Is the Labour Party right wing? Watch

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Eloquai
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#21
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#21
(Original post by thesabbath)
sociologically and culturally they're off-the-scale Left, Marxists
What do you make of the abolition of Clause IV then?
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Drewski
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#22
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#22
Like most of the main political parties, they're fuselage.


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Neither left nor right wing, and with politicians ultimately best described as empty tubes
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Observatory
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#23
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#23
'Wings' are relative. People who are well to the left of Labour may say that Labour is right wing, especially if they want to shift the norm more towards their own extreme position. People to the right of the Conservatives say that the Conservatives are left wing.

Labour is left relative to the British median and the Conservatives are right relative to the British median, but neither are very far from the median so any outlier is going to see both parties looking much the same.
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MollyFarmiloe
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#24
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#24
Over the years, and especially since 1945 when Atlee's landslide victory marked the way for mass political parties, the three main parties in the UK have started to take up the middle ground in Politics because British Politics has become less about ideology and more about gaining government office. Parties now tend to use the "catch all model" where instead of appealing to only one section of society, they intend to have a wider voter appeal in order to win votes, and therefore policies have become less ideologically orientated, and more focused to impress the media and the wider section of society- which tends to be centrally or neutrally politically.
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MollyFarmiloe
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#25
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#25
(Original post by Eloquai)
What do you make of the abolition of Clause IV then?
The abolition of Clause IV was a clear sign of Labour surrendering a large part of their original ideology and instead embracing the changes within society and their political beliefs Thatcher, and hence sacrificing their ideology, they were successful under Blair, but as soon as Brown made an attempt to shift the party back to the left, Labour was out of office once again.
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Eloquai
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#26
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#26
(Original post by MollyFarmiloe)
The abolition of Clause IV was a clear sign of Labour surrendering a large part of their original ideology and instead embracing the changes within society and their political beliefs Thatcher, and hence sacrificing their ideology, they were successful under Blair, but as soon as Brown made an attempt to shift the party back to the left, Labour was out of office once again.
Indeed. Arguably, it was a watershed moment in which pragmatism came ahead of founding principles with the Party beginning its slide towards neo-liberal centrist politics. It had been doing so for a while, but that was definitely when the veil came down.

I'm very curious to see what the user who believes that Labour are off the scale Marxists believes it represents.
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Moosferatu
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Barksy)
He's saying what half the electorate think.
If that is true, then half the electorate are mentally deficient. Marxists!?!? Bahahahahahahahaha!
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Barksy
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#28
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#28
(Original post by Moosferatu)
If that is true, then half the electorate are mentally deficient. Marxists!?!? Bahahahahahahahaha!
The Labour Party is well known for being influenced by Marxism. I don't find it that funny.
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Moosferatu
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Barksy)
The Labour Party is well known for being influenced by Marxism. I don't find it that funny.
Well that's the great things about opinions isn't it?
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Alex-Torres
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#30
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Well they deregulated the banks, which isn't the usual left-wing motto.

Tony Blair didn't reverse any of the right-wing Thatcherite policies.

He also introduced university fees for students.
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anarchism101
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#31
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#31
(Original post by thesabbath)
sociologically and culturally they're off-the-scale Left, Marxists, determined to deconstruct and render irrelevant every aspect of this country's history, tradition, social structures and nationhood
Yes, because social and cultural left-wing positions obviously include supporting the monarchy, supporting an established church, promoting religious schools, and not supporting gay marriage until the Tories brought it up, right?

in order to usher in their open bordered multicultural egalitarian utopia
The EU open borders agreement was in the Treaty of Maastricht, which was passed by the Major government, not Labour.
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UnderPost
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#32
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#32
(Original post by SpiggyTopes)
On a global scale they're very left wing, on a UK scale they're slightly left wing. On an English scale they're left wing, on a Scottish and Welsh scale they're slightly right wing probably.
Haha - love this definition because it's soooo true! (but I'd say that by now, they are not even left wing on an English scale).
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anarchism101
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#33
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#33
(Original post by MollyFarmiloe)
The abolition of Clause IV was a clear sign of Labour surrendering a large part of their original ideology and instead embracing the changes within society and their political beliefs Thatcher, and hence sacrificing their ideology, they were successful under Blair, but as soon as Brown made an attempt to shift the party back to the left, Labour was out of office once again.
In what way did Brown "attempt to shift the party back to the left"? Virtually all the Blair government's economic policy was Brown's stuff anyway.

Brown lost because i) apart from the initial 1997 landslide, New Labour had never really been popular - just less unpopular than the Tories, ii) he didn't have the PR savvy that Blair had, whereas Cameron (unlike Hague, IDS and Howard) did, and iii) he was holding the economic bomb when it went off.

Seriously, though, Brown wanted to be head of the IMF ffs. That pretty much refutes any suggestion of him being left-wing.
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anarchism101
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#34
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#34
(Original post by Barksy)
The Labour Party is well known for being influenced by Marxism. I don't find it that funny.
Well known by who?
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felixb
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#35
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#35
Centre. Democratic politics is all about appealing to what will get the most votes regardless of what can be considered correct... it's mainly centre-right wing middle class people who vote, so thats where policy is aimed.
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username207685
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#36
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#36
All three of the major parties are neoliberal. They are all right wing to varying degrees. They all implement broadly similar policies - that's why when Labour were in power the Tories pledged to match spending pound for pound, and now the Tories are in power Labour have pledged to follow the austerity plan. Their politics were historically quite different, so Labour still has to sound like they care about the working class, and the Tories still have to sound like they care about the free market, but they broadly want the same things.

If you want a government to pass neoliberal legislation while telling you it will defend the vulnerable, vote Labour. If you want a government to pass neoliberal legislation while telling you it will protect the economy, vote Tory.
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Ripper-Roo
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#37
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#37
(Original post by anarchism101)
Post-Blair, Labour have basically been the party of 'Thatcherism with a human face', which is why Blair got elected three times; as hated as he was, people hated the Tories (then still the 'nasty party') more. Since Cameron became Tory leader, the Tories have essentially adopted the Blairite model, leaving Labour at a bit of a dead end.

To give an example: in the days of Old Labour, Labour were always considered the more Eurosceptic of the two main parties. Euroscepticism was considered a mostly left-wing position. Now British politics has moved to the right and hit the other extreme; the Tories are now considered the more Eurosceptic of the two, and Euroscepticism is considered a mostly right-wing position.
Why are the Conservatives actually considered the 'nasty party'? A bit pathetic.
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anarchism101
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Ripper-Roo)
Why are the Conservatives actually considered the 'nasty party'? A bit pathetic.
It wasn't what other people called them, it was what the party called itself. Or to be more accurate, it was what the more moderate Tories called the unrepentant Thatcherites and social conservatives that held sway in the party at the time.
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Izzyeviel
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Barksy)
The Labour Party is well known for being influenced by Marxism. I don't find it that funny.
I don't think privatization is a Marxist idea...

(Original post by betaglucowhat)
All three of the major parties are neoliberal. They are all right wing to varying degrees. They all implement broadly similar policies - that's why when Labour were in power the Tories pledged to match spending pound for pound, and now the Tories are in power Labour have pledged to follow the austerity plan. Their politics were historically quite different, so Labour still has to sound like they care about the working class, and the Tories still have to sound like they care about the free market, but they broadly want the same things.

If you want a government to pass neoliberal legislation while telling you it will defend the vulnerable, vote Labour. If you want a government to pass neoliberal legislation while telling you it will protect the economy, vote Tory.
:clap2:
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lachachacha
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#40
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#40
ahaha, no. They're just stupid left wingers.
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