that I am generalising here: There are always 18 year-olds who are more mature, intellectually capable, and dedicated to study than some 25 year olds, but the overwhelming majority is not. And then you have 18 year-olds who mentally resemble 14 year-olds...
In my home country, students are usually 20 when they start higher education; it used to be 21 for boys before mandatory military or social service was scrapped a few years back.
I started university at age 21 and did not feel a day too old to make an informed, forward-looking decision with regard to my choice of degree, and to approach this chapter of life with the sincerity and dedication it demands and deserves. My maturity upon graduation has helped me greatly in the job world and served me well in achieving things that I doubt would have been able to achieve two/three years earlier.
Going back to university for postgraduate study after having worked for over two years only confirmed my notion that higher education becomes the more valuable the more mature you are; I enjoyed, got more out of, and thrived in my Master's degree way more than in my Bachelor's.
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Hmm, of your 3 bolded points I'd say
1) At no point could you argue you are "informed enough" as to what you want to do with the rest of your life. We should be encouraging children to choose a path earlier, too many are lost in a sea of "potential opportunity" that they fail to seize the day. Its never too late to change your plans, but sitting on the fence until your 29 because "you don't know what you want to do with your life" isn't any better either.
2) Again, if a kid is smart enough to be rocking his further maths A level at 15 and wants to go to Uni at 16, who's to say he can't get more out of University than an 18 yr old "YOLOSWAG" douchebaby...
3) They younger you are when you first start working the better. I fail to see how someone graduating at 19 will be inherently worse off in a working environment than someone who has a couple more years under their belt.
You accept that you are generalising. But I think the issues you raise are solved in other ways than simply saying "They are too young to handle this". Like making university courses less academic and more vocational for example. It all really depends on the purpose of the degree.
1) At no point could you argue you are "informed enough" as to what you want to do with the rest of your life. We should be encouraging children to choose a path earlier, too many are lost in a sea of "potential opportunity" that they fail to seize the day. Its never too late to change your plans, but sitting on the fence until your 29 because "you don't know what you want to do with your life" isn't any better either.
2) Again, if a kid is smart enough to be rocking his further maths A level at 15 and wants to go to Uni at 16, who's to say he can't get more out of University than an 18 yr old "YOLOSWAG" douchebaby...
3) They younger you are when you first start working the better. I fail to see how someone graduating at 19 will be inherently worse off in a working environment than someone who has a couple more years under their belt.
You accept that you are generalising. But I think the issues you raise are solved in other ways than simply saying "They are too young to handle this". Like making university courses less academic and more vocational for example. It all really depends on the purpose of the degree.
Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil
-
To be honest, I think if someone's like you describe at age 18, they shouldn't be going to university full stop. I for one, know exactly what I want to do, and have wanted to do since I was about 8, and I know I have multiple other options at the end of my degree if that doesn't work out. I am dedicated to my choice, and I will certainly make the most out of my degree, which I will aim for a first in. The third point, I don't feel fully qualified to answer, however, regardless of how you look at it, without experience you will struggle in competitive industries regardless of your age. This is an argument for starting Uni earlier, so you can therefore leave earlier and gain experience quicker. I certainly don't want to waste 2 or 3 years of my life waiting to go to university. So, I agree with you to a certain extent, many 18 year olds are unsuited for university at that age, however, the majority of students that should be going to university will be ready at that age imo.
(edited 10 years ago)
You are not too young to decide when you need to get a job soon. Because the sooner you start working the bigger your pension. I don't see why 18 year olds can't make that decision and there is always post graduate courses as well and no one is forcing anyone to go to uni. What would be the point of going later because I don't see how you could fill the time up.
I don't know where you live, but in my country and most European countries actually, we start uni at 18, unless we choose to put it off for some reason. What do you do during the 3 years after high school and before uni?
What would you have people do in the gap between school and uni? I doubt we could afford to keep them in full time education, and there aren't enough unskilled jobs to go round pre-graduates, working students and non-graduates.
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Original post by alexmagpie
What would you have people do in the gap between school and uni?
Original post by SakuraBlossom
What do you do during the 3 years after high school and before uni?
Original post by ladynova
What would be the point of going later because I don't see how you could fill the time up.
Who said that you need to sit around between school and university?
Instead, have kids start school a year later (getting into school at 7 instead of 6 also makes a huge difference to how well the kid can learn), have another year of high school (less stress, more that you can learn), and maybe a year of social service or internships. Only then you will be fully prepared to make this choice.
Original post by SakuraBlossom
I don't know where you live, but in my country and most European countries actually, we start uni at 18, ...
I highly doubt that.
Original post by AeneasBK
1) At no point could you argue you are "informed enough" as to what you want to do with the rest of your life. We should be encouraging children to choose a path earlier, too many are lost in a sea of "potential opportunity" that they fail to seize the day. Its never too late to change your plans, but sitting on the fence until your 29 because "you don't know what you want to do with your life" isn't any better either.
1) At no point could you argue you are "informed enough" as to what you want to do with the rest of your life. We should be encouraging children to choose a path earlier, too many are lost in a sea of "potential opportunity" that they fail to seize the day. Its never too late to change your plans, but sitting on the fence until your 29 because "you don't know what you want to do with your life" isn't any better either.
I do think there is such a point. It takes some time to learn about the nature, specifics, demands and rewards of different professional fields, maybe the odd summer job or internship as well. Of course the exact time cannot be pin-pointed but I highly doubt it has been reached when you're 17 or 18 - and you've probably missed it if you haven't made up your mind either when you're 29.
Original post by AeneasBK
2) Again, if a kid is smart enough to be rocking his further maths A level at 15 and wants to go to Uni at 16, who's to say he can't get more out of University than an 18 yr old "YOLOSWAG" douchebaby...
2) Again, if a kid is smart enough to be rocking his further maths A level at 15 and wants to go to Uni at 16, who's to say he can't get more out of University than an 18 yr old "YOLOSWAG" douchebaby...
Agreed - but like I said, this would be the exception. It's also not really the point. Compare how a 20/21 year-old would approach uni and uni life to how an 18 year-old would.
Original post by AeneasBK
3) They younger you are when you first start working the better. I fail to see how someone graduating at 19 will be inherently worse off in a working environment than someone who has a couple more years under their belt.
3) They younger you are when you first start working the better. I fail to see how someone graduating at 19 will be inherently worse off in a working environment than someone who has a couple more years under their belt.
I disagree. Starting to work too young will only get you frustrated (because you are not taken seriously, will not be trusted with responsible tasks, etc.) and thus hinder your professional progress. Entering the professional world as a seasoned adult will open many more doors.
Germany was just wayy too slow with everything man. They've now actually adapted to the British system: They cut public school education in most states from 13 to 12 years, plus no military service. Thus, at present, its at most a year's difference, and I doubt a year makes any impact on maturity.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil
Who said that you need to sit around between school and university?
Instead, have kids start school a year later (getting into school at 7 instead of 6 also makes a huge difference to how well the kid can learn), have another year of high school (less stress, more that you can learn), and maybe a year of social service or internships. Only then you will be fully prepared to make this choice.
Instead, have kids start school a year later (getting into school at 7 instead of 6 also makes a huge difference to how well the kid can learn), have another year of high school (less stress, more that you can learn), and maybe a year of social service or internships. Only then you will be fully prepared to make this choice.
Why do you assume every member of society wants to do social service and internships? For most people that has absolutely no bearing on what they want to do in the future. The legal requirement to go to school until 16 means people who don't want to go to university don't have to stay in school and can start a profession early that does not require A levels or University education. Like creative arts I even know a guy who left to become a tattooist and is doing an apprenticeship in a shop, and another of my friends is pursuing photography at a big firm, vocational courses, building, childcare, apprenticeships etc etc.
Also what makes you think working in social service will make someone more informed to decide what they want to do in life. I would absolutely hate wasting my time in social services for a year when that is not what I want to do and no one else I know out of my entire sixth form has any interest in social services bar afew, most people don't want to work in social services so your suggestion is completely insane.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil
Who said that you need to sit around between school and university?
Instead, have kids start school a year later (getting into school at 7 instead of 6 also makes a huge difference to how well the kid can learn), have another year of high school (less stress, more that you can learn), and maybe a year of social service or internships. Only then you will be fully prepared to make this choice.
Instead, have kids start school a year later (getting into school at 7 instead of 6 also makes a huge difference to how well the kid can learn), have another year of high school (less stress, more that you can learn), and maybe a year of social service or internships. Only then you will be fully prepared to make this choice.
Since when do people start school at 6? I started at 4. (As does everyone over here afaik)
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by ladynova
Why do you assume every member of society wants to do social service and internships? For most people that has absolutely no bearing on what they want to do in the future.
Wrong. It shows that you are from a country where these things have no tradition. In fact, they very much help you decide whether a chosen career path is right for you - or to select one in the first place.
Original post by ladynova
The legal requirement to go to school until 16 means people who don't want to go to university don't have to stay in school and can start a profession early that does not require A levels or University education.
I am not even speaking about jobs that do not require a degree. People are free to do what they like after school. Taking up a job or apprenticeship at age 16 does require neither the long-term commitment nor the intellectual abilities that enrolling in a university course does. I am not arguing that all young people should be forbidden to make life-changing decisions, I am merely arguing that 18 is too young to enter university.
Original post by Appeal to reason
Since when do people start school at 6? I started at 4. (As does everyone over here afaik)
Even worse then...
I think where our system perhaps goes awry is in requiring specialisation at 16, this through the fining down to three (often closely related) subjects. In no other country in the West could an 18 year old say "I fancy studying X at university but I don't have the right subjects for it".
Students in the US follow a far broader and more balanced curriculum to the end of high school and even in the first two years of university, where they are not required to nominate a major until going into the third year (and still this will be the major subject of theirdegreeand not the only one).
The advantage of the British system is that the early specialisation requirement facilitates the providing of quality degrees in three years, as opposed to the four typically taken elsewhere, because these students hit the ground running. But it does mean that students are having to choose which doors to close to themselves when only 16.
Students in the US follow a far broader and more balanced curriculum to the end of high school and even in the first two years of university, where they are not required to nominate a major until going into the third year (and still this will be the major subject of theirdegreeand not the only one).
The advantage of the British system is that the early specialisation requirement facilitates the providing of quality degrees in three years, as opposed to the four typically taken elsewhere, because these students hit the ground running. But it does mean that students are having to choose which doors to close to themselves when only 16.
Original post by ladynova
Why do you assume every member of society wants to do social service and internships? For most people that has absolutely no bearing on what they want to do in the future. The legal requirement to go to school until 16 means people who don't want to go to university don't have to stay in school and can start a profession early that does not require A levels or University education. Like creative arts I even know a guy who left to become a tattooist and is doing an apprenticeship in a shop, and another of my friends is pursuing photography at a big firm, vocational courses, building, childcare, apprenticeships etc etc.
Also what makes you think working in social service will make someone more informed to decide what they want to do in life. I would absolutely hate wasting my time in social services for a year when that is not what I want to do and no one else I know out of my entire sixth form has any interest in social services bar afew, most people don't want to work in social services so your suggestion is completely insane.
Also what makes you think working in social service will make someone more informed to decide what they want to do in life. I would absolutely hate wasting my time in social services for a year when that is not what I want to do and no one else I know out of my entire sixth form has any interest in social services bar afew, most people don't want to work in social services so your suggestion is completely insane.
This. Work in social services is the biggest waste of life I could imagine. OP is also ignoring that Germany does this purely to keep wages in the industry low, and tries to sell it by saying its an experience that will shape your life. Students in Germany also use that year mainly becasue they have no idea what they want to do, and think it looks good on the CV. Nothing to do with maturity or anything.
I think there are plenty of people who know exactly what they want to do at that age, so there should be no reason why they could not go to university at age 18 (or 17 in Scotland, right?).
If someone does not know what to do, they should not apply to university and certainly not go "for the sake of it". That seems to be a factor which isn't really taught in colleges as they want all their students to go to university.
It is, however, beneficial to go to university at an early age because of this lack of maturity. Young people typically have less to worry about, such as having families, running a house or paying off great big bills. It's easier for them to dedicate their time fully to university, and it may help them to secure better grades overall.
If someone does not know what to do, they should not apply to university and certainly not go "for the sake of it". That seems to be a factor which isn't really taught in colleges as they want all their students to go to university.
It is, however, beneficial to go to university at an early age because of this lack of maturity. Young people typically have less to worry about, such as having families, running a house or paying off great big bills. It's easier for them to dedicate their time fully to university, and it may help them to secure better grades overall.
I 100% agree with you. I am 17 (18 in 2 months) and I'm supposed to be making my university application in a few months. The problem is I still don't know what I want to do in life. I picked subjects I regret now and would have picked a completely different route now if I had another chance. I don't even feel old enough to be going to university next September, I still feel like a little kid dependent on my parents on everything.
I have a lot of problems with the British higher education admissions process also. At 15/16 you are already taking exams (GCSEs) which universities will look at later on admitting you to university. I'm sorry but at this age most people just pi$$ about at school and don't take exams seriously (I personally did but the majority of people don't) not even thinking of the consequences. Then at 16 you only get to pick 4 subjects for A level and I understand that at this point they expect you to have an idea of what you want to do in life and know what subjects you will need but again at this age you are too young to know. Not to mention you don't even know if you will be able to cope with the A levels you picked because GCSEs are so easy you have the wrong impression of the subject difficulty. (eg people getting A's in GCSE maths and then ending up with D's or U's at A level because the content is so much harder) I think A levels should be taken in all core subjects so you have a clear idea of the difficulty and can make an informed decision whether you can manage with studying it to degree level. And you would get a wider choice of courses at university because someone who only picked science A level subjects won't be able to do humanities at university even if they changed their mind as to what they want to do in life.
Also upon university application you are expected to have completed work experience in the field you want to go into. But who is going to give a 16 /17 year old a work placement? It is incredibly difficult finding one at such a young age. Not to mention, you make a university application after the first year of A levels before you even know your A level exam results. You know your AS level results but you have no way of knowing how your second year exams will turn out. And it's ridiculous that universities make you offers before they even know your grades! Take this for example: Two people taking the same subjects both got ABBB at AS level. One of them gets rejected and the other gets a conditional offer but he needs to get AAB overall. The one who gets the offer does badly in his second year exams and gets BCC but the guy who got rejected worked hard in his second year and got AAA. So the uni has made the wrong decision, because it's impossible to predict what grades someone is going to get. The AAA person applies through clearing and secures a place but in August, a month before going away to university. This is just unnecessary hassle and had they applied after getting their results the uni would be able to give the place to the guy who got better grades. Now this is a true story and the point of it is that I think we should only apply to university after receiving out A level results otherwise it's just pure chance whether you get the grades you uni is asking for or not.
Ok this is a bit long and I've still not said everything I wanted to say I'm just ranting because I really don't like this system. I agree at such a young age you are too young to make decisions and sit exams that will impact the rest of your life. That's me throwing my two cents in.
edit: I just read "cambio wechsel's" answer and it's exactly what I was trying to say! We should be following a broader curriculum like in the US up until high school so then when it comes to picking a university course we have all options open.
I have a lot of problems with the British higher education admissions process also. At 15/16 you are already taking exams (GCSEs) which universities will look at later on admitting you to university. I'm sorry but at this age most people just pi$$ about at school and don't take exams seriously (I personally did but the majority of people don't) not even thinking of the consequences. Then at 16 you only get to pick 4 subjects for A level and I understand that at this point they expect you to have an idea of what you want to do in life and know what subjects you will need but again at this age you are too young to know. Not to mention you don't even know if you will be able to cope with the A levels you picked because GCSEs are so easy you have the wrong impression of the subject difficulty. (eg people getting A's in GCSE maths and then ending up with D's or U's at A level because the content is so much harder) I think A levels should be taken in all core subjects so you have a clear idea of the difficulty and can make an informed decision whether you can manage with studying it to degree level. And you would get a wider choice of courses at university because someone who only picked science A level subjects won't be able to do humanities at university even if they changed their mind as to what they want to do in life.
Also upon university application you are expected to have completed work experience in the field you want to go into. But who is going to give a 16 /17 year old a work placement? It is incredibly difficult finding one at such a young age. Not to mention, you make a university application after the first year of A levels before you even know your A level exam results. You know your AS level results but you have no way of knowing how your second year exams will turn out. And it's ridiculous that universities make you offers before they even know your grades! Take this for example: Two people taking the same subjects both got ABBB at AS level. One of them gets rejected and the other gets a conditional offer but he needs to get AAB overall. The one who gets the offer does badly in his second year exams and gets BCC but the guy who got rejected worked hard in his second year and got AAA. So the uni has made the wrong decision, because it's impossible to predict what grades someone is going to get. The AAA person applies through clearing and secures a place but in August, a month before going away to university. This is just unnecessary hassle and had they applied after getting their results the uni would be able to give the place to the guy who got better grades. Now this is a true story and the point of it is that I think we should only apply to university after receiving out A level results otherwise it's just pure chance whether you get the grades you uni is asking for or not.
Ok this is a bit long and I've still not said everything I wanted to say I'm just ranting because I really don't like this system. I agree at such a young age you are too young to make decisions and sit exams that will impact the rest of your life. That's me throwing my two cents in.
edit: I just read "cambio wechsel's" answer and it's exactly what I was trying to say! We should be following a broader curriculum like in the US up until high school so then when it comes to picking a university course we have all options open.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by purple_panther
I 100% agree with you. I am 17 (18 in 2 months) and I'm supposed to be making my university application in a few months. The problem is I still don't know what I want to do in life. I picked subjects I regret now and would have picked a completely different route now if I had another chance. I don't even feel old enough to be going to university next September, I still feel like a little kid dependent on my parents on everything.
[...]
[...]
If you don't know, should you really be applying? Wouldn't it make more sense to find out what you really want to do in life first? You can go to university any time, it doesn't have to be straight away.
Also, I don't think the universities really cared too much about GCSEs. Obviously they need to be decent in grade, but I don't think my subjects were ever a factor in my application. Typically it's just English and maths, and maybe 5 other A*-C grades for most universities.
Regarding work experience, that is usually not required either. I did no work experience in my field before going to uni. I think it might be different for medicine, but most people go because they liked the prospectus and not because they had real-world experience in that field. You shouldn't worry about it.
It just sounds like a classic case of unnecessarily panicking. If you don't have the grades, then try and get them. Resit GCSEs if you need to, or do more years of college if you think you'd be better off on a different course. You could even do a foundation year, or maybe not even go to university at all. You have many decades to decide what you want to do, so why rush it right this very second if you're not sure?
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