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Why does everyone seem to hate communism?
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Original post by chickenonsteroids
Largely because it's misunderstood. Many of the examples of communism we see in history weren't communist states. Your post shows a misunderstanding too because Marx never intended communism to start in poor countries but in countries with a super abundance of materials. So places like the united states were expected to fall first to communism.
If you have 2 of the biggest mass murderers in history as pioneers for communism then people are going to hate the ideology regardless of how you try to present it.
If you have 2 of the biggest mass murderers in history as pioneers for communism then people are going to hate the ideology regardless of how you try to present it.
Like Russia for example?
Original post by Greenlaner
Like Russia for example?
Russia didn't have a super abundance of materials like America did when it was first implemented. Plus it didn't go through a capitalist stage.
I don't know, it couldn't possibly be due to the hundreds of millions of people that were wiped out by Communism, or the hundreds more millions which were forced into poverty by it, or shot while trying to leave it. That must have been lovely. And I'm sure everybody's sorrow is immense at the loss of brutal, imperialist dictatorships like the Soviet Union, or genocidal tyrannies like the Khmer Rouge or the Viet Cong or the CCP (actually, that still exists). They were just great, weren't they. What a sad loss it has been since 1989, the fall of that dividing line between moderate, powerful, free, meritocratic civilisation in the East, and murderous, undemocratic tyranny in the West. Actually, if you're a bit dense, I may have got that the wrong way round.
There are just too many reasons to hate Communism; it's like hating Hitler. It's been tried and tested, we know it's a villain, and we know we want it nowhere near our precious, capitalist democracies. So please, if you want Communism, go and set up your own little Communist dictatorship, but preferably on a planet not visible from our solar system.
There are just too many reasons to hate Communism; it's like hating Hitler. It's been tried and tested, we know it's a villain, and we know we want it nowhere near our precious, capitalist democracies. So please, if you want Communism, go and set up your own little Communist dictatorship, but preferably on a planet not visible from our solar system.
Original post by KratoSilVieres
Okay so I'm new to Politics and very interested, I know I could look all over the internet but I guess I wanted a direct answer from the people of TSR.
What is so bad about communism?
...
What is so bad about communism?
...
From a Marxist perspective - and based on orthodox anthropological understanding of human history - humans have spent 99% of their existence as a species living in conditions of 'primitive communism' i.e. as communities of hunter-gatherers. Not only is communism nothing new to us but it is by far the way of life most familiar to us at the meta-historical level. Technological advances have brought about social changes generating a series of different 'modes' - industrial capitalism being the most recent example. But there's little to support the idea that capitalism will be the last mode humans live under (it is neither economically nor socially stable, nor environmentally sustainable) and good reason to think something else will have to replace it and why not what we might call 'technological communism'? It's also worth bearing in mind, and I believe already mentioned in the thread, that Marx did not advocate communism as a form of statism, indeed of the little he said about what communism would be he at least claimed its exisence would be identified by the absence of a state.
It's inherently un-democratic
There is no motivation to work hard
There is no competition which leads to poor standards
Less innovation
Some people always end up more equal than others
People are never going to be equal, even if they earn the same wage for example some will have nicer jobs, some will have better looking girlfriends, some will have nice houses etc
There is no motivation to work hard
There is no competition which leads to poor standards
Less innovation
Some people always end up more equal than others
People are never going to be equal, even if they earn the same wage for example some will have nicer jobs, some will have better looking girlfriends, some will have nice houses etc
I'm starting to like dislike communism to, I think it's a nice idea, but you'd if your a doctor you'd be equal to a murderers who now sells tools at a tool shop etc, I think to get success you must earn it, communism will help those who are lazy but not those who work hard everyday, it will mean labour wouldn't be as active and maybe not as well constructed as before, thank you guys for your replies. Greed is everywhere, we may be seen equal but sooner or later a person will want power, that's my basic knowledge and thanks to everyone who contributed.
Original post by KratoSilVieres
I'm starting to like dislike communism to, I think it's a nice idea, but you'd if your a doctor you'd be equal to a murderers who now sells tools at a tool shop etc, I think to get success you must earn it, communism will help those who are lazy but not those who work hard everyday, it will mean labour wouldn't be as active and maybe not as well constructed as before, thank you guys for your replies. Greed is everywhere, we may be seen equal but sooner or later a person will want power, that's my basic knowledge and thanks to everyone who contributed.
how about pedophiles like Michael Jackson who got away with that thanks to the best lawyers and were still earning millions
Original post by AndrewL96
It takes money from those who do well and give it to those who do badly, in theory.
how can you believe society is made of the good and the bad.People who have power and money will exploit the people who work for them and not because they are worse than the workers.Only because it's good for them
Original post by Tigers
how about pedophiles like Michael Jackson who got away with that thanks to the best lawyers and were still earning millions
He's a scumbag and I don't see why people cherish him, but yes, it does upset me when I see this kind of stuff, him a scum earning millions, and with the help of the best lawyers, Michael was messed up, I don't know so much about it and I doubt he innocent, and sure there a loads of this of issues, but there are also people who have worked there socks off to get them where they are, have a stable life because they weren't lazy if you get what I'm saying, and if he was to be seen as the same as a robber you know that'd be unfair. But I agree, Michael Jackson was a paedophile with money, but the way he earned his money was through his hard work of singing, but why should Michael Jackson a paedophile be equal to say someone who has no money and lets say his example to make a stable living is by doing crime, but doesn't and actually works in the supermarket etc, helping his family out to
Just change humans way of thinking and communism would work. It probably is more likely work in third world countries than in first world countries were greed and capitalism is truly part of live.
Original post by KratoSilVieres
He's a scumbag and I don't see why people cherish him, but yes, it does upset me when I see this kind of stuff, him a scum earning millions, and with the help of the best lawyers, Michael was messed up, I don't know so much about it and I doubt he innocent, and sure there a loads of this of issues, but there are also people who have worked there socks off to get them where they are, have a stable life because they weren't lazy if you get what I'm saying, and if he was to be seen as the same as a robber you know that'd be unfair. But I agree, Michael Jackson was a paedophile with money, but the way he earned his money was through his hard work of singing, but why should Michael Jackson a paedophile be equal to say someone who has no money and lets say his example to make a stable living is by doing crime, but doesn't and actually works in the supermarket etc, helping his family out to
there are no jobs in which you can be lazy.If he had to use normal lawyers he would have gone to jail.So you have a pedophile free and lawyers earning a lot of money for helping a paedophile.How can that be right
Because it's a frustratingly optimistic idea, but completely unworkable in a society which has people of varying work ethics and intelligence.
Technically, it is possible in isolated circumstances where technology has not advanced, in tribes they had/have relatively equal distribution amongst communities despite all having different roles - I suppose it's because they aren't encouraged to be an individual though, rather part of a grand scheme.
However despite that, humans have slowly become socially conditioned to see materialism and wealth as a sense of betterment and happiness (I am no exception to that rule). Also, the idea of state and community above the individual has gone terribly out of fashion and until you manage to reinforce that as a collectively credible idea then communism is impossible.
Another reason why people hate it is because of the acts under the name of communism in China and the Soviet Union. However, if you take that as a reason to hate communism then I can only presume you were brainwashed to think like that in the Cold War.
Technically, it is possible in isolated circumstances where technology has not advanced, in tribes they had/have relatively equal distribution amongst communities despite all having different roles - I suppose it's because they aren't encouraged to be an individual though, rather part of a grand scheme.
However despite that, humans have slowly become socially conditioned to see materialism and wealth as a sense of betterment and happiness (I am no exception to that rule). Also, the idea of state and community above the individual has gone terribly out of fashion and until you manage to reinforce that as a collectively credible idea then communism is impossible.
Another reason why people hate it is because of the acts under the name of communism in China and the Soviet Union. However, if you take that as a reason to hate communism then I can only presume you were brainwashed to think like that in the Cold War.
Original post by ihatebrownbread
Just change humans way of thinking and communism would work. It probably is more likely work in third world countries than in first world countries were greed and capitalism is truly part of live.
I think they tried it during the Cold War and it didn't work out so good. Angola, Ethiopia, etc...
Original post by Tigers
there are no jobs in which you can be lazy.If he had to use normal lawyers he would have gone to jail.So you have a pedophile free and lawyers earning a lot of money for helping a paedophile.How can that be right
Even being a cleaner is quite hard work, however the worker could decide to be lazy, i.e not cleaning properly.
Regarding Jackson it's disgusting no doubt, he didn't deserve to walk free, his lawyer however got to the top of there trade I reckon, I don't know he could have started up as a normal one who worked so hard to get to where he was and a lawyer is needed for a fair trial, and the lawyer was doing his job, it is unfortunate, but it doesn't happen for every single millionaire you know, not all them are disgusting paedophile, just like not all poor people are lazy, and if you not lazy and have the right motivation you can be successful.
Original post by KratoSilVieres
Even being a cleaner is quite hard work, however the worker could decide to be lazy, i.e not cleaning properly.
Regarding Jackson it's disgusting no doubt, he didn't deserve to walk free, his lawyer however got to the top of there trade I reckon, I don't know he could have started up as a normal one who worked so hard to get to where he was and a lawyer is needed for a fair trial, and the lawyer was doing his job, it is unfortunate, but it doesn't happen for every single millionaire you know, not all them are disgusting paedophile, just like not all poor people are lazy, and if you not lazy and have the right motivation you can be successful.
Regarding Jackson it's disgusting no doubt, he didn't deserve to walk free, his lawyer however got to the top of there trade I reckon, I don't know he could have started up as a normal one who worked so hard to get to where he was and a lawyer is needed for a fair trial, and the lawyer was doing his job, it is unfortunate, but it doesn't happen for every single millionaire you know, not all them are disgusting paedophile, just like not all poor people are lazy, and if you not lazy and have the right motivation you can be successful.
it's their job but in these cases they use dishonest methods to win and earn money.If they were honest they couldn't save the rich and would earn less.NHS doctors can decide to not work properly and be lazy too.If you have the right motivation and you are not lazy,owners will exploit this in their favour.A 21 year old died after a 72 hour shift for Bank of America
The technological conditions in which a communist society could exist have yet to arrive. The 'communist' revolutions of the 20th century were well meant but too sudden and unstable. They have done far more bad for the cause of the liberation of the masses than they have done good simply because a communist society is based on consensual wealth distribution, and the infrastructure of the early 20th century was far too basic to allow truly decentralised government. This lead to the growth of oppressive regimes which were anything but communist, but used the feeling of mutual support the ideology connotes to unite their populations.
It is the advent of the internet which will catalyse the next wave of wealth distribution. As the poor gain more knowledge, and crucially a greater ability to communicate and organise en masse, inevitably the question of why such a minuscule proportion of the population control so much of the worlds wealth will arise, and the answer wont leave the masses contented. This is what Marx envisaged when he set out the principles of communism; a collective and well organised demand for control of their own produce by the workers.
It is the advent of the internet which will catalyse the next wave of wealth distribution. As the poor gain more knowledge, and crucially a greater ability to communicate and organise en masse, inevitably the question of why such a minuscule proportion of the population control so much of the worlds wealth will arise, and the answer wont leave the masses contented. This is what Marx envisaged when he set out the principles of communism; a collective and well organised demand for control of their own produce by the workers.
Original post by Tigers
it's their job but in these cases they use dishonest methods to win and earn money.If they were honest they couldn't save the rich and would earn less.NHS doctors can decide to not work properly and be lazy too.If you have the right motivation and you are not lazy,owners will exploit this in their favour.A 21 year old died after a 72 hour shift for Bank of America
If they are top lawyers, why'd they need to use dishonest methods, and is there any proof of it?
Yes, but NHS workers have spent a lot of time dedicating themselves to education, and a dedicated person like that, can also dedicate themselves to work commitment, maybe that is true, owner exploiting will make you work overtime to, which isn't nice, but if say you could get paid for working overtime then isn't it fair, if you didn't want to, then it is unfair and the person should be made to.
I don't know what kind of banker the guy was, but yes I hear a lot about his kind of bankers being made to work over time which is unfair, and the worker who exploited him should be ashamed, but it is a very demanding job, never the less, 72 hours sleep is not good, he needed a rest.
1. While yes, most communist societies such as Russia and Vietnam are failures, a small amount of other communist societies like Cuba have a functional and even flourishing economy, and really only fails due to the states lack of trade with communists2. The Cuban economy gets around this problem with actual differences in payment, but the inability to invest of tycoon with that money due to a dual currency economy 3. This is the real reason I believe communism is impossible, humans are an extremely flawed species and can't really live in harmony 4. Refers to point 2
Original post by KratoSilVieres
Okay so I'm new to Politics and very interested, I know I could look all over the internet but I guess I wanted a direct answer from the people of TSR.
What is so bad about communism?
You could benefit the poor if you split the money ( which i guess is what rich people may disagree with and argue they have earnt it) but it also shows that people are equal.
One thing I'd say it that people may think that Communism would fails as one person would always wanted to take control.
But what are the issues surrounding, doesn't it work in poor country, Chavez improved Venezuela a little bit from what I believe, even if it's a little he still helped those in poverty?
What is so bad about communism?
You could benefit the poor if you split the money ( which i guess is what rich people may disagree with and argue they have earnt it) but it also shows that people are equal.
One thing I'd say it that people may think that Communism would fails as one person would always wanted to take control.
But what are the issues surrounding, doesn't it work in poor country, Chavez improved Venezuela a little bit from what I believe, even if it's a little he still helped those in poverty?
Both socialism and communism have proven themselves far inferior to social democracy or plain capitalism (i.e. government has proven itself inferior to the market at generating prosperity). There is not a single nation which has enriched itself by moving to socialism but plenty which have essentially stalled their development (Argentina, Cuba, Venezuela).
Around 1900 Argentina was becoming so wealthy that it had a Harrod's, it's position made it a focal point of trade at the time.
Until the 1970's Venezeula's oil wealth gave it one of the highest GDP per capita's in the world. Then it threw out all foreign firms and nationalised everything. Chavez was elected in response to the flatline (he blamed the west on all their problems) and bar a totally unrelated rise in the oil price globally (we were ~$150 a barrel a year ago) the country has just gotten ever worse.
Cuba was a similar story but for differing reasons. It was basically the Las Vegas of the Carribean and a millionaire's playground before the revolution at which point it abolished private property rights (restored in 06). It went from having a GDP per capita on par with Italy to one which is below the global average. It's only success is that of all the communist nations, it has managed to stop its people starving or being homeless.
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