Why does everyone seem to hate communism? Watch

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-aTOMic-
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#21
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There can never be a communist 'state' because communism requires all states to be one, removing any nationalism. That's me being anal, though.

The above cannot be reached. An unforeseen global catastrophe could not break down society enough that all human beings live as one, under one state, with resources shared equally amongst the population. We instinctively are competitive, ambitious and feel entitled to what we own - a social and economic hierarchy is human nature.
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Octohedral
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#22
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There's a deeply held resentment in America in particular - I think it's historical grudges more than logic, but there's also long been a history of 'a man gets what he work for', stemming from cowboy times. Half the people there don't even want free healthcare because they don't want to subsidise someone else's. Of course, communism's trial runs haven't helped it.

Other than that, I seriously doubt any such state would last more than a generation without military enforcement or some outlet for personal freedom. Or possibly artificial hormone control for the 16-25s. People aren't born to live like that.
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Theflyingbarney
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#23
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There are two main categories of opinion against communism. One is the ignorant view that seems to be held by a lot of Americans - that 'communist' is some sort of synonym for 'a liberal politician who is inept and/or malevolent'. Hence the hordes of anti-Obama moaners who constantly call him a communist despite him being no such thing. I think this view is mainly as a result of the number of wars or almost-wars America has been in with communist countries (mainly Vietnam and Russia), which means it tends to crop up a lot in popular culture and the communists are almost always on the bad/losing side.

The more intelligent view is not so much one of hating communism, but realising that as a system of government it simply doesn't work in practice. There are very few 'communist' states today and even those that brand themselves as such are more often dictatorships or single-party regimes where in fact everyone is equally downtrodden bar a small minority who hold most of the power. It remains to be seen how true and pure communism would function but I suspect in a state with anything more than a couple of million population, or any state where there is any real cultural diversity, that nothing would get done and inevitable conflict would arise.
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The Angry Stoic
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#24
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Even uncorrupted it is evil. Why should a man who works harder and takes more risks than others not be able to reap the rewards? By depriving people the ability to own property and goods you are deprived personal freedom to better your life. What is the point of working harder if you get nothing from it?

It forces equality at the expense of liberty and even then doesn't actually achieve equality. It just forces equal circumstances on everyone.

Plus it doesn't work.
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CelticSymphony67
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#25
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Communism is great in theory, but has never, and will never work in practice. Look at North Korea, that is the last true bastion of Communism, and it is a hellhole.
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-aTOMic-
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#26
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(Original post by saluege)
The problem is not greed. Humans are also generous. The problem is that in a capitalistic society you have to be greedy to survive. Place kids in a properly implemented socialist society and their views will be drastically different. They will be less likely to be greedy because in the society they grew up in they did not need to be greedy to survive. Before imperialism and states formed people around the world were socialist in nature. Hunter and gatherers worked together as a community because they wouldn't go far if they were selfish and greedy. I am not saying we should all go back to being hunter and gathers but saying people are inherently greedy and selfish is inaccurate.
Greed is being misconstrued as ambition, a human insinct. We all strive to better ourselves and the futures of our children. I think the word greed comes in to the equation because people who have not achieved the same success feel it owed to them by those who have and therefore the rich are guilty. You aren't aware of how they came to that position, but your sense of entitlement immediately makes you think they don't deserve that wealth.

Which brings me on to my next point. You admire the stage of Hunter Gatherer in your post and part of you would like a similar system - which is not possible. There's a reason why we are still not at that stage (and it's 'stage' for a reason) because humans are ambitious. Some of those in the Hunter Gatherer stage felt the urge for power and control, perhaps they believed they had more worth, and so we have capitalism.
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Ripper-Roo
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#27
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(Original post by saluege)
The problem is not greed. Humans are also generous. The problem is that in a capitalistic society you have to be greedy to survive. Place kids in a properly implemented socialist society and their views will be drastically different. They will be less likely to be greedy because in the society they grew up in they did not need to be greedy to survive. Before imperialism and states formed people around the world were socialist in nature. Hunter and gatherers worked together as a community because they wouldn't go far if they were selfish and greedy. I am not saying we should all go back to being hunter and gathers but saying people are inherently greedy and selfish is inaccurate.
Humans are not so much 'greedy' as they are self-interested. I don't believe it to be greedy to want to keep the things you've earned, as greedy mainly implies negative. However, it is a natural instinct to want to work for yourself, reap rewards for hard work/risk and own private property. Humans can be generous but this shouldn't be forced upon them and declare anyone who wants to keep money as 'selfish' and 'evil'.
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AntiMonarchist
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#28
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
I should've known 'work harder' and 'human nature' would come up on the first page.

Not a commentary on people's opinions. Just an observation of a pattern.
I think many people have the opinion that it is not fair to work harder than someone else for the same reward. People like a meritocracy.


And for all you commies out there don't start *****ing to me about how capitalism is just as bad, as I am fully aware of the problems of cronysim and the like.
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SuperHanss
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#29
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A lot of people student aged resonate with Communists and have Che Guevara posters in their rooms. Then, gradually with age, they naturally become more conservative and hateful of Communists.

The idea of Communism is very good but also flawed because it insists that there should never be a leader - which of course there always has to be and will be in society. Karl Marx perfectly articulated the view of the working classes and the problems of the inherent bourgeoise.

Still though, there's never been a truly 'Communist' state. Mao Zedong in China and Pol Pot in Cambodia probably came closest but the likes of Lenin and Stalin and the North Korean 'Eternal leaders' didn't fully understand the principles of what they believed in, fell to paranoia and greed and frankly contradicted themselves by leading decadent lifestyles whilst demanding no one else does.

The biggest problem with Communism is that, to achieve it, there would have to be revolution and to have revolution would mean inevitable bloodshed (which no one wants). People are too apathetic.
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lucas13
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#30
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because it doesn't work, if you try to take rich people's money away they'll just move it abroad
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Marco1
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#31
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(Original post by saluege)
Do you even know what communism is about?
Yes. Do you? What part of what I wrote would prompt you to ask that of me?

Your view of communism seems biased or narrow. I offered you something of value to consider. You don't have to like it or agree, but if you haven't got a proper response it is better to say nothing. Communism's social manifestation is far from utopian and egalitarian. Even the brilliant Karl Marx's political philosophy is essentially an economic theory, not a prescription for social harmony in action.
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MrCJH
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#32
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It really isn't a life to be lived; imagine working everyday perhaps twice as hard as your co-workers with no hope of advancement. No matter how intelligent you are or how skilled of a worker you are never will you achieve anything. The state may succeed but you as an individual will certainly not.
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KratoSilVieres
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#33
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Thank you guys, the comments were all throughly read and appreciated, Communism does seem perfect but it doesn't help the person who works harder then the person who can do jack all, greed and corruption also come into the factors which I'm starting to dislike, I understand I still have a small view but hoping to look it up some more, next I will make a thread asking what is fascism and is it good
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Moosferatu
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#34
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#34
Hmm...

If it can't work, what about the Amish in America? And the Jewish kibbutz system?
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ChocoCoatedLemons
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#35
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(Original post by KratoSilVieres)
Thank you guys, the comments were all throughly read and appreciated, Communism does seem perfect but it doesn't help the person who works harder then the person who can do jack all, greed and corruption also come into the factors which I'm starting to dislike, I understand I still have a small view but hoping to look it up some more, next I will make a thread asking what is fascism and is it good
Hang on, I'll save you some time - Fascism = bad. Always bad. Don't even go there.
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c.a1979
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#36
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I oppose it ideologically.

I think provided all receive equal opportunities, then that's the best that can be done. I don't really believe in economic equality. It's *******s IMO. Not that I believe people deserve to be poor, however I think that ensuring equal outcomes makes little sense. Luck, chance, natural ability, and being at the right place at the right time are important factors in life, which may seem unPC but it's true.
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Aj12
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#37
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(Original post by saluege)
Communism as described by Marx and Engels says nothing about freedom of speech. You are just regurgitating the propaganda by US and UK governments during the cold war. I do however agree with the failed attempts to implement communism causing countless loss of life but the same can be said about capitalism causing countless loss of life through wars and ongoing suffering. The problem with past attempts to implement communism is that they were in a hurry to achieve it. They decided to trade time for the lives of their citizens. Then again I could see why. The powerful capitalist minorities around the world were just too hostile towards socialism. On the other hand capitalism had plenty of time to develop with no opposition.
Hardly, I've studied communism, albeit I haven't looked at it in a couple of years, it hardly helps that Marx was pretty vague on how to get to transit from socialism to communism, it would just sort of happen. On a small scale it's a good system, but is unlikely to ever work on a macro level. I doubt given all the time in the world it could work.

Been years since I've looked at this stuff though
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Barksy
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#38
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People aren't too fond of it because it doesn't work and has killed millions of people.

"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
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Academic Warrior
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#39
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#39
People who work hard and are intelligent should be rewarded accordingly-communism doesn't allow this.


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sugar-n-spice
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#40
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Even in theory it's a horrible idea; robbing people of their right to own businesses and such for themselves, and generally improve their position.
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